“No one is going to spend anywhere near a thousand dollars on a gimmick that’s allegedly to be called an iphone”…..macrumors forum late 2006
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Apple Supplier to Ship Lenses for AR/VR Headset as Soon as February
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
iPod was ridiculed by many in this crowd immediately AFTER it was revealed. See the infamous iPod launch thread.
Until the "big reveal," we can make no judgement about its looks, its feel, its usefulness & functionality, and thus whether the rumored $3K is "too expensive" or "too cheap."
The ability to slip these on and have our eyes see an entirely different reality than wherever we are offers a dazzling amount of potential. Example: recently, there were hot rumors of Apple getting NFL Sunday ticket- a service that people pay upwards of $500/yr to be able to watch football played by teams outside of their home market (generally not their "current" home team). Millions pay for that service.
If VR could put those millions "there" in the stadiums as if they are actually there, what would they pay for that level of immersion? It seems some of those passionate fans might pay a few times the $500 option to faux be there vs. watching on a flat 2D screen. If so, just that one service (that one VR app) alone would get them into the ballpark (play on words intended) of the rumored $3K. What if Apple's recent rumor to be in the running for NFL ST was actually Apple working on a deal for a brand new service for mostly the same product: NFL ST VR? NFL could still sell NFL ST to the other bidders for the big bucks they got. This new service exclusively from Apple could potentially double up that NFL revenue. NFL wins. Apple wins. NFL superfans win.
If you can imagine such a service, extrapolate it to only everything else that people like to watch but may not always be able to go see live: up to every concert, up to every other sport, up to every broadway show, up to every Cirque show, etc. Imagine the subscription revenue motivation by Apple to line up such services that are exclusively experienced on this new hardware they want to push.
And that's just ONE application, relatively easy to realize with technologies that have existed for years now.
Many of us seem to be locked into a perception that this will only be Oculus with an Apple logo... only able to play some games. But being able to show our eyes ANYTHING opens up the opportunity for a ton of software to deliver all kinds of experiences/services our eyes would like to see if we could only actually be there in person.
"Think different!" Imagine what the ability to effectively show your eyes anything could deliver.
Until the "big reveal," we can make no judgement about its looks, its feel, its usefulness & functionality, and thus whether the rumored $3K is "too expensive" or "too cheap."
The ability to slip these on and have our eyes see an entirely different reality than wherever we are offers a dazzling amount of potential. Example: recently, there were hot rumors of Apple getting NFL Sunday ticket- a service that people pay upwards of $500/yr to be able to watch football played by teams outside of their home market (generally not their "current" home team). Millions pay for that service.
If VR could put those millions "there" in the stadiums as if they are actually there, what would they pay for that level of immersion? It seems some of those passionate fans might pay a few times the $500 option to faux be there vs. watching on a flat 2D screen. If so, just that one service (that one VR app) alone would get them into the ballpark (play on words intended) of the rumored $3K. What if Apple's recent rumor to be in the running for NFL ST was actually Apple working on a deal for a brand new service for mostly the same product: NFL ST VR? NFL could still sell NFL ST to the other bidders for the big bucks they got. This new service exclusively from Apple could potentially double up that NFL revenue. NFL wins. Apple wins. NFL superfans win.
If you can imagine such a service, extrapolate it to only everything else that people like to watch but may not always be able to go see live: up to every concert, up to every other sport, up to every broadway show, up to every Cirque show, etc. Imagine the subscription revenue motivation by Apple to line up such services that are exclusively experienced on this new hardware they want to push.
And that's just ONE application, relatively easy to realize with technologies that have existed for years now.
Many of us seem to be locked into a perception that this will only be Oculus with an Apple logo... only able to play some games. But being able to show our eyes ANYTHING opens up the opportunity for a ton of software to deliver all kinds of experiences/services our eyes would like to see if we could only actually be there in person.
"Think different!" Imagine what the ability to effectively show your eyes anything could deliver.
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AR/VR will have its place eventually, but not anytime soon. They will sell a few of these because it's an Apple product, but it won't be a huge commercial success. Pin it.
I really hope the $3k is just a ploy like when they "rumored" that the iPad would cost $1k but ended up releasing at $499, but we will see. I think it's still worth that price regardless though. It's basically a laptop with an infinite screen size and people already pay upwards of $3k for MacBooks.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Very well could be.
However, if the infinite size laptop screen concept is delivered with these, I'd readily pay many thousands for such a laptop alternative myself. I just paid over $2K for a 40" ultra-wide that will be forever locked to one location probably for its entire useful life. If I could easily take it with me as a usable virtual screen with the keyboard half of a MBpro, that seems towards an ideal "new kind of Mac" to me... especially when one considers that if goggles/glasses can give us any size screen for a Mac, it can deliver an any-size screen for an iPad VR and iPhone VR too. As is right now, every time I hit the road with the MB, the TINY 16" screen feels insanely constrained when I'm accustomed to working on that 40" UW. This product has seemingly real potential to fully resolve that constraint.
Right now, we put 1-3 pieces of aluminum tech in a bag so we have several size screen devices available to us wherever we go. Imagine goggles/glasses plus the bottom half of a MB being packed in that bag instead. Full Mac is in there with any size screen(s), all sizes of iPad is in there, all sizes of iPhones is in there. This seems like an obvious opportunity with the rumored goggles/glasses. Obviously this would NOT be for everyone, but I can easily imagine anyone who focuses in on using a laptop but wishing they had more screen RE at least considering this option because it could give them any size screen and/or any number of screens as needed.
We'll see, but I can easily imagine the any-size screen(s) thing being a tangible deliverable within this VR view. If so, the often-desired 17" MB becomes an option for it, as well as the 20" MB, 30" MB, 50" MB, multi-screen MB, iMac 30", iMac 32", iMac 40", iMac Ultra-wide, every size of TV, IMAX screen always with you, etc.
And all of that is thinking only within a relatively narrow, single concept of a flat 2D screen or two+. VR involves filling our entire range of vision, which then opens up all kinds of other uses for such technology.
However, if the infinite size laptop screen concept is delivered with these, I'd readily pay many thousands for such a laptop alternative myself. I just paid over $2K for a 40" ultra-wide that will be forever locked to one location probably for its entire useful life. If I could easily take it with me as a usable virtual screen with the keyboard half of a MBpro, that seems towards an ideal "new kind of Mac" to me... especially when one considers that if goggles/glasses can give us any size screen for a Mac, it can deliver an any-size screen for an iPad VR and iPhone VR too. As is right now, every time I hit the road with the MB, the TINY 16" screen feels insanely constrained when I'm accustomed to working on that 40" UW. This product has seemingly real potential to fully resolve that constraint.
Right now, we put 1-3 pieces of aluminum tech in a bag so we have several size screen devices available to us wherever we go. Imagine goggles/glasses plus the bottom half of a MB being packed in that bag instead. Full Mac is in there with any size screen(s), all sizes of iPad is in there, all sizes of iPhones is in there. This seems like an obvious opportunity with the rumored goggles/glasses. Obviously this would NOT be for everyone, but I can easily imagine anyone who focuses in on using a laptop but wishing they had more screen RE at least considering this option because it could give them any size screen and/or any number of screens as needed.
We'll see, but I can easily imagine the any-size screen(s) thing being a tangible deliverable within this VR view. If so, the often-desired 17" MB becomes an option for it, as well as the 20" MB, 30" MB, 50" MB, multi-screen MB, iMac 30", iMac 32", iMac 40", iMac Ultra-wide, every size of TV, IMAX screen always with you, etc.
And all of that is thinking only within a relatively narrow, single concept of a flat 2D screen or two+. VR involves filling our entire range of vision, which then opens up all kinds of other uses for such technology.
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Exactly!
Also, I was wondering if you had any theories on the control scheme of the device? I fully believe that a gesture based controls with hand tracking is how its going to be.
I was recently thinking about pinch-to-zoom and how universally accepted that is even though there is no real world equivalent to it. Apple basically invented that concept for touch screens. What do you think could be an equivalent idea for a 3D space with hand-tracking?
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
My imagin-ings about it have been relatively small:
- I easily see the any-size screen application, which- IMO- is easy enough all by itself to justify $3K if it can deliver such screen(s) for a good number of hours that someone needs to be looking at a screen
- I easily see the "be there" experience of any sport, any show, any concert, etc, which- IMO- is easy enough all by itself to justify $3K plus whatever the cost is for "front row, center" VR "seats" at all such events.
I could also see any surface around us being able to stand in for a touchscreen when needed. There's another thread where people are talking about a rumor of an iPad-type device mounted on the wall for home controls. I could imagine any wall or other flat surface being a virtual touchscreen. For example, the airplane seat in front of us, the tray table or the plane wall to our left or right could be a faux touch screen when we need to interact. That could "feel" like a typical touchscreen device because our fingertips would feel a tangible surface. We can fake this now by laying an iPad on a surface like a desk or table top and using it without looking directly at the screen. The angle of the view is quite distorted from the perfect rectangle when looking at it head-on... but we can still use it even if the shape of it no longer looks like a perfect rectangle from this angle. I can easily visualize the same here.
In the "new kind of laptop" scenario, I imagine those interactions work as we do now: on a real keyboard with a trackpad or mouse. Our fingers feel the keys/trackpad/mouse and things on the screen respond exactly as they do in reality use of a Mac now. In that one, I picture Apple rolling out some variation of the bottom half of a MB as something to potentially bring a full Mac to these Goggles/Glasses. I also picture the AR part of these AR/VR glasses kicking in to overlay the keyboard and our own hands on it below the VR screen we can see.
Others seem to be imagining it will all be eye-based- look at buttons/icons, blink to click or similar.
However, all of that is just wild speculation. Apple has a reputation of being the king of thinking out a simple UI. I'm sure part of the long delay of bringing this product to market is working out how best to create and implement a UI(s) for this product.
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Hardware is only half the equation with VR. Software is the other half that honestly matters a lot more. On the hardware side, Apple looks set to deliver something truly cutting edge that should give us one of the best consumer level VR experiences. However, at $3000 (more than a brand new 16” MacBook Pro) we are going to need a lot more out of this thing than just gimmicky games and “content consumption”. Especially since you can literally buy a PS5, PSVR2, and an oculus Pro for less than $3000 and have access to an already established VR ecosystem and much better quality games.
For $3000, Apple is aiming squarely at the “Pro” market. Just like a MacBook Pro or an iPad Pro, the true professionals evaluating this headset are going to ask “what can I make with this thing and how can it make my workflow easier?” If Apple can answer this questions in a satisfactory way, I will be first in line to get one.
For $3000, Apple is aiming squarely at the “Pro” market. Just like a MacBook Pro or an iPad Pro, the true professionals evaluating this headset are going to ask “what can I make with this thing and how can it make my workflow easier?” If Apple can answer this questions in a satisfactory way, I will be first in line to get one.
I agree. One of my thoughts was buttons displayed on the palm of your hand that you can press to do an action. But honestly, I wonder if once hand tracking and perfect passthrough are achieved if that is even necessary. Maybe once it can track well enough, pressing a button midair will feel intuitive enough? There are tons of experiments where if you hide someone's arm and place a fake one in front of them, they will feel sensations from a feather or react dramatically when you attempt to hammer their fake hand. Our brain is a wild thing and if this is the case I could see the attempts at haptic gloves slow down as well. Could be no need for haptic feedback because if it LOOKS like you are picking something up or doing something in virtual space, your brain can make you feel like you actually are.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
"Who needs a stylus when you have 10 of them with you at all times?"
"Who needs a touch surface when you have 2 of them with you at all times?"
I actually think a hand standing in for a VR (tangible) surface makes good sense (too). Add in wrist, arm, leg, torso, someone's else's back, etc.
"Who needs a touch surface when you have 2 of them with you at all times?"
I actually think a hand standing in for a VR (tangible) surface makes good sense (too). Add in wrist, arm, leg, torso, someone's else's back, etc.
Yup. Also keep in mind that all of the pre-release iPad rumors had it costing ~$800-1,000+, and people were shocked when Jobs got on stage and showed off the $499 starting price. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is closer to ~$1,800 rather than the rumored $3k.
Edit: e.g. so people don't think I'm talking out of my ***:
"A report from Taiwan Economic News starts us off right, with "industry sources" telling the outlet it'll have a 9.6-inch multitouch screen, built-in HSDPA (so much for Verizon), a P. A. Semi processor, a "long lasting battery pack," and a $799 to $999 price tag."
Apple tablet rumors strike back: 9.6-inch with HSDPA and P.A. Semi processor coming February 2010?
Now that all that iPod mess is over and done with, looks like it's as good of time as any to return to the world of Apple tablet rumors. A report from Taiwan Economic News starts us off right, with "industry sources" telling the outlet it'll have a 9.6-inch multitouch screen, built-in HSDPA (so...
They were right on everything except for the price.
I'm feeling very excited for this release. Can't wait for the reveal.
The earliest AR experiences might not even be coupled with multi-media glasses or googles, but simply using your existing iOS/IPadOS/MacOS device. Apple has been supporting AR content authoring the last 2 years at WWDC.
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That makes absolutely no sense. Do you even realise that iphone Pro models sell for over $3000 outside of your US bubble?
Indeed. Goggles are the worst form factor for VR, in my not so humble opinion. The are the most uncomfortable eyewear ever. Helmets are the way to go for VR. Infinitely more comfortable. If it has a flip down visor, all the better.
lol I will never understand the people who are so annoyed/tired of this product, yet keep commenting on the articles.
it’s also funny to see some of those same people when Announcement Day comes around, eating their words and foaming at the mouth. or at least saying “oh wow, it’s not so bad after all.”
it’s also funny to see some of those same people when Announcement Day comes around, eating their words and foaming at the mouth. or at least saying “oh wow, it’s not so bad after all.”
What the heck are you talking about? We're talking Apple AR device and HoloLens comparable pricing here (as opposed to consumer level Vive, Meta, and Valve devices). The only place the iPhone Pro reaches $3000 US dollars is somewhere like Turkey (most other regions hover around the USA pricing) which would mean the Apple AR would probably cost in excess of $5000 in Turkey... again comparable to HoloLens, not consumer level, and not comparable to the cost of an iPhone Pro... and just FYI I don't live in the US I live in Europe.
Seems like this is going to be the year we might actually see the real product.