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Originally posted by Towel
I disagree. You're envisioning this as a thin client with a airport file-sharing link to a server. Try thinking of just a regular monitor with a wireless monitor cable. *Evereything* is in the CPU. The monitor is just a monitor. The main obstancles to this sort of set up are responsiveness and bandwidth.

Yes, a "walkabout" monitor is a nice concept, but the input problems aren't easily solved. Either the keyboard comes along for the ride somehow, which defeats most of the purpose, or the monitor is a touch screen -- which is the tablet nightmare in another, and not much more palatable, form. Maybe Apple's figured out how to solve these problems, but I doubt it. Hardly seems worth the effort, if you ask me.
 
Originally posted by zync
I agree except I believe from my prof explaining last semester that DV isn't really compressed per se....it's actually a hardware compression which occurs at the point when it is transferred to a computer, etc.

I'm pretty certain that DV is similar to MPEG or motion JPEG and it operates at about a 5:1 compression ratio.

Here is a selection from the link at:

http://graphics.lcs.mit.edu/~tbuehler/video/dv.html

What is DV?

There are three tape formats that are known as DV formats: MiniDV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO. All three utilize the same compression method called DV25 (which is sometimes just referred to as DV compression)....

DV25 Specifications
As stated above, DV25 is the codec used to compress all video that is recorded onto a MiniDV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO tape. This compression occurs when the information is written on the tape. People often refer to "uncompressed DV," which is a bit of a misnomer. DV is always compressed; it's just a very light compression. There is no way to record onto a DV tape and not have the information compressed into the DV25 format. "Uncompressed DV" usually means that no additional compression is added during the capture process. A better term that is often used is "raw DV."
 
Originally posted by fpnc
I'm pretty certain that DV is similar to MPEG or motion JPEG and it operates at about a 5:1 compression ratio.

Here is a selection from the link at:

http://graphics.lcs.mit.edu/~tbuehler/video/dv.html

What is DV?

There are three tape formats that are known as DV formats: MiniDV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO. All three utilize the same compression method called DV25 (which is sometimes just referred to as DV compression)....

DV25 Specifications
As stated above, DV25 is the codec used to compress all video that is recorded onto a MiniDV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO tape. This compression occurs when the information is written on the tape. People often refer to "uncompressed DV," which is a bit of a misnomer. DV is always compressed; it's just a very light compression. There is no way to record onto a DV tape and not have the information compressed into the DV25 format. "Uncompressed DV" usually means that no additional compression is added during the capture process. A better term that is often used is "raw DV."

I dunno then. I guess I stand corrected. I guess I'll have to talk to my prof about it again one day. In either case it's still not compressed that much. Maybe he said it was compressed as it was recorded instead of being recorded and then compressed later on? That's probably it. It was a semester ago, give me slack :D
 
Where the three DV formats differ is in their track-pitches (different linear speed), and tape formulations. (Metal Evaporated: MiniDV, Metal Particle: DVCPro, DVCAM???)

The big problem with DV25 is the sampling of Chroma. It's a 4:1:1 ratio with 1 sample of each of the two color components for every 4 samples of Luminance. It makes doing green-screen work very hard.

I think where DV, Mpeg and MotionJpeg are similar are in the algorithms used. Aren't they all based on DCT?

I used to work on a editing system based on Wavelet compression called VideoCube. Wavelet is what is now being used in Apple's Pixlet codec. VideoCube was more like 10 or 20:1 compression and artifacted in a much different way than DCT codecs.


Originally posted by fpnc
I'm pretty certain that DV is similar to MPEG or motion JPEG and it operates at about a 5:1 compression ratio.

Here is a selection from the link at:

http://graphics.lcs.mit.edu/~tbuehler/video/dv.html

What is DV?

There are three tape formats that are known as DV formats: MiniDV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO. All three utilize the same compression method called DV25 (which is sometimes just referred to as DV compression)....
 
Originally posted by Trimix
have seen this thing about a year ago already - damn, forgot who makes it.


ViewSonic makes one, and as an additional comment i would like to say that PC users already have the option for both of these devices, people are mentioning, a tablet pc, or just a plain wireless monitor.
 
At first I didn't really think having an Apple tablet would be such a big deal, but really, it would be pretty cool. We're probably getting a Quicktime Streaming Server at the school I work at, and it'd be nice to administrate it remotely with a smaller-than-a-laptop sized device. Hmm :)
 
Originally posted by Muigleb
ViewSonic makes one, and as an additional comment i would like to say that PC users already have the option for both of these devices, people are mentioning, a tablet pc, or just a plain wireless monitor.
Sorry but there is no such a thing as a 'plain wireless monitor.' The Viewsonic products fall into one of three categories: fully-functional tablet PC, reduced-functionality tablet running Windows CE (i.e. a PDA with a large color screen), or a reduced-functionality Windows CE tablet connected to your PC via Remote Desktop. In all cases, there is a CPU, memory, graphics chip, some sort of internal storage (flash storage in the case of the Windows CE devices), and various ports. All are independent computers (or PDAs) that connect to your PC in different ways.
 
Originally posted by dongmin
Sorry but there is no such a thing as a 'plain wireless monitor.' The Viewsonic products fall into one of three categories: fully-functional tablet PC, reduced-functionality tablet running Windows CE (i.e. a PDA with a large color screen), or a reduced-functionality Windows CE tablet connected to your PC via Remote Desktop. In all cases, there is a CPU, memory, graphics chip, some sort of internal storage (flash storage in the case of the Windows CE devices), and various ports. All are independent computers (or PDAs) that connect to your PC in different ways.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I don't recall seeing anything that's just a "plain wireless monitor"...
 
Originally posted by dongmin
Sorry but there is no such a thing as a 'plain wireless monitor.' The Viewsonic products fall into one of three categories: fully-functional tablet PC, reduced-functionality tablet running Windows CE (i.e. a PDA with a large color screen), or a reduced-functionality Windows CE tablet connected to your PC via Remote Desktop. In all cases, there is a CPU, memory, graphics chip, some sort of internal storage (flash storage in the case of the Windows CE devices), and various ports. All are independent computers (or PDAs) that connect to your PC in different ways.

yes but your "reduced-functionality Windows CE tablet" will not work with out a computer since all computing functions are handeld on the mother computer. the main reason for haveing CE on the monitor is so that you dont have to transfer the overhead of the OS over wireless. yes it does have its own cpu and memory, but my original post was simply to show that the products that people were wanting do exist.
 
Re: What I would want

Originally posted by soosy
I think Steve Jobs is right that most people don't want to watch TV on their computers. What people do want is TiVo. Maybe I'm cheap, but when I first heard of TiVo I just thought why can't my computer do that? It already has a hard drive and all the other components.

The other thing I want is to route my mp3 collection to multiple speakers throughout the house.

Yeah, there is a real need for the abilty to wirelessly transmit to a mirrored or elongated monitor / TV / projection device.

For biz: Do an important Keynote or PowerPoint presentation, but 'Look Ma, no wires!'

That'll blow the socks off of clients

For fun: beam your DVD, iPhoto slideshow, iMovie, or Quicktime file to the TV (or better yet, a new 30" wireless Apple digital display?)

Folks were lining up over the holidays for mongo sized Plasama & LCD TV's -- none of which had a wireless capability.

Imagine the potential for Apple here. Someone's going to do it...the only questions are 1) who's going to do it 1st; and 2) who's going to do it best.

My money's on Apple
 
WILL SOMEONE PHOTOSHOP THIS FOR ME ?

Hi all ,

I too am waiting in frustration for the iMac G5.

MIGHT AS WELL TURN IT LOSE, Apple !

... 'CAUSE I AINT BUYING UNTIL YOU DO : )

With a hot G5 , it would need additional cooling.

I think too we will get the 23" HD Cinema display :
that's why those have been reduced in price --- and
to make way for the 30" stand alone display.

Can't have the same old 20" display for the next revolution , now can we ?

But this huge head requires a heavier base WITHOUT increasing the footprint .

Since the spherical form factor is best for the mobility of the swing arm, it will remain .

To combine all these requirements, we get :

(1) An additional "Southern Hemisphere" will
complete the round, add weight and space.
Still white -- NOT confused with Pro line.

(2) four cylindrical posts for legs that are
smoothly blended with the sphere - up to the
equator - to look like the lunar lander in the
film "2001 A Space Odyssey",

(3) an optional second drive ( slot )

(4) totally wireless except for power cord

(5) 23" HD Cinema head

(6) surround sound speakers option
(7) IEEE 802.15.3 for video and HD TV

(8) illuminated BT keyboard

(9) One-button mouse BT

Poised to Purchase,
 
A Different Perspective...

I switched this past summer before I started college and have followed general tech issues for awhile. I have some different views than those mentioned on this thread.

I'd love to see future desktop Macs computers built around a large screen LCD or plasma screen television. Apple should design better wireless mice (they need to have 2 buttons, be shaped like normal mice - mice manufactured by Apple are the most uncomfortable devices I've ever used, and ideally, be rechargeable, instead of using batteries) and keyboards (to compete with Microsoft and Logitech's nice wireless keyboards) to help facilitate this process. I can imagine my living room someday with a large plasma screen television that can operate as my computer monitor for whatever supercharged Mac I'd have, and can simultaneously play cable or satellite television in the corner while using the computer (so computer screen and TV can be viewed at same time). This way, I could listen to music on my surround sound system in that same room while muting the television, or watch television or DVDs on the large screen TV with the surround sound system. My future living room would also have a TiVo with a much bigger hard drive than current versions, so I could digitally record television program. But it should be integrated to the DVD burner (again, much faster than current speeds, to make everything easier) on my future Mac, so I could burn TV shows to DVD when I want to, and not when they're released on DVD in stores. I'm fairly sure DVD burners in computers can't burn digital video from devices like TiVo or ReplayTV, but I hope that is possible someday.

Plus, imagine gaming from a LA-Z-Boy using a huge plasma display with a wireless mouse and keyboard.

I'm a freshman in college, so I'm optimistic the prices of large plasma screen televisions will come down quite a bit by the time I'm out of school.
 
Re: A Different Perspective...

That's definitely an interesting perspective, although I think I tend to disagree with most of your ideas.

Originally posted by Nawlins
Apple should design better wireless mice (they need to have 2 buttons, be shaped like normal mice - mice manufactured by Apple are the most uncomfortable devices I've ever used, and ideally, be rechargeable, instead of using batteries) and keyboards (to compete with Microsoft and Logitech's nice wireless keyboards) to help facilitate this process.[/b]

First of all, I agree Apple's wireless mouse isn't exactly what I want, and outside of frequency hopping (which, admittedly, is very cool), I don't envision buying these devices... especially without rechargable batteries.

But I disagree with you point on comfortability. I can't stand MS's mice; their "ergonomic" design really aggravates my carpal tunnel symptoms, and I'm always accidentally clicking side buttons and going back/forward in web pages. After about 2 months, I finally gave in and got a 2-button Logitech right/left-handed mouse. It feels solid and moves smoothly; it reminds me the most of Apple's mice frankly, but with the features I want: scroll wheel and two buttons. But I've always found Apple's to be ergonomically some of the best mice around. (Well... outside of Mr. Hockey Puck :) )

I can imagine my living room someday with a large plasma screen television that can operate as my computer monitor for whatever supercharged Mac I'd have

And here's where you lose me entirely. I just don't see why you'd ever want this. Have you ever used WebTV? Have you ever felt like sitting 10 feet from your computer screen? (even if it is a plasma -- they're not actually all that crisp, pixel by pixel) Why would you want this? Computer use is active, engaging, and requires constant attention. TV watching is passive and provides entertainment while doing very little on your part. New products like ReplayTV/TiVO (PVRs) are great, because they functionally get out of your way and let you focus on the main goal of TV: watching TV!

Putting your computer on your TV just seems silly to me, provding litle to no benefits, and possibly even stepping backwards.

Let's look at it this way: in my apartment, we have 4 people who live here and one TV. People often want to watch TV, but nobody wants to sit around while one of us uses the computer. So either we all start getting plasma displays in our bedrooms and moving our chairs way back from the wall (to say nothing of cost!), or we'd all sit around the TV in the living room watching me check my email with a small TV image in the corner. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

How about writing a paper? Designing a web site? None of these seem to make any sense on a plasma display attached to a computer. In fact, the only things that do make sense potentially, are related to media -- video editing, and music. But it still seems a sync solution, whereby you can watch movies from your computer on the plasma TV in the other room, or listen to your MP3s remotely, is a much more attractive solution than putting the computer itself in the room...

But it should be integrated to the DVD burner (again, much faster than current speeds, to make everything easier)

Making things faster doesn't imply easier :)

I'm fairly sure DVD burners in computers can't burn digital video from devices like TiVo or ReplayTV, but I hope that is possible someday.

This is actually possible today with ReplayTV, not TiVO though. Using DVArchive, ReplayTV (at no extra cost) can be networked with your computer, and you can stream recorded TV shows back and forth between the two devices, archive shows on your Mac, play those back remotely on the ReplayTV, etc. You can use some great tools called rtv that allow you to convert these ReplayTV MPEG2 files directly into standard DVD MPEG2 files, and then DVD Studio Pro or iDVD or Toast will burn them straight up. Pretty snazzy :) I do it most days. (Plus, ReplayTV automatically has "commercial advance", so burning movies or TV shows is simple to burn without any advertising...)

Plus, imagine gaming from a LA-Z-Boy using a huge plasma display with a wireless mouse and keyboard.

NOW you're talking :) But, I'm afraid specialized consoles (Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo GameCube) seem to make more sense here to me, and are already built to work on TVs and would work on a Plasma as it stands...

I'm a freshman in college, so I'm optimistic the prices of large plasma screen televisions will come down quite a bit by the time I'm out of school.

You're probably right, but I'm not sure you'll see the Mac of your dreams in the living room :)

Cheers!

ReeD.
 
Re: Re: A Different Perspective...

Originally posted by reedm007

And here's where you lose me entirely. I just don't see why you'd ever want this. Have you ever used WebTV? Have you ever felt like sitting 10 feet from your computer screen? (even if it is a plasma -- they're not actually all that crisp, pixel by pixel) Why would you want this? Computer use is active, engaging, and requires constant attention. TV watching is passive and provides entertainment while doing very little on your part. New products like ReplayTV/TiVO (PVRs) are great, because they functionally get out of your way and let you focus on the main goal of TV: watching TV!

Putting your computer on your TV just seems silly to me, provding litle to no benefits, and possibly even stepping backwards.

Let's look at it this way: in my apartment, we have 4 people who live here and one TV. People often want to watch TV, but nobody wants to sit around while one of us uses the computer. So either we all start getting plasma displays in our bedrooms and moving our chairs way back from the wall (to say nothing of cost!), or we'd all sit around the TV in the living room watching me check my email with a small TV image in the corner. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

How about writing a paper? Designing a web site? None of these seem to make any sense on a plasma display attached to a computer. In fact, the only things that do make sense potentially, are related to media -- video editing, and music. But it still seems a sync solution, whereby you can watch movies from your computer on the plasma TV in the other room, or listen to your MP3s remotely, is a much more attractive solution than putting the computer itself in the room...

---------------------------

Don't compute on a TV tube.

Instead, watch TV on a computer monitor.

So much for the resolution problem.

I don't have a plasma , but I hook my iBook up to $1,000 Toshiba projector and project it 5ft X 5ft , on a white wall, 9 feet away ( Sherwin Williams Luminous White Flat Latex super paint $35/gal. ).

The image is AWESOME and every bit like the iBook's screen only brighter and huge.
Pixelation is NOT visible.

A cube transition can have you blowing chunks if it is done too fast.

But the NASA 3-D Mars pics now on the web are to die for :)

I have no trouble working with this ; it is much more fun to design Keynote lessons and documents.

The iTunes visualizer with Pink Floyd running is ..... well, like,
mellow AND intense if you can dig behind a groove like that !

What a college student or single apartment dweller does NOT need is to pay for two large LCD's : one for fun , and one for work.

********IT'S THE MOUNT***********

Maybe if a great ( A-p-p-l-e brand ) wall mount were marketed that would fold invisible & flat against the wall , and swing out&down on scissor-like struts, then tilt down & sideways so that one could share with guests as well as "hunker" with one's homework, the Jobsian TV vs. MONITOR distinction would disappear.

Afterall, if it is too big, just size the window down to suit you.

Some people live with several others and need multiple screens.

But others ( college, singles, retired, divorced, etc. ) don't have to fight over the screen --- they worry about footing the $$$$ , on one paycheck , for more than one luxury item like a large screen.

*********************************

Also, with my FORMAC brand TV Studio , I plan to incorporate both my TV watching, my recording and VHS to DVD transfers , and my editing out commercials in iMovie, and time shifting, etc. and my computing work into one 20 " iMac screen --- sometimes I will open a small window on my work space to watch TV as I work. At other times, I will just do one or the other on FULL SCREEN.

And with an easy dual head hack to the iMac, I can have that much more acreage and versatility.

Eventually, FORMAC will go HD 1080p and that will end all questions once and for all.

Let's get past the past and move on to the
... you know ... well whatever.


---gooddog
 
Market is ready for iSlate

The technology is available to provide consumers with a product like "iSlate". Of course only Apple could really do it right, although several other companies are attempting to create some variation of this device. Unfortunately many are too focused on video playback only, & not creating a true multi-function device that could be used at home, at the office, or on the road. This product would integrate well into the "Digital Lifestyle" philosophy & compliment existing Apple product. It would provide a screen large enough to actually watch video & view photos, while still being small enough to be portable. It needs to be smaller than a notebook computer, but larger than a PDA. Granted, you can not but a device the size of a DVD case in your pocket, but something doesn't have to fit in a pocket to be portable. This device could be used in so many different situations that if would have broad appeal in the market. I only pray that Apple is working on such a device & will release it in 2004. They have an opportunity to impact the industry with the iSlate & iVideo media Store as much as the iPod & iTMS will.

iSlate

New Apple mini-tablet –> PMA (portable media appliance)

Designed not to be a creative device like a desktop or laptop, but rather a sophisticated display device that communicates seamlessly with other devices via Rendezvous & 802.11, BT, FireWire, etc.


Device Size:
8” x 5.0” x .65” (±15oz)
± 1/2 size of a 17” PowerBook
± 2x size of a Palm T3 or an iPod
± size of a DVD movie case
small enough to hold with one hand by the bezel (.5” bezel on the sides)

Screen:
±8” LCD (16:9 ratio) -> 800 x 480 pixels minimum (1024 x 600 ideally)
± 1/2 size of 17” PowerBook screen
± 2x size of a Palm T3 screen
able to display “640 x 480 material” & DVD (720x480) quality video natively

Battery:
6-9 hr. Li-Ion battery (or some new battery technology)

Storage:
1.8” 20GB or 40GB Toshiba hard drive (additional capacity can come from external devices)
128MB or 256MB RAM - fixed
CF slot (w/ adapter for SD, xD, Smart Media, Memory stick)

Processor & OS ?:
Motorola 800 MHz G4 mobile w/ Mac OS X lite or
Intel 400 MHz XScale PXA263 w/ Palm OS 6 or Mac OS Mobile?

Connectivity:
802.11 –> Desktop or Laptop, Stereo, Internet via Wi-Fi hotspots
Bluetooth –> Keyboard, Mouse, PDA, Wireless Headphones, Internet via GSM Phone
FireWire –> iPod, Computer, Hard Drive, DVD/CD writer, Video Camera, iSight
USB 2.0 –> Printer, PDA, Digital Still Camera
mini-DVI w/adapter for:
-> ADC & VGA for larger monitor
-> DVI for video projector or HDTV
-> S-Video for video projector or TV
-> Composite for video projector or TV
Stereo mini out
Stereo mini in
Rendezvous for seamless connectivity to other devices

Input:
Inkwell via touch screen &/or stylus
Keyboard & mouse via Bluetooth or USB
Microphone
Remote control via Bluetooth

Applications:
inkwell, iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie, Safari, QuickTime, iSync, Rendezvous
Preview or Acrobat Reader, Mail, iCal, Address Book, Sherlock, iChat AV
Keynote, FileMaker, Quicken,

A/V Formats:
Pixlet, MPEG-4, MPEG-2, MPEG-1, AAC, MP3, WAV, AIFF, Audible, JPEG, TIFF, GIF

Accessories:
Charger, External Battery, Stand, clip for iSight, Portable folding BT keyboard, BT mouse
Headphone w/Microphone boom, quality stereo headphones

Price ??:
$699 to $899

Create a device that is bigger that the largest PDA or Archos type device, yet smaller than the average notebook or tablet computer. Imagine if you will, holding a device (about the size of a DVD case) away from you anywhere from 12" to 18". Obviously a 4" screen would be inadequate, but a 7" to 9" diagonal widescreen would be more than acceptable. It could still be small enough to fit in a stack of books, a briefcase, a large purse, of any number of other carrying cases. It would be something that could be viewed in an office, at home, in a coffee shop, on an airplane or train, or even in the backseat of a car.

The idea is not to see how much visual information one can cram into a small space (3" to 4" screens) or replace existing devices like the TV or Video Projector. The idea is to create a device that is a reasonable compromise between portability & "acceptable or pleasurable" viewing for multiple applications & that also complements existing devices.

Although a 4 lb, 12" notebook computer displays video beautifully (I use one everyday), it is too big for the situations I have described. Beyond the innumerable business applications it could fulfill, it could display video & photos on a screen that is much bigger than an Archos type device or PDA, & yet smaller than a notebook computer. It doesn’t need to carry everything all the time, so it doesn’t require a massive hard drive. The internal HD needs only to be large enough for the OS, applications & enough storage to carry material while you away from any connectivity to other devices or the internet.

From a strictly “video perspective”, a large part of its success would hinge upon Apple's ability to distribute video clips through an online store much like iTMS. This store could provide educational content, business content, news content, & entertainment content beyond just movies. To be truly successful, it must integrate into Apple's "Digital Lifestyle" strategy, & be truly portable (ubiquitous wireless connectivity & good battery life).
 
Tablet

I agree with the photoshopped mockups and the imac poster.

It should be a computer that you can take with you that still functions as a computer at a desk (i.e. docking station), but is still a computer when its disconnected. Also, to make it successful, you'd need to make it be able to turn into a TV to play DVD, hence the idea of a Wintel Tab that has the flip around keyboard.



It sounds like a Wintel copy and a waste of money if you ask me. If you wanted a *great* TV, buy a TV or an iBook. (You'd waste a PowerBook if you j wanted a TV.)
 
Flip around PB?

Ok, now the only think that would be viable i think is a PB (g5 of course :D) with a screen that went all the way around, instead of just leaning back how ever many degrees. That way it'd be true computer that could be use for other things. What about stylus entry? To me, that'd get annoying like those cheap screen tinting things or w/e they are,
 
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