Apple Stores Will Continue to Require Masks for Now

[nathansz]

It's obviously not a cold, but this thing isn't what anyone thinks it is. The places with healthy, fit populations are barely even bothered by either sick or death stats

this is a callous and dangerous lie. you should be ashamed of yourself for continuing to try to spread this ********.

thousands of people around world are dying every day.

period.

and people like you, who try to make light of the situation, or convince others that it is not happening, or try to convince people not to try to help mitigate it, are partly culpable for some of these deaths

even people who are in perfect health otherwise get sick.

and die

why don't you answer some of the questions that have been put to you previously instead of simply introducing more outlandish claims

1) when you “beg [us] to look at the connections of the companies making the vaccines to the origin of the virus” what do you expect us to find?
2) what do you believe are the implication of these findings?
3) who are your wife and your phd friends?
4) and where do we find their guidance that pcr tests are being done incorrectly?
5) and if your point bringing up the topic of pcr testing was not to claim that covid is not as prevalent as many believe, then what was your point?

perhaps if you begin to answer some of the ridiculous claims that you have already made we can start to work our way through your new ones

 

[nathansz]

Your final point is a good one. The yellow vest protest (across the aisle, third position, progressive, traditional, anarchist, all of it) was essentially quashed.

i don’t think i’m making the point that you think i am

 

[I7guy]

Your final point is a good one. The yellow vest protest (across the aisle, third position, progressive, traditional, anarchist, all of it) was essentially quashed. I wonder this though, have you seen the John's Hopkins Event 201, which, three or four months before the pandemic officially kicked off in the media, the exact outline of every single detail, even protests, was detailed for the entire public. Every single thing we are doing now, including numbers, was outlined. The same is true for military procedures outlined the year before.

It's obviously not a cold, but this thing isn't what anyone thinks it is. The places with healthy, fit populations are barely even bothered by either sick or death stats (again, which obviously elide the truth) numbers, and those with insanely high population densities such as Hong Kong? 28 deaths? 7 millions people? There is no way to stuff that number down no matter how well you mask up or anything.

The thing we are in is not what we think it is.

The big death will happen very soon as meat production basically crashes and therefore so do entire economies and food scarcity wipes out loads of people. Even if I believed the media and governmental narratives, what we have done is kill generations of people thanks to the panic wars that will spring from this.

Ok.

A year ago, the vaccine passport was seen as a conspiracy theory.

It was? 20 years ago it was alleged that Bill Gates was reading your emails. Today it's pretty much a fact there is no privacy and someone could be reading your emails. A year ago, I thought the vaccine passport was probably the only way to end this. I guess some others took it as a conspiracy.

So was the great reset and many of the other things we now discuss normally today or even push. I challenge every person, no matter their political narrative, to look at this from an aloof vantage.

Ok.

It is not what we think it is.

It's exactly what we think it is. The issue is the statistics on the deaths don't take into account the journey to health for those who have gotten sick, who don't have a statistical probably of dying.

 

[shigzeo]

Ok.

It was? 20 years ago it was alleged that Bill Gates was reading your emails. Today it's pretty much a fact there is no privacy and someone could be reading your emails. A year ago, I thought the vaccine passport was probably the only way to end this. I guess some others took it as a conspiracy.

Ok.

It's exactly what we think it is. The issue is the statistics on the deaths don't take into account the journey to health for those who have gotten sick, who don't have a statistical probably of dying.

You have literally just explained and apologised for what was considered horrible overreach of power and/or impossible conspiracy just a little while ago. The boiling frog, who doesn't recognise his impending death, or who, through indolence, accepts a multitude of small changes until there is no where else to go. We could use this same logic to outline the necessity for colonialism, war, and anything else that upends things that existed previously.

It is insane (especially in this progressive and nuanced age) to think that there is only one way to achieve a goal, or only one goal, or only one way to solve an issue. Modernity has made retarded almost all narratives.

 

[I7guy]

You have literally just explained and apologised for what was considered horrible overreach of power and/or impossible conspiracy just a little while ago. The boiling frog, who doesn't recognise his impending death, or who, through indolence, accepts a multitude of small changes until there is no where else to go. We could use this same logic to outline the necessity for colonialism, war, and anything else that upends things that existed previously.

It is insane (especially in this progressive and nuanced age) to think that there is only one way to achieve a goal, or only one goal, or only one way to solve an issue. Modernity has made retarded almost all narratives.

OK. I don't agree with the above. There is no horrible overreach, there is no conspiracy. We are all attempting (as in all, society) to get back to some normalcy without sending people to the hospital or worse --- by continuing to spread covid.

 

[shigzeo]

OK. I don't agree with the above. There is no horrible overreach, there is no conspiracy. We are all attempting (as in all, society) to get back to some normalcy without sending people to the hospital or worse --- by continuing to spread covid.

And it wasn't a conspiracy to open Japan, or to create banana republics, or to remove religious leaders, all it is an effort to expand the free market and democracy! It doesn't matter that today all those ancient cultures are destroyed or hidden and that even the idea of self sufficiency aimed at the nation, is destroyed as international capitalism takes over. Not a conspiracy. It just is what it is, and this is the end of history as we know, so it is time for people to put away their primitive practices and embrace modernity.

And all we want is to save people from a pandemic that, depending on your honest, and political affiliation, and adherence to international finance and/or progressive notions of change or not, is either horrible and, like an invisible indo-aryan sky father, all powerful, or the opposite. Whatever.

What is clear is that we live in different realities.

 

[I7guy]

[...]

What is clear is that we live in different realities.

We have clearly different definitions of what a conspiracy entails, but I agree perception is reality.

 

[nathansz]

….

 

[nathansz]

….

 

[Karma*Police]

Yes, it's far less controversial. The authors themselves agree with my position on this and specifically say their work "should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections"-- and yet here you are.

You continue to use "statistically insignificant" like that gives you evidence of some sort. "Statistically insignificant" doesn't mean small, it means the evidence is not as complete as they'd like. It means you don't have sufficient data to form incontrovertible statistics-- in this case they only have 66% confidence that it reduces transmission instead of the 95% or whatever they would like to show.


The study you are quoting as evidence in support of your theory is, in fact, evidence against your theory. Not terribly strong evidence, but certainly compatible with the broader consensus that masks are beneficial. The authors don't endorse your view. What ever ad-hoc non-controlled study you're trying to form on the fly with first wave and second wave numbers has no scientific grounding.

I suspect if it wasn't for people willfully misinterpreting "statistically insignificant" to try and confuse the general public into thinking there was some doubt around masks, this study would have just found its way to the Annals of Unremarkable Studies.

Of course not. Based on their objectives, it would be irresponsible to make such a statement. Yet, their findings align with real world evidence which is what peers and reasonable people look for. Isn't that the purpose of scientific studies?

There is overwhelming evidence that their findings align with what we see in the real world... TX dropped their mask mandate months ago yet there's no difference from other states who kept their mask mandates. The Swedish population never wore masks, yet they fared better than many European countries that did institute mask mandates. Many countries (and US states) saw an explosion of Covid cases AFTER masks were mandated. A large population of healthcare workers contracted Covid even though they wore N95 masks, including everyone at my ex's clinic, even though they had ample supply of fresh masks.

As my doctor friend said, masks won't do a damn thing when you're in a highly virulent atmosphere. It gets through spaces around the mask and through your eyes. If you wear a cloth mask, which is what most people wear, it is the equivalent of putting up a chainlink fence to stop mosquitoes. Knowing that, does it really surprise you that masks did nothing to stop the spread?

Finally, if masks were so effective, why are the so-called experts (or in your words, "broader concensus") so confused themselves and making so many contradictory and inane statements about masks? The CDC basically admitted recently that masks don't work when they said that vaccinated people will no longer have to wear masks, knowing full well that there's no way to tell who was /wasn't vaccinated. Here's a great video that illustrates just how ridiculous this whole mask fiasco has become and why no reasonable person should be taking it seriously.

How much more real world evidence does anyone need to know that masks are ineffective and the whole thing was politicized? Kind of like how the CDC took the teacher's unions recommendations and made the same recommendations almost verbatim. A CDC official who was scapegoated for this lost her job, BTW. Considering even the most liberal states are now dropping mask mandates with zero negative impact, and anyone who gets vaccinated will no longer have to worry about who is or isn't wearing a mask, this whole mask argument is moot at this point.

 

[nathansz]

Swedish population never wore masks, yet they fared better than many European countries that did institute mask mandates.

sweden has much higher death rates and infection rates than it’s neighbours.

they currently have the highest daily case counts in all of europe

 

[nathansz]

Many countries (and US states) saw an explosion of Covid cases AFTER masks were mandated.

again, how do you know the situation would not have been even worse without masks

As my doctor friend said

everyone at my ex's clinic,

 

[I7guy]

[...]

How much more real world evidence does anyone need to know that masks are ineffective and the whole thing was politicized?[...]

A majority of authoritative opinions would do it. Not some anecdotal evidence.

 

[nathansz]

How much more real world evidence does anyone need to know that masks are ineffective and the whole thing was politicized?

politicized to what end exactly?

 

[Analog Kid]

There is overwhelming evidence that their findings align with what we see in the real world...

Yes. They found that masks most likely reduce transmission, and that is what we see in the real world.


If you think they found anything different than that, then you simply aren’t able to interpret primary source scientific data.

By the same token, if they actually had found anything different (they didn’t, but strictly as a hypothetical), then they’d be an anomaly among the scientific evidence.

This is a combination that makes people susceptible to being misled by conspiracy and misinformation sites— not understanding the science, and a willingness to put more weight in a minority outlier view than in the majority consensus.

 

[pdoherty]

Highly unlikely!

What's the science behind CDC's decision to say fully vaccinated people don't need masks? | CNN

A fresh batch of data from a big study of healthcare workers across the country helped prompt the CDC to say fully vaccinated people can go without masks in most circumstances, the agency said Friday.

www.cnn.com

...After weeks of telling people that even fully vaccinated people might carry virus in their noses, mouths or throats and breathe or spit it out onto others, the CDC says the evidence shows this is unlikely.
The reason -- viral load. At least three major studies have shown that fully vaccinated people are not likely to test positive for coronavirus, which indicates they are not carrying it in their bodies, whether they have symptoms or not.

Which stands to reason. People who’ve been vaccinated or who have caught and beat the virus (or both) have the antibodies that destroy the virus.

 

[dannyyankou]

Ok I think we're at a point now where everyone that wanted a vaccine could've gotten one (in the US at least). Vaccines have been extremely protective against severe illness, make the masks optional. If someone is unvaccinated without a mask, any severe illness they get they brought it on themselves.

 

[mollyc]

Ok I think we're at a point now where everyone that wanted a vaccine could've gotten one (in the US at least). Vaccines have been extremely protective against severe illness, make the masks optional. If someone is unvaccinated without a mask, any severe illness they get they brought it on themselves.

No actually the 12-15 year olds aren’t even eligible for their second dose yet, assuming they got the first dose on day one of eligibility. And for people with kids under 12 in their household, those kids are still at risk also.

 

[dannyyankou]

No actually the 12-15 year olds aren’t even eligible for their second dose yet, assuming they got the first dose on day one of eligibility. And for people with kids under 12 in their household, those kids are still at risk also.

Ok so do what other stores are doing, say unvaccinated people should still wear a mask and hope parents will make responsible decisions for their kids. You can only do so much. Yes there are going to be irresponsible parents, I’m not going to let them control my life.

 

[mollyc]

Ok so do what other stores are doing, say unvaccinated people should still wear a mask and hope parents will make responsible decisions for their kids. You can only do so much. Yes there are going to be irresponsible parents, I’m not going to let them control my life.

If any adult is still unvaccinated they are likely to stay that way. They will stop wearing their masks as soon as mandates are lifted, risking the health of children not yet old enough to be vaccinated.

at this point it’s a matter of about 4-6 weeks to get a critical mass of teenagers vaccinated. These are kids likely to be working in the public with summer jobs. Just keep indoor mask mandates a few weeks longer.

 

[Clix Pix]

IMHO everyone who is eligible for a vaccination should be required to provide proof of having been vaccinated, and if someone has not been vaccinated he or she should be required to wear a mask and flat-out be refused entry to facilities and participation in activities if he or she refuses to cooperate with that requirement.

Unfortunately, I have the all-too uneasy feeling that many, if not all, vaccine-avoiders are going to happily toss away their masks (if they ever bothered to wear one in the first place) and lie about their vaccination status if someone does ask -- and that definitely will cause significant issues, such as spreading infection among other unvaccinated individuals and possibly contributing to the development of new strains of the virus which might be resistant to the current vaccines available.

 

[Clix Pix]

Ok I think we're at a point now where everyone that wanted a vaccine could've gotten one (in the US at least). Vaccines have been extremely protective against severe illness, make the masks optional. If someone is unvaccinated without a mask, any severe illness they get they brought it on themselves.

The problem here is that the unvaccinated individual who chooses to skip the vaccination and run around without a mask is not only vulnerable to picking up a case of COVID-19 him/herself, he or she is also more than likely to spread it around, presumably unknowingly, to others, those who are legitimately unable to be vaccinated due to particular health situations or age. What about those innocent bystanders?

Sure, the vaccine-free maskless oblivious individual can happily attend a party or large gathering with a bunch of other mask-free adults who are also willfully ignoring the recommendations to be vaccinated and the whole gang can just go right ahead and spread the virus among themselves, with of course the risk of severe illness and even death. Fine, it could be said that they deserve what they get.

But what about the truly innocent people in all this, the adults who have health issues which preclude their being able to be vaccinated and therefore who are at risk each and every time they come into contact with an unvaccinated person? What about the young children who are not yet eligible for vaccination since a protocol hasn't yet been developed for those under a certain age? Should they have to pay the price?

 

[dannyyankou]

The problem here is that the unvaccinated individual who chooses to skip the vaccination and run around without a mask is not only vulnerable to picking up a case of COVID-19 him/herself, he or she is also more than likely to spread it around, presumably unknowingly, to others, those who are legitimately unable to be vaccinated due to particular health situations or age. What about those innocent bystanders?

Sure, the vaccine-free maskless oblivious individual can happily attend a party or large gathering with a bunch of other mask-free adults who are also willfully ignoring the recommendations to be vaccinated and the whole gang can just go right ahead and spread the virus among themselves, with of course the risk of severe illness and even death. Fine, it could be said that they deserve what they get.

But what about the truly innocent people in all this, the adults who have health issues which preclude their being able to be vaccinated and therefore who are at risk each and every time they come into contact with an unvaccinated person? What about the young children who are not yet eligible for vaccination since a protocol hasn't yet been developed for those under a certain age? Should they have to pay the price?

I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of this, but stubborn people aren’t going to get vaccinated no matter what. Should we all just continue wearing masks forever? I think responsible people who got vaccinated should at least be able to make their own choices.

by the way, where I’m from we are an honest bunch. We had like 99.9% mask compliance during the worst of the pandemic, and everyone I know who hasn’t been vaccinated is still wearing a mask.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of this, but stubborn people aren’t going to get vaccinated no matter what. Should we all just continue wearing masks forever? I think responsible people who got vaccinated should at least be able to make their own choices.

by the way, where I’m from we are an honest bunch. We had like 99.9% mask compliance during the worst of the pandemic, and everyone I know who hasn’t been vaccinated is still wearing a mask.

Agreed, people are going to do what people are going to do. I find it fascinating the intentional acts of ignorance. Well, more than fascinating, I find it sad because it's resulted in unneeded death but yeah, even in my own little sphere of family/friends - There are anti-vaxxers/people who think this virus is absolutely nothing at all. Meanwhile, we watch with sadness as Covid kill relatives left and right in South America.

I think there'll be a few who will change their mind but most have already made their mind up.

It's difficult sitting in a public space with relatives/friends loudly exclaiming how Covid is a joke, a fake event. Oh well.

 

[SnacksGU]

If you thought you may have wasted time and energy on this thread be encouraged you provided great entertainment. I only read page 17!