Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
All Apple needs to do is allow iOS devices to be computers. Like the Mac, let me install software I want, even if Apple doesn’t like the content.
I guess that goes for any electronic made. Let me do what I want. Telsa, open up your vehicle and let me install what I want. No different. And, when stuff breaks, Apple is on the hook to fix it.

Of course, why buy an iPhone in the first place? Buy Android device and do as you please. Android had great hardware out there.
 
Nope:


1711048226897.png
 
From what I recall, this was about iMessage being on Android. Honestly, Google and partners should have responded to iMessage with an equivalent service by 2013 if not earlier...certainly not waiting until 2020+ to try and shoehorn in something else.
Oh they tried, Google has spun up and abandoned at least 3 different chat platforms since then.

Apparently it’s Apple who has to lift up the industry, instead of the industry coming together to implement a REAL sms replacement (RCS ain’t it, and is essentially Google’s pet project).
 
This isn't the kind of suit that has a payout to a lawyer. The payoff here is political influence.
Not sure what you mean, and perhaps using both "payout" and "payoff" is not helping things.

My point, where I mention lawyers, is that this legal process will take years. Lawyers will be working full time on this for years. I'm not referring to a settlement, I'm simply talking about guaranteed employment for lawyers for several years.
 
Not so sure. They have come with a plan that they think will give them a chance to succeed. They are not going after Apple for being a monopoly, but for maintaining the monopoly in an anticompetitive manner. If you see the examples they have given, they are easy to prove technical stuff. What are the APIs available for AW and APIs available for 3rd party watches is clearly known. Same case with the others. They must have collected tons of data and sifted through them. The former AG says that the case against Apple looks damning because of the amount of data they have collected.
In some of their examples though, it doesn't come down to an API. Like having phone numbers tied to the watch and phone, which required negotiations with wireless providers to link ringing and the integration that iMessage provides (SMS and RCS are based on phone numbers, you cannot have a "username"). Or maintaining connections after turning off Bluetooth, they would need to create a new and specific API not just turn on something that is off. And the real solution to that would be for an open standard of maintaining connectivity through bluetooth when it is turned off for peripherals - which makes no sense to create. You'd be better off going after Apple for leaving it on when you asked to turn it off.
 
Apple hasn't build their user base alone. If that were the case the only Apps available for their platforms would be written by Apple.

And software developers are not entitled free access to any platform. Developers have been buying developer tools and licenses for general computing platforms since the beginning of the industry. But those costs were for access, and the general purpose platform owners didn't dictate unreasonable terms via a captive App Store.
It’s weird that the loudest voices on the costs are the massive developers with enough money for lobbyists and PR campaigns.

I’d imagine a kid developing an App appreciates they don’t have to set up a CDN and manage the hosting of Apps on their own…
 
  • Like
Reactions: rhett7660
Not sure what you mean, and perhaps using both "payout" and "payoff" is not helping things.

My point, where I mention lawyers, is that this legal process will take years. Lawyers will be working full time on this for years. I'm not referring to a settlement, I'm simply talking about guaranteed employment for lawyers for several years.
I know what you meant, but in a class action lawsuit they're going to make massive profits. Here, they will be paid their salary with the government and Apple respectively. The "profit" is political.
 
Oh they tried, Google has spun up and abandoned at least 3 different chat platforms since then.

Apparently it’s Apple who has to lift up the industry, instead of the industry coming together to implement a REAL sms replacement (RCS ain’t it, and is essentially Google’s pet project).
Oh I know, there's a graveyard full of them. But they never tied it to the phone number AND the IM from what I recall.
 
Nope:


View attachment 2361491
It doesn't actually matter that Apple doesn't want to help Android. They're a competitor. Harm to competitors is considered to be a natural part of the competitive process under Section 2. Proving harm to a competitor only = you lose the case. You have to prove harm to the competitive process.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Victor Mortimer
In some of their examples though, it doesn't come down to an API. Like having phone numbers tied to the watch and phone, which required negotiations with wireless providers to link ringing and the integration that iMessage provides (SMS and RCS are based on phone numbers, you cannot have a "username"). Or maintaining connections after turning off Bluetooth, they would need to create a new and specific API not just turn on something that is off. And the real solution to that would be for an open standard of maintaining connectivity through bluetooth when it is turned off for peripherals - which makes no sense to create. You'd be better off going after Apple for leaving it on when you asked to turn it off.
I think the APIs are already there that AW can access. For example, when a call comes, the watch rings because it accesses an API that directs the call from the phone to the watch (not sure if this is the way it is done). That API is not available for access by Android/Tizen watches. Same case with Bluetooth issue. The API that AW accesses to keep BT live may be different from the API that Apple provides to Android watches which is intentionally gimped. Just guessing.
 
People defending Apple understand this I think
They are feigning ignorance of what's actually being argued here
I understand perfectly well.

20% of smartphone users worldwide generate 60% of app revenue and 76% subscription revenue.

so basically people that buy iPhones spend not only more per user but more in total then a user base 4 times their number on Android.

that is why developers work on iOS rather then Android. Much better return on their work.

so not sure how can argue that apple is holding back the applications and subscriptions market with the App Store when there user base is the one driving the growth in those area’s.

where it is easy to see that other business want a larger slice of the revenue from consumers that purchased iPhones.
 
Since you keep saying that, do you buy iPhones solely because they are closed. That is, would you be as happy if you used an Android phone that was closed?
Yes. I do. And, if I didn't want that, guess I don't buy the product. I would prefer that I could install my software on a Tesla. But, that is not how the company sells the product. Not seeing the difference. If your force Apple to open this, then every electronic made should do the same. Which is crazy too.

I'm fine with people saying what they prefer other functiionality and asking Apple to make changes. But, to have the government step in and tell the company how to build its product is silly. Why not tell them that you want a 1 TB of storage as the standard too and I shouldn't have to pay for that. No different.

I have so many friends with Andrea devices. Seems like there are choices and no one is forcing people to buy iPhones. Apple has spent a good amount of time focusing their eco system and making that work. The numbers show it. That said, if they are blocking other manufacturers from entering the space, that is bad and should be punished.
 
Since you keep saying that, do you buy iPhones solely because they are closed. That is, would you be as happy if you used an Android phone that was closed?
Can I jump in and say that YES that is the sole reason that my personal phone and everyone in my family are in a closed ecosystem? Just as my entire enterprise at work is locked down and in its own ecosystem allowing only what has been curated. I have other platforms for openness, and those platforms are never as reliable.
 
Hinder them? Really? Opening the platform up isn't going to magically break how well all their devices work together. Total scapegoat argument.

The only argument that holds any weight is the privacy and security concerns.
ok... if apple is really evil I would not own their equipment and I have kept buying their equipment. I share apple's privacy and security concerns and would not change them...
 
DOJ is smart. It is not gunning for Apple because it is a monopoly. It is gunning for it because it is preserving the monopoly using anticompetitive tactics. That is how they are going to get Apple.
Like you say below, it's counterintuitive. They are being accused of being a monopoly (which has not been proven). To then prove they are abusing that monopoly.
Attorney General Merrick Garland cited a key principle of US antitrust law in today's news conference — one that is little-known but is a critical part of today's suit.

It is not illegal to hold a monopoly, Garland said.
Correct. Especially since they are not one. Mono (one). There is another option, Google Android. So, Duopoly would be the correct phrasing for Apple.
That may sound counterintuitive in a case intended to fight monopolies. But under US antitrust law, it is only illegal when a monopolist resorts to anticompetitive tactics, or harms competition, in an effort to maintain that monopoly.
"Having defined the relevant market as digital mobile gaming transactions, the Court next evaluated Apple’s conduct in that market. Given the trial record, the Court cannot ultimately conclude that Apple is a monopolist under either federal or state antitrust laws. While the Court finds that Apple enjoys considerable market share of over 55% and extraordinarily high profit margins, these factors alone do not show antitrust conduct. Success is not illegal. The final trial record did not include evidence of other critical factors, such as barriers to entry and conduct decreasing output or decreasing innovation in the relevant market. The Court does not find that it is impossible; only that Epic Games failed in its burden to demonstrate Apple is an illegal monopolist.
Case 4:20-cv-05640-YGR Document 812 Filed 09/10/21 Page 2 of 185"


Pretty sure you can't have a monopoly on the device. Since there are many other devices out there.
You should be able to have a monopoly on your operating system. I can't see how they will be able to go after them for that. The only other thing is the store. Which was proven to not be a monopoly or abusing it if it was.
I don't think they can claim Apple is abusing its monopoly if it isn't defined as one. I'm not a lawyer but, that wouldn't make sense to me. And in the court of public opinion. They would not get much support from the public to go after Apple with terms of "monopoly" and "abuse of power". Without having proven them as being one.

That is what the US Justice Department alleges Apple has done.

Among other things, the DOJ says Apple has used its control over iOS, the iPhone operating system, to block innovative new apps and cloud streaming services from the public; degrade how Android messages appear on iPhones; restrict how competing smartwatches can work with iPhones; and hinder rival payment solutions.


Edit: for clarity
Let's start with Android messages.
1) They communicate with each over fine via SMS and MMS. It works exactly how it has always worked. It isn't something you can force Apple or Google to make work better. It's an annoyance, not breaking some law. People have options to use other methods of communication that works better, is cross platform, AND is free.
2)Block innovative new apps. Seriously? The list of apps that would be blocked was known from BEFORE the store existed.
3)Cloud streaming services are now allowed fully by Apple. So that should have been removed. And by the way. Where are they now that they are allowed? Micro$oft..... "crickets"....

As for competing smartwatches and rival payment solutions. Sure. That you can go after them for.
 
Got something to back up this claim? I mean, you or someone must have surveyed every single developer to arrive at that conclusion, otherwise you're just pulling it out of your rear.

I am. Everyone I know is… If you knew how lucky you are as a developer to have access to 1.4B Potential customers with Secure hosting and delivery, a robust ($100 year) API that is constantly evolving, the development of new hardware From 6 axis motion, Touch screens, Camera enchantments, IR facial recognition. I have seen a

Anyway Here is a 2019 poll with some reasonable numbers… and people were happy with 10-15%… but of course people will immediately go for the lowest number. I seem to remember I hit 5-10% as a knee jerk stick it to the man… But it’s not what I think now. Hell I was happy with the 30%


Back in the Day of CDs I was lucky for my company to take home 15% - the retailer alone took 50%. Then there was production, printed artwork, storage and shipping

Sure you get some developers who think all software should be open source. Guess what they don’t have kids. Ironically the original Open source champions all came from first generation IPOs with Millions in the bank.

 
Good.

Besides folks on macrumors, everyone wants this. How many complaints do I get from people in the us about broken group chats because Apple? Pixelated videos, reactions not working etc. it's all Apple's fault.
So, don't buy the device. Simple.

I had problems with my BMW in the past...I stop buying them. Pretty easy.

Group chats. You mean with Android users? Yeah, I hear ya. But, you need the government to come in and regulate user experiences? LOL. Then there is a pile of crap that needs fixing.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.