Apple Still Facing Criticism Over Warranty Issues in Europe as Lawsuits Spread to More Countries

[Matt McHeck]

I am sure a few people will already have said this:
There is a difference between the warranty you get from the manufacturer or reseller and the warranty under EU law.

I am no professional in this legal stuff, so the details I'm about to state may not be 100% correct.

However I see it also a bit as a problem in the terms used. In English, afaik there is only the term "warranty". In German, there are two different terms. The manufacurers/resellers warranty is called "Garantie" and covers issues and defects that may occur after the purchase. Typically two years, many resellers in Germany extend the period to three years.
The warranty under EU law is called "Gewährleistung" and covers defects that already existed by delivery. And it is only within the first six months that the reseller/manufacturer needs to prove otherwise. After six months, it is the customer who needs to prove that an issue was already existant by the moment of delivery, and most of the time this will lead into having someone write an expert opinion which of course then will make the whole issue a matter of time and money.

So within Germany, Apple Care seems to be a wise choice (though there are solutions by third party insurances that come cheaper). However, as many other manufacturers give two oder more years of Garantie to begin with, Apple really does seem greedy.

 

[Gasu E.]

We pay higher prices mostly due to taxes not this.

Then you are getting a pretty good deal.

 

[Brian Y]

What a bunch of BS! FACT is that Apple tried to let consumers believe that the legal warranty only counts for 1 year, and tried to persuade consumers to buy Apple Care during the period that you're still under legal warranty. That's called screwing people over.

If that was the case, then why have they published a page on their website telling you exactly how long the warranty is, and what you need to do to claim under any circumstances.

People don't need spoon feeding everything. You know, the rules that apply to Apple products in the EU also apply to everything else you buy, whether it has an extended warranty offered or not. Answer these questions honestly:

- how many times have you been offered an extended warranty when buying an electrical product
- how many times have you been informed about your consumer rights when buying something?

You know why - because the first option is a choice. You can choose to have Apple, as a manufacturer, provide coverage above and beyond your legal warranty (especially if you didn't buy it from Apple, then Apple have no legal responsibility at all).

The second option is the law. It's there whether you're told about it or not.

Plus, if you're in the EU, and you bought it from Apple, and you can prove that the fault that was there when you purchased it if it's over 6 months old (a key difference between consumer law and Apple's warranties - you legally need something like an independent report to prove it), they will repair it.

 

[charlituna]

Apple Care is a pretty good deal. I walked home with a brand new 30" monitor, 3 years after I bought the first one.

But Apple do misrepresent it when selling products. Particularly in the stores. They often claim that without Apple care, a one-year warranty is all you can expect.

This is simply not true - and does not match EU law.

So you would rather that they match the
EU law which only covers defects present at purchase and (in most countries) its in you to prove it if its more than 6 months after purchase.

Rather than Apple covering anything that's not damage, on products they made regardless of the shop you bought it at, regardless of when the issue turned up.

In other words, you want folks to have less potential protection (since proving something was present at delivery but didn't cause a visible issue for 6 + months is basically impossible)

----------

What a bunch of BS! FACT is that Apple tried to let consumers believe that the legal warranty only counts for 1 year, and tried to persuade consumers to buy Apple Care during the period that you're still under legal warranty. That's called screwing people over.

So you have secret video/audio footage from multiple occurrences that Apple staff said that LEGALLY there is anything. And not what they likely said which was that's Apple warranties the products they make for 1 year.

And yet you are keeping this proof to yourself.

 

[Gasu E.]

WHAT are you talking about ?

Check Samsung UK warranty page.... and check how many products have 12 months warranty!
http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/warranty/warrantyInformation.do?page=POLICY.WARRANTY

Then the store that sells them needs to cover for the other year for the EU minimum of 2 years.

No on the second point. If it's EU, it gets Samsung support. From that very page:

"Samsung Electronics (UK) Ltd support a product purchased in Europe if it has an EU Bloc Warranty. This warranty is present where the top of the product warranty card clearly states 'European Bloc'. "

 

[AppliedMicro]

Nor is there any proof that Apple has a legal obligation to spell out for each and every customer in detail what their local legal rights are with every sales transaction.

Then why (and what for) were they were fined by Italian authorities?

"Apple Sales International, Apple Italia Srl and Apple Retail Italia were fined "for not providing clear information to customers on product assistance," the report said.

Specifically, Apple was fined 400,000 euros for not providing adequate information to customers about the length of product guarantees"

http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/12/27/italy_fines_apple_1_2m_for_unfair_commercial_practices

 

[silvetti]

No on the second point. If it's EU, it gets Samsung support. From that very page:

"Samsung Electronics (UK) Ltd support a product purchased in Europe if it has an EU Bloc Warranty. This warranty is present where the top of the product warranty card clearly states 'European Bloc'. "

Again, NO. What you just quoted does not support what you are saying. That is for the supported warranty, 12months, 24, etc... depending on the product.

And that SAMSUNG UK only supports Europe bought products, not US bought for example. Well they will try but they cannot guarantee the outcome.

 

[Carniphage]

So you would rather that they match the
EU law which only covers defects present at purchase and (in most countries) its in you to prove it if its more than 6 months after purchase.

I want them to not misrepresent the truth.

 

[zin]

How exactly?

So they're supposed to say "if this breaks down, you have a 2 year warranty with the seller, but you need to prove there was an inherent fault if it breaks after 6 months" when you buy something.

Where have you EVER heard that said? It's the law, not a service. You should know the law in your own country.

The point is Apple was attempting to make the suggestion that only AppleCare, a paid service, would be your only form of warranty after the AppleCare one-year warranty ended.

I'm not sure if it is still there, but there was a big graphic explaining AppleCare on the Apple website. It clearly showed that all service options included in the product price ended after one year, and that out of service repairs would be subject to a fee. This is a lie and an attempt to profit from the misinformed.

The point is not that people did not know of warranty law, but that Apple tried to exploit this fact.

 

[Brian Y]

Again, NO. What you just quoted does not support what you are saying. That is for the supported warranty, 12months, 24, etc... depending on the product.

And that SAMSUNG UK only supports Europe bought products, not US bought for example. Well they will try but they cannot guarantee the outcome.

You're right, that quote means that the UK branch of Samsung will only support EU products. It also relates to them as a manufacturer, not the seller, so they can state whatever warranty they like as they have no legal responsibility.

As the seller, they have this rather uninformative page: http://www.samsungdirect.com/uk/service/warranty

 

[alfistas]

Lets not generalise too much...

I had an ipod touch 4th gen which I bought in February 2011. When the home button and rear speaker started acting up last Christmas I had them both replaced by Apple free of charge. IMHO there is really no need for Applecare in Europe.

 

[AppliedMicro]

So you have secret video/audio footage from multiple occurrences that Apple staff said that LEGALLY there is anything. And not what they likely said which was that's Apple warranties the products they make for 1 year.

There's no need for any "secret video/audio" footage.

Apple has, for years, offered their AppleCare extended warranties on their European online stores without mentioning any statutory warranty, including using their nice little red/white "three years instead of one (90days) 'protection'", effectively tricking many consumers into believing* they'd get just one year of (whatever) warranty, unless they purchased AppleCare.

And they rejected and still reject warranty claims from customers by stating their one year warranty policy unless the customer explicitly refers to applicable statutory rights.

* Granted, it's debatable if and to what extent failure to mention statutory consumer rights constitutes illegal misrepresentation of products. But European authorities apparently seem to have become increasingly leaning towards the latter notion, lately.

 

[unplugme71]

Apple should just raise the prices each year to cover costs of the law suits. Eventually people will stop bitching when they can't afford it

 

[AppleFan1984]

When will we get a two-year warrant in the States?

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

If people in the EU need to be handheld to buy an extended warranty it certainly explains why they are having so many financial problems over there.

The problems came from the U.S.:

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007–2008#Subprime_lending

Subprime lending

During a period of intense competition between mortgage lenders for revenue and market share, and when the supply of creditworthy borrowers was limited, mortgage lenders relaxed underwriting standards and originated riskier mortgages to less creditworthy borrowers. In the view of some analysts, the relatively conservative Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSEs) policed mortgage originators and maintained relatively high underwriting standards prior to 2003. However, as market power shifted from securitizers to originators and as intense competition from private securitizers undermined GSE power, mortgage standards declined and risky loans proliferated. The worst loans were originated in 2004–2007, the years of the most intense competition between securitizers and the lowest market share for the GSEs.

U.S. subprime lending expanded dramatically 2004–2006
As well as easy credit conditions, there is evidence that competitive pressures contributed to an increase in the amount of subprime lending during the years preceding the crisis. Major U.S. investment banks and government sponsored enterprises like Fannie Mae played an important role in the expansion of lending, with GSEs eventually relaxing their standards to try to catch up with the private banks. A contrarian view is that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac led the way to relaxed underwriting standards, starting in 1995, by advocating the use of easy-to-qualify automated underwriting and appraisal systems, by designing the no-downpayment products issued by lenders, by the promotion of thousands of small mortgage brokers, and by their close relationship to subprime loan aggregators such as Countrywide.

Read the full article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007–2008

 

[salacious]

my iphone 4s battery dies when out in the cold, my phone is a few months out or warranty (apples so called 1 year manufacturer warranty) I phoned them up yesterday asking for a free battery replacement as the battery is faulty, they asked me for £55, I stated the fact that i live in the UK and that their 1 year warranty meant nothing to me as being a previous I.T technician in my old job we took back faulty ipads, iphones, MBP's back to the stores over their 1 year warranty and had free replacements with no applecare whatsoever, they still denied me a free replacement, so i called back to a different team and finally got through to someone who had a bit of decency to them, after i explained that i had 2 kids and paid over £2,400 for apple products i refused to pay for a battery as under the uk warranty sceheme and sales of goods act that i was legally covered as i had been using the phone as normal with no damage whatsoever and that the battery fault had been inherent from when i first got the phone, aswell as the fact that when the phones in my pocket sometimes the screen stays black and the battery heats up really really hot almost burning me.

im going to the applestore on wednesday to get it checked out, then if theres no damage on thursday i get a replacement IPHONE! FOR FREE no applecare no nada! so the lesson is kids to keep calling trying different people distress your situation say your not happy, etc etc...

now i have to call up carphone warehouse because the other iphone i bought for the missus has a microphone problem which is incredibly annoying, i have a feeling they will try to make me pay... NOT GONNA HAPPEN.. also i bought her phone on my credit card anyone know if i have a right to claim back from the credit card company?

 

[Vip]

Look chaps the solution is simple

Don't buy from Apple Store, buy from say John Lewis or any other reputable store (substitute for any reputable store in any other country in EU). Then use the 1 year warranty with apple if you have a fault, the second year go to the store if there is a fault and they are 100% obliged to give you a refund or replacement.

The problem only arises in the second year if you buy directly from Apple - so don't - SIMPLE!

 

[Gasu E.]

I think many people are missing the point over this.

1. Apple is trying to maintain uniform world-wide support policies. That makes it easier to centralize support. Setting up a system that checks against different warranty policies depending on where you bought the product can certainly be done, but doing this would require significant effort and costs, which Apple hasn't taken on yet. Not surprising given their overwhelming growth-- I am sure they are struggling with the extreme growth demands of their internal business systems.

2. In Apple's market segments, warranty terms vary, but 1 year is certainly common. Some companies have tried to increase their product attractiveness by bundling longer warrantees, but Apple has likely determined that this wouldn't adequately increase their business. I realize this argument doesn't appeal to all of you, but that's how business is supposed to work.

3. As a result, Apple finds itself in the position of having to offer overlapping services-- the EU guarantee and the Apple standard and extended warrantees. AppleCare and the EU warranty are clearly NOT the same, but the EU warranty adds something to the standard Apple warranty that would otherwise be included in AppleCare. And that's the nub of the problem-- the one thing is SOME coverage for the second year.

4. I'm sure Apple understands this, and they are going to have to bite the bullet. The current solution-- to have a webpage articulating the differences-- was quick and dirty. The better solutions are going to have to be more far reaching-- and knowing what I do about corporate business systems, will not be easy. Here are what I see as the alternatives:
a. Create a special standard "EU warranty" of 2 years. That would require a modified "EU AppleCare" that is composed of 1 year extended warranty plus three full years of phone support. Costly and complicated.
b. Do a,. but world-wide. Much more costly, but less complicated.
c. Provide the three separate service level as currently, but greatly increase the breadth and prominence of communication. Cheap, but extremely complicated, and likely to muddle the core message Apple is trying to get out. For Americans, think of those TV drug ads, where you get beautiful images of happy healthy people while an attractive voice is flatly informing you of the drug's hideous side effects.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

WHAT are you talking about?

Apple.

Check Samsung UK warranty page...

That's your first error. We talk about Apple, not about Samsung.

 

[flat five]

Lawyers just love to sue Apple because Apple has money, that's all there is to this.

which means apple has enough money to afford better lawyers than themselves..

apple gets sued when they are doing illegal and/or abusive things..

 

[charlituna]

Apple is tricking people if they lie about the benefit of a product.

Apple store staff claim that Apple Care offers two additional years of cover, when in truth it is only one. .

First, where is your iron clad proof of what Apple staff is claiming. Seems to me that you a believing the reports which are often fifth hand and have no proof either way.

Second. Apple Care is (for computers) two more years of what Apple as the manufacturer of tens. It is not now nor has ever claimed to have jack to do with local laws including these 'lemon' laws

 

[derek4484]

Stupid EU

Maybe if Italy spent more time worrying about the state of their economy and less time worrying about if Apple is providing a good enough warranty they wouldnt have had to be bailed out by the EU.

 

[Gasu E.]

Again, NO. What you just quoted does not support what you are saying. That is for the supported warranty, 12months, 24, etc... depending on the product.

And that SAMSUNG UK only supports Europe bought products, not US bought for example. Well they will try but they cannot guarantee the outcome.

Ah, reading it again, I think I agree with your interpretation.

 

[Carniphage]

First, where is your iron clad proof of what Apple staff is claiming. Seems to me that you a believing the reports which are often fifth hand and have no proof either way.

I have had Apple staff, in store, say this to my face.

Listen, I have had great after sales care from Apple. I have had them replace devices with new for old, when there was no legal obligation to do so.

This is one reason why I am very loyal to the company.

But in this one area, they need to get their act together.

 

[Jazwire]

Get rid of AppleCare in Europe ,raise the price of the products by the price they would of paid for Apple Care in the US, that way they comply with stupid Euro laws.

And this is the reason why nanny state laws are stupid, they seem good in theory , until they actually dont work.
But the "lawmakers" appear like they actually care about the public, but they just end up doing Apple a favor and really hurt the customer because the cost of these dumb laws always get passed on to the customer in higher prices.