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Exactly. I haven't seen that phenomenon with other phones....

Why are people so dead-set on defending the phone? It costs hundreds of dollars or it locks you in to a 2 year contract. That's a big deal... I would think you would want it to work really well.

If you haven't had problems, then great. But to defend phones that have demonstrated the issue -- I don't get it.
 
I would think you would want it to work really well.
Quite.

If you haven't had problems, then great. But to defend phones that have demonstrated the issue -- I don't get it.
If you tell a fundamentalist that God didn't answer your prayers, he won't tell you there's something wrong with God. He'll tell you there's something wrong with you.
 
I think in sum total, the problem boils down to this: Apple did not properly test the iPhone 4 with the normal, relaxed grip when you hold it in your left hand and use the right hand to operate the touchscreen functions. As such, they missed the fact when the palm of the left hand "bridges" that antenna gap, it can in some cases cause a dramatic reduction in signal reception quality. Sure, Apple can demonstrate that other cellphones suffer from this problem, but they involve holding the cellphone in ways that no user normally holds the cellphone.

This is why I am suspicious on why Apple delayed the white-back iPhone 4. I personally believe Apple is quietly re-engineering the iPhone 4 with 1) modified electronics to correct a known problem with the proximity sensor and 2) either anodizing the metal antenna band and/or covering it with clear plastic to correct the known antenna issue. We may see the white-back iPhone 4 arrive with no antenna issues and new production black-back iPhone 4's also with the antenna issue corrected.
 
If that is true that our hands are damping the reception then Apple failed, Putting the antenna on the outside of the phone. Most Cell phones have the antenna on the inside of the phone and in-turn there are no problems from human contact. Buffered by plastic. Heck remember the old cell phones with the pull out antenna they had a rubber coating. Bad design thats all.
Except that ALL PHONES HAVE problems when you touch the antenna spot, internal or external.
My new Acer E110 (a gift from my son to replace a dead Nokia 5800) drops 2 bars out of 4 when held in the right hand.

The 4 is not better than the 3G "under any circumstances" - I know, I have both. The 4 has dropped calls and had data stop as in my video at very top of page - things I've never had or even been able to recreate on my 3G. I don't hate Apple and I'm not paid to be here.
iPhone 4 is better than 3G under any circumstances, deal with it.
You have a defective unit OR (more probably) a very weak network (but it should affects 3G also).
Or you don't have any iPhone 4 and you are just trolling ;) (relax, it's just a joke).


Good for Anandtech, they can magic my straight-to-voicemail calls I keep missing back to me then, since I never had this problem in the same location on my 3G this must be some great new feature I'm not understanding. I can stop calls/data on my iP4 by touching it, I can't on my 3G, that's not better in every way...
Anandtech did an extensive test, your is just an impression.
I can't stop data on the iPhone 4 with a single finger, so the problem should be your phone/your network.
Every cell phone I've owned - Nokia, Motorola, Samsung - has cautioned against holding the phone in a particular manner (usually covering where the antenna is) so as to not interfere with the signal. I don't get what all the commotion is about.

Correct.
There are caution note on almost every user manual about that.
But you know, bashing apple is sooooo cooool :cool::D:D
 
No like most of the other videos on youtube..

The guy in the link is obviously trying to outsmart you and leans the phone against a keyboard (that might leaning against a tank..) If only a light touch is necessary you should not have to support it against anything.

Nope, totally wrong - the phone is the slipperiest device I've ever owned, it spins round in circles when you touch it - it was against the keyboard simply to support it, I made a better vid here where I support it with another finger but as you can see keep it on there while both pressing the side and not to show it isn't affecting the signal. I'm not trying to con people here - I bought the phone and would rather it work properly!
 
If you haven't had problems, then great. But to defend phones that have demonstrated the issue -- I don't get it.

Its cost vs benefit. You just ask "are the benefits worth the costs?"

I don't find the dead spot gets in my way that much.
I use a case and don't hold it in a way that causes a problem.

The design and interface of the phone is excellent - overall the experience is worth the cost to me.

Have tried HTC phones - and the interface experience was not as enjoyable.
 
iPhone 4 is better than 3G under any circumstances, deal with it.
You have a defective unit OR (more probably) a very weak network (but it should affects 3G also).
Or you don't have any iPhone 4 and you are just trolling ;) (relax, it's just a joke).



Anandtech did an extensive test, your is just an impression.
I can't stop data on the iPhone 4 with a single finger, so the problem should be your phone/your network.

Well I know my signal at home isn't great (was barely 5 bars on the iP4 before the update, now is around 3 on 3G network, 5 on GSM) but I can't replicate this problem in any way with my old iPhone 3G - so in circumstances where you don't have a perfect signal strength the 3G can in-fact be better than the 4... :)
 
No, it isn't. A 3.5" thumb touch screen is not an adequate general purpose computing input or output device. It is a reasonable compromise for a limited subset of computing tasks.

Paradigm, look up the word. Compromise is person specific, I find using non-ergo shaped keyboards a compromise, yet its still an adequate conduit from human to computer by way of fingers. I for example, see the wave of MT smartphones as a HCI revolution. Bringing users away from the stale paradigm of the keyboard and mouse. Getting users to physically interact with their device, they're actions have greater importance.

(1) It's a computer running Windows/OS X - it still has general purpose I/O, the ostensible ability to remove Windows/OS X if I choose, etc.; (2) Windows/OS X give you a far greater degree of control than the iPhone's operating system.

The iphone is a computer running iPhone OS/Jailbreak/Linux/Android, it still has a general purpose I/O, the ability to remove iPhone OS/Jailbreak/Linux/Android (I don't think you know what ostensible means) if I choose. iPhone OS/Jailbreak/Linux/Android gives you computing freedom and control everywhere you go.

Android on iPhone - http://www.androidoniphone.com/

Not yet. I had commented that a keyboard or some other similarly worthy input device is an essential component of a "computer" in the sense in which the term "computer" is commonly used. I then used the Model M keyboard as an example of an input device on top of which we haven't seen much mainstream advancement over the past 2.5 decades.

Again, Paradigm. Seats dont need four legs and a seperate backrest to be a seat. My grandad uses one of the massive trackballs on his computer, it doesn't have a mouse, does this make it not a computer? Not having a standard mouse? Is a computer not a computer without an optical drive? Does a computer NEED a physical keyboard to be a computer?

People keep on going on how awesome it would be to have technologies like in Startrek, Stargate, Babylon 5 etc. Yet we seem to be as a culture stuck in a paradigm mind set that limits our advancement in computers.

The iPhone is not a computer. But now what you seem to have been asking for: if you argue that anything which computes is a computer then the Model M keyboard is a computer. What else is the 8048/8051 microcontroller therein?

A microcontroller is a computer. Who said a computer wasn't specialised or limited? Hell, super computers are some of the most awesome things on earth, yet they are often only doing one or two tasks. (Like that supercomputer trying to calculate Pi)

I'm arguing that people take computer for its real definition, and to break stale paradigms. But, considering that a lot of people also think computer science is all about computers(Hint its not, Computers are a tool, you could do an entire CS degree with a turing machine if you're that crazy), I'm not incredibly surprised if neither happen.
 
Guys, stop trying to define computers to be something specific. They are not. Computer is a very generic term. Microcontrollers, the PC, Macs, iPhones, Embedded devices, Enterprise networking gear, there are tons of computers around that are very much different from one another in both capabilities and computing capacity but all share the same based function of "computing stuff".

Both devices are computers, so you can stop the petty fighting. One just happens to be a phone, the other a personal general purpose computer.
 
I guess you did not have time to read my link to the IEEE paper. Those are unbiased independent experts. And the results is in their words (not mine) iPhone 4 performs better than iPhone3Gs. However noticeable is the large reception variability when holding firmly the iPhone 4. With the bumpers the reception is just astonishing. So, I guess here Apple has some work to do.
Sadly enough, apple haters/bashers usually don't read any link ...

If so, then Apple could and should be making videos showing that the iP4 antenna can be beneficial in some situations.

That would be a lot more impressive and positive tactic.

And a far, far better defense of the antenna than insanely pointing out that it can behave as badly as some other antennas.
You could be right, but I think they are just reacting at this insane mess about the antenna ...

BTW, you are one of the "iPhone basher" I like to speak with ;)
 
Guys, stop trying to define computers to be something specific. They are not. Computer is a very generic term. Microcontrollers, the PC, Macs, iPhones, Embedded devices, Enterprise networking gear, there are tons of computers around that are very much different from one another in both capabilities and computing capacity but all share the same based function of "computing stuff".

Both devices are computers, so you can stop the petty fighting. One just happens to be a phone, the other a personal general purpose computer.

Thank You!

In the broadest definition I could find, a computer was "A person or machine that performs mathematical operations." Oddly, the most specific definition that I could find only was "An electronic machine that can process data, usually in Binary."

EDIT: Damn, got myself all pumped up at midnight.
 
I can't offer any scientifically meaningful data on the technical merits of the argument, but I am very pleased with my iPhone 4. No issues whatsoever that I've found on my specific unit or that of two of my colleagues.

I am, however, intrigued by those who commented on the method by which Apple employed in response to the Attenna-gate matter.

Those who are against it, and feel that Apple should take the high road, I suspect must have a pretty good personal moral compass. (I'm being sincere.) However, Apple is a for-profit corporation. In the corporate world, the rules of conduct are very different. They must defend against all manner of hard-line tactics used by their competitors.

Imagine if the American colonists took the "high road" against the British? Or, the Vietnamese against the French and the Americans? Do you think the Vietnamese people would be ok to remain under the yoke of the French and say that at least they took the high road? Corporate competition isn't nearly as extreme as warfare between nations and peoples, but it surely can get very harsh. Apple must defend itself according to its own terms as a corporation, which is generally very different than individual personal conduct.
 
Android

...my friend's HTC Desire with Android 2.1 and yes, in some ways iOS4 is better, but in many ways the Android system is better - the phone is definitely faster, the widgets are great and hell - it can even play Flash. With the 2.2 update coming I think it will surpass iOS4...

If you buy a phone from HTC, you'll be lucky to see the latest update of Android on it 6 months after it's released, if ever! Consider yourself warned...
 
If you buy a phone from HTC, you'll be lucky to see the latest update of Android on it 6 months after it's released, if ever! Consider yourself warned...

Except the Magic and Dream, HTC phones got updates to 2.1, including the Hero. The Magic and Dream both had 3 updates, 1.0, 1.5 and 1.6.

Sounds like the iPhone to me. iPhone got 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 and the iPhone 3G didn't many of the new features of iOS 4.0. So seriously, what a bunk FUD argument. :rolleyes:
 
Except the Magic and Dream, HTC phones got updates to 2.1, including the Hero. The Magic and Dream both had 3 updates, 1.0, 1.5 and 1.6.

Sounds like the iPhone to me. iPhone got 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 and the iPhone 3G didn't many of the new features of iOS 4.0. So seriously, what a bunk FUD argument. :rolleyes:

I think randyoo is on about the amount of time it takes HTC to get updates to its phones.

The main reason I sold my Hero for the Nexus One was the appallingly long time it was taking them to get 2.1 to the Hero.

The HTC Dream being a stock phone had Android 1.5 and 1.6 for months while the Hero was left behind on 1.5. Even the lowly HTC Tattoo was released with Android 1.6. It is a sorry state of affairs and has put me off of any modded Android phones. Virgin Android from now on for me (apart from my Streak).
 
Yeah, I made sure the Desire was getting 2.2, I'm not too worried about updates a couple of years down the line as they usually surpass the capabilities of the phone (which I've usually upgraded from by then anyway).

Interesting comparison in operating systems from a pretty reliable (and generally neutral) source - http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/33891/ios4-vs-android-operating-systems

I'd imagine the iP5 will introduce such revolutionary items like Flash, Widgets, maybe even Google Streetview with compass facing functions built-in ;) - Seriously though - Facetime? My old Sony Ericsson K880 or something had a front camera for video calls about 6-7 years ago... Like I said before, the iP4 is a slick device but I can't help but feel it's just catching up in many ways hardware-wise, is already starting to lag behind OS-wise and only really leads the field on screen quality and looks at the moment. Apple are losing steam and most reviews consider the iP4 the best phone at the moment though still very close with the better Android phones which have been out for months, the next gen iPhone is going to have to go some to stay ahead.
 
I think randyoo is on about the amount of time it takes HTC to get updates to its phones.

The main reason I sold my Hero for the Nexus One was the appallingly long time it was taking them to get 2.1 to the Hero.

The HTC Dream being a stock phone had Android 1.5 and 1.6 for months while the Hero was left behind on 1.5. Even the lowly HTC Tattoo was released with Android 1.6. It is a sorry state of affairs and has put me off of any modded Android phones. Virgin Android from now on for me (apart from my Streak).

I think the most appalling wait is the Xperia X10. That would be my phone is Sony Ericsson could get off their asses. Their UI is very nice, but seriously, they are taking their sweet time shipping 2.1. And by the time the Xperia X10 will get it, 2.2 will be massively adopted elsewhere.

Samsung seems a safer bet, they announced a September timeframe for 2.2, like you said, stock Android vs customized UI.
 
The way the hand is hold the Droid X is absurd. The antenna for the Droid X is in the lower part of the phone. As others have said, the wrist is so far out that I'm sure nobody holds the phone like that, unless they are on speaker. It would simply push the phone away from your face, which I've never seen anyone do.

Instead of owning up, Apple is simply behaving like a child with the "Droid does it too!" arguments. Evidently they can dish heat but don't want to take it.
 
I think the most appalling wait is the Xperia X10. That would be my phone is Sony Ericsson could get off their asses. Their UI is very nice, but seriously, they are taking their sweet time shipping 2.1. And by the time the Xperia X10 will get it, 2.2 will be massively adopted elsewhere.

Samsung seems a safer bet, they announced a September timeframe for 2.2, like you said, stock Android vs customized UI.

I've got to agree. Releasing such a nice phone on an Android 1.6 base is such a let down. I hope Dell hurry up with 2.x on the Streak too.
 
And as usually you just ignore facts to fight your personal war against iPhone ...
In the video the Droid X is just held NORMALLY, and signal went from 3 down to ZERO bars.
These are facts.

Those are not the facts. Did you notice how the user's index finger was stretched out to wrap around the top of the phone, and his middle finger is spread apart from his other fingers? The Droid X had dual antennas, one at the bottom, and another at the top. The only way to attenuate both antennas is to hold the phone unnaturally. Isn't it curious that holding the Samsung Omnia II "naturally" doesn't involve spreading out your fingers and wrapping your index finger around the top of the phone?

The i4 dropped 4 bars prior to a bogus software patch. The Droid X hasn't made the bogus patch because they don't have issues like the iPhone 4 which warrant changing their algorithm to obtain the minimum bar drop possible.

The signal bars should not be spread out linearly like Apple has done in 4.0.1, but should focus on the narrower range where symptoms when placing calls start to occur.
 
in many ways the Android system is better - the phone is definitely faster, the widgets are great and hell - it can even play Flash.

Enjoy the banner ads. ;)

iPhone users should pull their heads out of the ground (to be polite), the World has caught up.

Congratulations "World!" We iPhone users kneel to the obvious supremacy of Android. :rolleyes:

Kudos on joining the great Google data mining machine. I imagine you will now join the ranks of the "ANDROID FTW! IPHONE IS TEH SUCK!" astroturfing commenter horde. Actually, you're off to a great start.

Enjoy.
 
Paradigm, look up the word. Compromise is person specific, I find using non-ergo shaped keyboards a compromise, yet its still an adequate conduit from human to computer by way of fingers.
Yet many people are able to enter data on them for hours a day every day. No-one works for 8 hours a day every day on an iPhone. Different people prefer different shapes of keyboard, but the presence of a keyboard remains. A 1.75" finger-touch screen is not a keyboard. Health&safety would beat down an employer who tried to make its employees think otherwise, and for good reason.

I for example, see the wave of MT smartphones as a HCI revolution.
OK. I don't. Maybe much HCI research is wrong and tactile feedback is unnecessary, but even then a 1.75" finger-touch screen is not an adequate replacement for something the size of two hands.

Bringing users away from the stale paradigm of the keyboard and mouse.
"Paradigm" needs a Godwin clause. What are you trying to achieve by replacing your keyboard with a tiny scratchpad?

The iphone is a computer running iPhone OS/Jailbreak/Linux/Android,
It has a CPU. So does my microwave. Feel free to argue that that's a computer too.

it still has a general purpose I/O,
It has very limited I/O. I'm going to hazard a guess that it has USB host support in the all-in-one but that the pins aren't physically connected. It lacks a suitable video connection. Even if you had the hardware, you'd still have to write the drivers.

the ability to remove iPhone OS/Jailbreak/Linux/Android
Only in the sense that any item has the "ability" to be changed into anything else with enough science, time and energy. Meanwhile I can install or write an alternative OS on an IBM-PC-descendant because it's full of hardware complying with open, published standards.

I don't think you know what ostensible means
I used precisely the word I meant. A "computer" is, to the public, one marketed as a general purpose electronic computing device. In principle the software and hardware are not tied together. In practice it might be quite hard for the average user to install a fully working Lunix onto a random computer unless the hardware is very mainsteam. But in theory there is nothing stopping him from doing so - it is ostensibly possible.

OTOH, on an iPhone it is ostensibly only possible to run an Apple OS and Apple Apps from the Apple App Store. This time, reality swings the other way - just as in reality I can reprogram a keyboard controller to act as a more general computing device but it's hard to do. And it's much harder to do on an iPhone than it could be in principle, even though others have made it fairly point'n'click to go some way to installing freely on it.


My grandad uses one of the massive trackballs on his computer, it doesn't have a mouse, does this make it not a computer?
Yeah, I used one of them for a few years. It is a viable mouse replacement. A 3.5" touchscreen isn't a viable mouse, keyboard and 24" LCD replacement.

Does a computer NEED a physical keyboard to be a computer?
From a layman's PoV, it will need to be usable as generally as today's desktop. If you can find a decent replacement for a physical keyboard, of course that's good enough.

People keep on going on how awesome it would be to have technologies like in Startrek, Stargate, Babylon 5 etc.
No, SF fanatics do. I'm fairly sure Star Trek didn't consider productivity, feedback mechanisms, RSI, etc when designing their interfaces. It's fiction. I'm sure that we will find something to replace keyboards, but we haven't yet.

A microcontroller is a computer.
Lame. Why not just define anything as a computer. Pretty much everything has an input, a process and an output.
 
Enjoy the banner ads. ;)



Congratulations "World!" We iPhone users kneel to the obvious supremacy of Android. :rolleyes:

Kudos on joining the great Google data mining machine. I imagine you will now join the ranks of the "ANDROID FTW! IPHONE IS TEH SUCK!" astroturfing commenter horde. Actually, you're off to a great start.

Enjoy.

Well the data mining thing doesn't worry me greatly, I've already noticed targeted ads just using the PC, Apple do it too though not to the same extent - unless you're routinely checking out kiddy porn or something then I don't really see what the fuss is - as it is pretty much any company can find out anything they like about me from my bank/phone company etc anyway. It's just the modern world we live in.

My point on the two OS is that Apple still makes the best, most user-friendly interface but the iP4 was no leap in that regard, where the Android phones that wouldn't have remotely interested me a couple of years back have pretty much caught up (and in some ways surpassed) the iOS. I only know from spending some time with a friend's HTC Desire last week to see if it was worth the exchange and it was far better than I thought. They may be able to data-mine me but I can also do what I like with the phone (even using my own choice of ringtones! That's like sooo much to ask right, oh no I have to pay a fee to do that? Come on Apple, really?). Performance-wise Android 2.2 is ahead too - I'm pretty neutral when it comes to products, I buy what is best in my price range, the iP4 should be best but it's flawed technically (it's been a problem for me) so I have checked out what else there is and the alternatives are far better than I knew. I'll probably come back for the iP5 and I'll probably buy an iMac to replace my current PC if they don't continue the Mac Mini trend of ramping the price up without current levels of performance.
 
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