I'm only "hung up" on that because that's what everything points to right now.
The current betas of Lion are simply DMGs with install files.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Targeting Mac App Store as 'Preferred' Mac OS X Lion Distribution Mechanism
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I'm only "hung up" on that because that's what everything points to right now.
The current betas of Lion are simply DMGs with install files.
yes, I'm sure we all read that. it doesn't really answer any questions though.
i have physical versions of iLife and iWork (or did, actually). my family lost our iWork disc. I still have it installed on my hard drive. I COULD buy it from the app store, but it'd cost me full price (again).
what if I buy Lion from the app store, then my computer fails or i replace the hard drive. yes, i do have the option of buying a physical disc, but i'd have to pay full price (again).
if they allow to app store version to be burned to disc or copied to USB drive, awesome, that'll solve the problem. however, so far this is being presented as a digital download, not an alternative means to get a physical copy.
If Lion is released through the Mac App Store then us here in the UK will get it cheaper, since App Store prices are always less expensive than in the US (in the UK). For once, we may get a new Apple product that costs less.
I would still far prefer a physical backup like the USB key rather than having a virtual copy or a physical copy I have to create from the download.
I would still far prefer a physical backup like the USB key rather than having a virtual copy or a physical copy I have to create from the download.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8C148)
Copy it to a USB drive or disc. Why would you keep downloading it?
a.phoenicis said:Here's my problem with this distribution method for an OS:
I have 4 Macs in my house. Previously, I'd buy a Family License DVD and go from machine to machine installing it.
If I have to DL it from the App Store, I've got to download it 4 times! I don't care about paying for multiple licenses... I do care about blowing out my internet bandwidth downloading the same multi-gigabyte file 4 times.
There had better be a physical-media option!
Copy it to a USB drive or disc. Why would you keep downloading it?
What I don't understand is even if it's distributed through the Mac App Store, does Apple expect us to burn it on dvd or make a bootable usb?
I don't know if every mac user will even be able to do that, this may work for those looking to upgrade, but a fresh install will require dvd/usb..
I don't know if every mac user will even be able to do that, this may work for those looking to upgrade, but a fresh install will require dvd/usb..
I wish all software was handled through a single entry point, like the App Store. That way updates are handled through it, instead of a series of unrelated and often annoying separate updaters. Never understood why this wasn't more of a priority 5+ years ago, even.
Usually, "Preferred" means one will be more readily available (download) than the other (Physical).
So will this mean waiting in long lines and trying to beat scalpers?
Apple items are the quickest way of making money lately...
So will this mean waiting in long lines and trying to beat scalpers?
Apple items are the quickest way of making money lately...
Except that NOTHING points to that right now. There has never been an OS for sale on the app store before. Assuming that it will be handled exactly the same as an app is lunacy.
This reminds me of the thread a couple weeks back about FCS where the "professional experts" were all ranting because they assumed that since only Final Cut was shown it meant all the other apps in the suite were discontinued, and assumed that any feature that wasn't shown in the presentation was removed from the app.
This problem has been solved by the digital download business for years. Since every Mac, with the exception of the MB Air, comes with a standard superdrive, the consumer could burn their own copy for emergencies. Alternatively, there is usually a small fee to be sent a physical disc from the software provider.
While everyone has wildly different experiences with this-- I personally have not needed a Mac install DVD for an re-install / emergency in over 6 years.
Because they're developer previews. Their sole purpose is to get them quickly into the hands of devlopers who can determine if their apps "break" under Lion and fix them, as well as to get some feedback from those same developers about the look and feel of the new OS. The distribution method, as it stands now, is not necessarily one for consumer use.
what makes you think that you can copy it to a USB drive or disc? I have disc for Tiger, Leopard, and Snow Leopard. None of those disc can be copied, some of them can only be used on their original machine (or the exact model). the past 3 OSes can't be copied, and so far there's nothing to suggest we can just make backup copies of Lion.
There's no reason Apple couldn't make creating a bootable recovery disk as easy as the installation itself. Make it a menu item in the install software, then ask the user to insert the blank disk.
For something that's also available as a download? Extremely unlikely.
The new version will be a download as opposed to the previous releases on disk. That's what makes me think it can be copied to other disks. And you probably can copy any of the previous OS install disks, I'm not sure why you assume it's impossible.
Nothing suggests we can't either.
Of the past 3 OSes you cite, only one of them has been released since Apple got serious about digital distribution with the iPhone App store. We're :gasp: entering unprecedented territory here folks. Just because something could or couldn't be done before doesn't mean it can or can't be done in Lion.
If you drive to the store to buy it instead, should they pay for your gas?
If you order it online, should they pay you for the bit of bandwidth that you used up in placing your order?
Maybe you'll be eco-friendly and walk to the store instead? Bill 'em for new soles on your shoes!
Oh really?
As an aside: The disks that only work with one computer are the ones that ship with new macs. No upgrade* disks sold in the Apple Store have that restriction, and there's no reason to assume the mac app store would be any different.
*The "upgrade" disks are full installs, but since the only legal way to install OSX is to install it on a mac that already came with a version of OSX, all standalone disks are technically upgrades.
In 3 years there will be no "PREFERRED" anything with Macs. Everything that is installed on Mac will come from the App Store. It WILL BE the EXCLUSIVE method of loading ANYTHING on Macs. OS X will become exactly like iOS and ALL of you will just happily accept it. I expect to see statements on Macrumors like "Oh how wonderful it is that Steve is looking after us and protecting us from the evil world of Malware that those crappy PC's get. Thanks Steve for looking out for us and our elegant, delicious, sexy, and magical devices"......
I am all for buying software via download. I rarely get boxed versions of anything any more. But the OS is a different story. You need an external media for maintenance/reinstall. Also, the Mac App Store is not friendly to businesses yet. Until they have robust setups for master accounts and per seat licenses, it's not a viable distribution method for business customers.
And while Apple is also selling physical media with this version, it's pretty obvious that they won't bother with it next version of the OS. It's the same thing they did with the switch to DVD media in 10.4. To get CDs that worked on the DVD-less computers that were only a couple years old, you had to send Apple your DVD and get CDs mailed to you, which was a major pain. Apple has a long history of killing technologies quickly and giving the customers with older computers the shaft.
Even if they charge more for physical media, they should continue to offer it in the long term. I'd love to see something like the USB stick that comes with the Macbook Airs and I'd be willing to pay extra for it. Optical media really needs to just die already. DVDs and CDs are awful for data storage.
And while Apple is also selling physical media with this version, it's pretty obvious that they won't bother with it next version of the OS. It's the same thing they did with the switch to DVD media in 10.4. To get CDs that worked on the DVD-less computers that were only a couple years old, you had to send Apple your DVD and get CDs mailed to you, which was a major pain. Apple has a long history of killing technologies quickly and giving the customers with older computers the shaft.
Even if they charge more for physical media, they should continue to offer it in the long term. I'd love to see something like the USB stick that comes with the Macbook Airs and I'd be willing to pay extra for it. Optical media really needs to just die already. DVDs and CDs are awful for data storage.
Different perspective - Apple's motive
It's good to see the debate on the best delivery mechanism for large software releases such as this; there are clearly benefits for Apple to push it through the infrastructure they already have in place.
In my opinion, this is just another nail in the coffin for Apple resellers. Not content with giving single-digit margins on hardware, Apple is now actively removing another method of generating revenue. Software has better reseller margins (~15-20%) than hardware, but Apple's progress with the App store has seen key applications (iWork, iLife) on there for a substantial discount.
There are no reseller/affiliate arrangements for the App store, and resellers can't compete with their discount offerings (as Apple set both wholesale and retail pricing). As a result, resellers business will be affected, and continue to be affected if they continue down this path.
</rant>
*Disclaimer: I'm an Apple reseller
It's good to see the debate on the best delivery mechanism for large software releases such as this; there are clearly benefits for Apple to push it through the infrastructure they already have in place.
In my opinion, this is just another nail in the coffin for Apple resellers. Not content with giving single-digit margins on hardware, Apple is now actively removing another method of generating revenue. Software has better reseller margins (~15-20%) than hardware, but Apple's progress with the App store has seen key applications (iWork, iLife) on there for a substantial discount.
There are no reseller/affiliate arrangements for the App store, and resellers can't compete with their discount offerings (as Apple set both wholesale and retail pricing). As a result, resellers business will be affected, and continue to be affected if they continue down this path.
</rant>
*Disclaimer: I'm an Apple reseller
What if you have or want to re-format your Mac? I hope Apple would also give you a utility that will package the OS into a bootable installer that you can copy to a USB flash drive. Or maybe that is what you would be downloading, just an image to be copied to a DVD/USB drive as I doubt you could install the OS like an app would (download, pop up in the dock, done).
I guess we will see how things go when Apple release it.
I guess we will see how things go when Apple release it.
All OS's can be copied. I copied all my Leopard Tiger original discs without any issues. Also the current Lion previews can be copied as many times as you want to.
So I guess we'll all just send you our AT&T Internet Bills when we go over their newly implemented data usage caps?
Absolutely. Send 'em right over and I'll know precisely what to do with 'em.
Seriously, I don't see why anyone would object. This is merely another option for getting OS X. It adds to our choices. This is not right for you? Use the traditional method. Nobody loses.
So I guess we'll all just send you our AT&T Internet Bills when we go over their newly implemented data usage caps?
You sound like every Mac OS X user is located in the US.
And I'm fine with that. Bought Aperture when the Mac App Store debuted because of the new price. However, while people will say "partition your drive for OS and Apps and another partition for data so that you can wipe the OS partition for installs, etc." - because I like to do a clean install of the OS when I get it, and typically with a new machine I still reinstall it without all the languages, print drivers, fonts I won't ever need, I don't want to get a new iMac now and then in a couple months install Lion clean after just setting up the new machine. I'll wait. Get the new iMac with Lion. Wipe the OS and reinstall it slimmed down. Then add my Apps and data.