Apple Supports 'Hour of Code' Campaign for Students with Free Workshops in U.S. Retail Stores

[Ryth]

We don't need more coders...last thing you need are people who think they are coders and actually screwing things up worse for people.

Same thing as people who think they are graphic designers because they took a page layout course or use photoshop.

We need problem solvers. Not coders.

 

[craig1410]

Absolutely horrible syntax and all but useless outside Apple's environment.
There's a reason CS programs don't use it to teach students, high school kids would hate it even more.

Java and C++ are far better to teach OO principles. And far more useful in the real world.

That's not even diving into the technical aspects of the language, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

Java is marginally easier to understand than Obj-C but only on a very superficial level. Anyone who has worked with enterprise Java knows just how hideous it can easily become. C++ may at first appear to be easy to understand but beginners will quickly come unstuck.

Obj-C has been improved a lot in recent years not just through the vast libraries and frameworks provided by Apple but also in terms of language features themselves. It is a hugely powerful language and one that opens doors to the world of iOS and Mac OS X programming. There are definitely worse choices these days for someone beginning to program.

I've been programming for 30+ years and have used many many languages. I currently use Ruby for most things but also work regularly with Java, Javascript and Objective-C. They all have their strengths, weaknesses and quirks. I was taught at school and university largely using Pascal but have never used that commercially so maybe that wasn't the "best" choice at the time. Then again, I don't think that matters as any programmer worth their salt can easily take onboard a new syntax as long as they understand the fundamentals and have an open mind.

C.

 

[DanielSw]

Objective-C is a **** language to begin with and even moreso for an introductory class on programming.

Maybe you should register, pal.

 

[Mr Fusion]

It's a conspiracy by the tech companies. They want to manipulate the nations schools to produce a glut of qualified coding drones so that overpaid programmers who are nearing retirement age (i.e. ~30) can be fired. Lower salaries = bigger profits!

That's... Actually pretty smart of them. ****ers...

 

[Oletros]

Isnt Java layer the whole reason Android apps stink so much?

Mmm, no

Its the entire development environment and core capabilities of Android that suck

And exactly what core capabilities suck?


And regarding the thread, good initiative by Apple

 

[Piggie]

I suppose this is why computer have to be so fast to compensate for such terrible coding & over 100MB for a driver for something.

Horrid bloated code which is not written by REAL programmers, just those who think they can code.

 

[everything-i]

Absolutely horrible syntax and all but useless outside Apple's environment.
There's a reason CS programs don't use it to teach students, high school kids would hate it even more.

Java and C++ are far better to teach OO principles. And far more useful in the real world.

That's not even diving into the technical aspects of the language, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

I would keep beginners away from C++ they should start with something like Python. As an introduction to coding C++ would put them off for life.

 

[DanielSw]

Absolutely horrible syntax and all but useless outside Apple's environment.
There's a reason CS programs don't use it to teach students, high school kids would hate it even more.

Java and C++ are far better to teach OO principles. And far more useful in the real world.

That's not even diving into the technical aspects of the language, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

What a ridiculous sentiment!

Get over yourself and "smell the roses"! Over one million apps in the Apple app store, and over $13 BILLION paid to iOS developers certainly doesn't result from "absolutely horrible syntax."

Nothing worthwhile is easily obtained, and learning Objective-C is no exception. But it's also not rocket science, and it can be done.

What the video is promoting is the fact that computer programming in WHATEVER language can be the basis of a very vital and limitless career, whether done independently or for an employer.

I'd say that few, if any, productive programmers waste much time worrying about their futures or about the "bad economy."

 

[hansonjohn590]

Maybe you should register, pal.

Get over yourself and "smell the roses"! Over one million apps in the Apple app store, and over $13 BILLION paid to iOS developers certainly doesn't result from "absolutely horrible syntax."

Here comes a shrilling Apple fanatic like a teenage girl at a Justin Bieber concert.

So what other platforms has Objective-C proven itself on? Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[D.T.]

Java is marginally easier to understand than Obj-C but only on a very superficial level. Anyone who has worked with enterprise Java knows just how hideous it can easily become. C++ may at first appear to be easy to understand but beginners will quickly come unstuck.

Obj-C has been improved a lot in recent years not just through the vast libraries and frameworks provided by Apple but also in terms of language features themselves. It is a hugely powerful language and one that opens doors to the world of iOS and Mac OS X programming. There are definitely worse choices these days for someone beginning to program.

I've been programming for 30+ years and have used many many languages. I currently use Ruby for most things but also work regularly with Java, Javascript and Objective-C. They all have their strengths, weaknesses and quirks. I was taught at school and university largely using Pascal but have never used that commercially so maybe that wasn't the "best" choice at the time. Then again, I don't think that matters as any programmer worth their salt can easily take onboard a new syntax as long as they understand the fundamentals and have an open mind.

C.

Outstanding post, I have quite a bit of the same background and perspective (roughly the same duration and range of experience - currently sitting in [like right this second], .NET/Oracle, and Ruby/Postgress + Obj-C ).

I’d also suggest that given the market for iOS development, Obj-C in the “real world” is way more useful than the previous poster [that craig1410 responded to] suggested (if the “real world” means being effective at getting hired/generating revenue).

 

[steve333]

Why bother, companies are just going to hire foreign workers anyway.
I work at an apt. complex near Qualcomm and every single employee that comes in looking for an apt. is foreign.
Oh wait, I did have one white guy come in once.
That's one American out of at least 500.

Easy to hire, easy to fire. That's all companies want, which is why they keep clamoring for more foreign tech workers, not because they can't find any Americans to do the job.
Graduates will find out the hard way

 

[DisMyMac]

What's the reasoning behind this campaign? Are there not enough people with these skill sets in the pipeline?

Watch the video. They are obviously trying to cover up their practices with preachiness.

And before they embark on a mission to get people to code, have they looked into the reasons why more people don't code already?

Because most people aren't autistic males.

 

[bbeagle]

So what other platforms has Objective-C proven itself on? Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Back in the C days, people decided they wanted an object oriented version of C. Two camps emerged - one with C++, and one with Objective-C. Objective-C was simpler, as it did not allow for multiple inheritance. C++ was more complicated as it DID allow for multiple inheritance, but using multiple inheritance caused all sorts of complicated issues.

When Steve Jobs chose Objective-C for his NeXt operating system, which eventually became OS X, there was no clear winner. Steve chose Objective-C because of it's simplicity, and easier to read and create code.

Microsoft chose C++ for it's 'power', and academia chose it because C++ could show techniques such as multiple inheritance that Objective C could not. Eventually, because Microsoft products owned 95% of the world, C++ was being used by more people.

Since this time, most people understand the problems with multiple inheritance, ways to get around this more simply, and 'nobody' uses this feature of C++ (not because it's 'bad', but because it causes way more bugs and complications, that work-arounds are better). Objective C is simpler to use. Apple actually chose right back then.

Ask anyone who uses both C++ and Objective C, which is easier to use. Oh, and both are supersets of C, so anything programmed in C will work in both C++ and Objective C.

Also, the syntax was chosen differently. I prefer the Objective C way.
Syntax example:
C++: dog->bark();
Objective-C: [dog bark];

(plus many other reasons to me that Objective C has better syntax and is much more powerful that I can't go into depth in a forum like this)

 

[SPUY767]

Absolutely horrible syntax and all but useless outside Apple's environment.
There's a reason CS programs don't use it to teach students, high school kids would hate it even more.

Java and C++ are far better to teach OO principles. And far more useful in the real world.

That's not even diving into the technical aspects of the language, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

Java, Absolutely, it's like Training wheels for OO, but C++ is no better than Obj-C for teaching, excepting that fact that you're more likely to encounter it in the wild.

----------

academia chose it because C++ could show techniques such as multiple inheritance

Terrible practice. Multiple inheritance almost always results in complex execution paths, which is the principle thing that OO was designed to avoid.

 

[hansonjohn590]

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Back in the C days, people decided they wanted an object oriented version of C. Two camps emerged - one with C++, and one with Objective-C. Objective-C was simpler, as it did not allow for multiple inheritance. C++ was more complicated as it DID allow for multiple inheritance, but using multiple inheritance caused all sorts of complicated issues.

When Steve Jobs chose Objective-C for his NeXt operating system, which eventually became OS X, there was no clear winner. Steve chose Objective-C because of it's simplicity, and easier to read and create code.

Microsoft chose C++ for it's 'power', and academia chose it because C++ could show techniques such as multiple inheritance that Objective C could not. Eventually, because Microsoft products owned 95% of the world, C++ was being used by more people.

Since this time, most people understand the problems with multiple inheritance, ways to get around this more simply, and 'nobody' uses this feature of C++ (not because it's 'bad', but because it causes way more bugs and complications, that work-arounds are better). Objective C is simpler to use. Apple actually chose right back then.

Ask anyone who uses both C++ and Objective C, which is easier to use. Oh, and both are supersets of C, so anything programmed in C will work in both C++ and Objective C.

Also, the syntax was chosen differently. I prefer the Objective C way.
Syntax example:
C++: dog->bark();
Objective-C: [dog bark];

(plus many other reasons to me that Objective C has better syntax and is much more powerful that I can't go into depth in a forum like this)

This entire post is like driving from New York to California by going through Canada. It goes in a full circle while completely ignoring the original post. Your history lesson has no merit at all to the rest of the post (and means nothing at all to the discussion at hand) and your example at the end is ridiculous. Compare some real functions with multiple parameters to Objective-C's ass backward hideous code.

Stay off Wikipedia next time because clearly you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about (though you seem to have mastered the art of copy and paste ).

 

[DrMotownMac]

To those who are asking what they can hope to teach people in one hour of coding instruction, the answer is...NOTHING, OF COURSE.

The point of this is NOT to teach anyone to code, but rather to help generate an INTEREST in coding. The problem is that most dummies in middle and high schools these days don't know jack about computer programming, and they make the assumption that people who write computer programs are just like nerds in the Math Club who play Dungeons in Dragons (or Magic: The Gathering) for fun on Saturday nights. And while there may be some truth to that stereotype, our society has to work on making it seem "cool" to code in order to get more people interested and hopefully get better coders in the future.

If the general public could just get a TASTE of coding, to experience the joy of writing instructions that actually make the computer do what you want it to do, then maybe they could convince a few more kids to go further in learning more about science, technology, math and engineering.

The more people who want to become programmers, the more competitive it will become, and the higher quality programming we will get. Competition is a good thing...don't fear it...embrace it.

 

[CFreymarc]

What's the reasoning behind this campaign? Are there not enough people with these skill sets in the pipeline?

And before they embark on a mission to get people to code, have they looked into the reasons why more people don't code already?

Long and short, the main reason why there is not as much programming taught in public schools are teachers unions and what some call "The Harry Potter Effect."

That is talent for programming with a desire to teach are paid poorly initially since most public schools with teachers unions are paid on a seniority scale instead of a merit scale. People that can code are not given a matching pay rate to what they would get in private industry and thus don't get paid enough to teach these valuable skills.

Second, individuals with incredible talents often get ostracized by their high school peers. This is not just technology but also in art, theater and even some athletic abilities. Rarely are they celebrated properly for their skills to flourish. In many cases, they find groups outside their school to grow their skills.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Unfortunately I see an education in programming, and some other areas of IT, as being a waste. There are already far too many talented programmers in this country that can't get a job because of the abuse of the H-1B visa program.

Microsoft on down hire (import is more the word) thousands to tens of thousands of H-1B visa holders to do things like programming and running help desks and pretty much everything in between. Sure, there are *some* niche jobs, and *some* companies that aren't abusing the H-1B's, but nearly, if not all of the large companies are doing it.

I've been able to talk a few kids out of programming as an occupation. One, I think, went to med school. Not too bad...

But, yeah, it's nice that Apple is backing this program, and a minor education in programming and IT in general isn't a bad idea because we are so dependent on computer technology, but until Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, etc, etc, etc, take up actually HIRING American programmers, this is largely a symbolic effort I'm afraid.

I did get involved, on the periphery, of a project to come up with a language that would be like BASIC was to so many in their 'early days' of learning programming. BASIC has pretty much disappeared from the face of the world, which is a shame. I spent many hours working on a PDP-11 using DECUS BASIC and too many hours hunched over a 'Trash 80' making things hum... Stanford was using their own language in CPS-50 which was a start.

And I think that 'video game programmer' has replaced rock star or NBA star as the dream job of the uninformed kids out there...

What do people here have to say?

 

[KdParker]

Isnt Java layer the whole reason Android apps stink so much?

Depends on how you write the code.

----------

Java is marginally easier to understand than Obj-C but only on a very superficial level. Anyone who has worked with enterprise Java knows just how hideous it can easily become. C++ may at first appear to be easy to understand but beginners will quickly come unstuck.

Obj-C has been improved a lot in recent years not just through the vast libraries and frameworks provided by Apple but also in terms of language features themselves. It is a hugely powerful language and one that opens doors to the world of iOS and Mac OS X programming. There are definitely worse choices these days for someone beginning to program.

I've been programming for 30+ years and have used many many languages. I currently use Ruby for most things but also work regularly with Java, Javascript and Objective-C. They all have their strengths, weaknesses and quirks. I was taught at school and university largely using Pascal but have never used that commercially so maybe that wasn't the "best" choice at the time. Then again, I don't think that matters as any programmer worth their salt can easily take onboard a new syntax as long as they understand the fundamentals and have an open mind.

C.

What language you start in is not important as long as you can walk away with a good understanding object oriented programming.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Back in the C days, people decided they wanted an object oriented version of C. Two camps emerged - one with C++, and one with Objective-C. Objective-C was simpler, as it did not allow for multiple inheritance. C++ was more complicated as it DID allow for multiple inheritance, but using multiple inheritance caused all sorts of complicated issues.

When Steve Jobs chose Objective-C for his NeXt operating system, which eventually became OS X, there was no clear winner. Steve chose Objective-C because of it's simplicity, and easier to read and create code.

Microsoft chose C++ for it's 'power', and academia chose it because C++ could show techniques such as multiple inheritance that Objective C could not. Eventually, because Microsoft products owned 95% of the world, C++ was being used by more people.

Since this time, most people understand the problems with multiple inheritance, ways to get around this more simply, and 'nobody' uses this feature of C++ (not because it's 'bad', but because it causes way more bugs and complications, that work-arounds are better). Objective C is simpler to use. Apple actually chose right back then.

Ask anyone who uses both C++ and Objective C, which is easier to use. Oh, and both are supersets of C, so anything programmed in C will work in both C++ and Objective C.

Also, the syntax was chosen differently. I prefer the Objective C way.
Syntax example:
C++: dog->bark();
Objective-C: [dog bark];

(plus many other reasons to me that Objective C has better syntax and is much more powerful that I can't go into depth in a forum like this)

And what of C#? Microsoft apparently created C# as part of their .Net Framework. I haven't kept up with Microsoft programming but wonder why they would create C# and drop it... But this is a tangential issue...

 

[Alphabetize]

I was interested in coding for a while, because I was motivated to create apps just for me, but I tried it and I hated it. Awfully boring and it's way too logical for me.

 

[MacLC]

Here comes a shrilling Apple fanatic like a teenage girl at a Justin Bieber concert.

So what other platforms has Objective-C proven itself on? Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Both of you please settle down.
First, Windows has always had way more market share than Mac but that doesn't make it better. Likewise all the iOS apps don't stand as proof alone that Objective-C is a great platform. However the point that teaching people how to use Objective-C might help get them interested in programming is still valid.

Waaaaay back my high school had a tech lab class where we learned about programming, building computers, and troubleshooting computers. Out of 2000+ students, 5 joined the class and 2 of those 5 were attractive girls. Back then there was no explanation that if you learned programming you could be working your own non-core hours wearing whatever clothes you wanted and making twice as much as everybody else.

 

[chirpie]

We don't need more coders...last thing you need are people who think they are coders and actually screwing things up worse for people.

Same thing as people who think they are graphic designers because they took a page layout course or use photoshop.

We need problem solvers. Not coders.

I don't see more coders as the end game of an initiative like this. As another poster said, it's about creating a fundamental appreciation and acceptance of what kind of work programming is. ("Creating an interest.") The more young people that understand the value of learning something like this, the better chance we'll get those problem solvers out of that generation later in life.

Lest we forget, Jobs was a lousy programmer, but him even having a basic understanding of technologies along with his other varied interests (I.E., love of typography) turned him into one of those problem solvers.

 

[iSRS]

Here comes a shrilling Apple fanatic like a teenage girl at a Justin Bieber concert.

Actually, Bieber is out... One Direction is in... And as anyone who tried to get tickets to their concerts this past weekend (for their daughters)? LiveNation and Ticketmaster could use some coding help on their websites...

 

[StyxMaker]

Why bother, companies are just going to hire foreign workers anyway.
I work at an apt. complex near Qualcomm and every single employee that comes in looking for an apt. is foreign.
Oh wait, I did have one white guy come in once.
That's one American out of at least 500.

Easy to hire, easy to fire. That's all companies want, which is why they keep clamoring for more foreign tech workers, not because they can't find any Americans to do the job.
Graduates will find out the hard way

The 'white guy' is American and everyone else, with darker skin, are foreign? I would suggest a large dose of confirmation bias at work here.