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Apple Targeting Mac App Store as 'Preferred' Mac OS X Lion Distribution Mechanism

shaolindave said:
0% Operating Systems in the app store, yet somehow you know exactly how their going to change their politicly on both app store sales and general OS sales, while no one else has any hint that they're be any changes at all.
Click to expand...

He's just disagreeing with the notion that Apple somehow can't or won't make any adjustments when they start selling a radically different product through their app store. And common sense is on his side.

Nobody knows anything yet about how the release will work, nothing is announced. Is it really so unreasonable to wait until actual information exists before having a hissy fit?

Not to mention that it's a moot point anyway - if you're scared of the download version (regardless of the specifics), JUST BUY THE DVD.
 
Daveoc64 said:
My opposition to this isn't because I think Digital Distribution is bad (the copy of Windows 7 I'm writing this on was downloaded, legally I might add, from Microsoft), it's because of how Apple is offering it.

I was able to download a .iso of Windows and install it how I wanted to. I was able to back up the .iso to an external hard drive and also to burn a copy of it.

The App Store (unless they change things) wouldn't allow that. I would have no problem with this if Apple included a way to create a DVD or USB installer from the download.
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Oh! I see. I can agree to that.

If Apple does not allow that, I might as well go out and buy the DVD or USB for such a purpose.
 
ksgant said:
I didn't know this. You mean I have to have an OS installed before I play Angry Birds?
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Not just to play, you have to have an OS installed before you even install Angry Birds.

Fortunately, you don't have to have Angry Birds installed before you install Angry Birds, or else you'd never get Angry Birds installed.

Unless the downloaded Lion allows you to make a physical install disc (or USB drive), then you'll have to install OS X before you can install OS X.
 
maclaptop said:
The number of lazy, complacent, disorganized, people that "don't want a disc lying around, or "don't want to keep track of one, is just hilarious.

Or sad, depending on how you look at it.

I'm not surprised that Apple plans to distribute it this way, since it gives them one more reason to trumpet their "fantastic Mac App store". Yeah right.

Apple is dumbing down every step of the process.

How long before it will be "too much work" to sit in front of the computer?
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Wow, what a great job to completely and unfairly judge people.

I consider myself OCD level organized. One of the reasons why I am so organized (more so than ever now) is because much of my media and software have transitioned to digital.

You have a very negative spin on Apple's approach. Instead of "dumbing down", I'll call it "simplifying", and I absolutely welcome the change.
 
Old news. I knew this three weeks ago and I send an anonymous email to these idiots and of course they ignored it
 
Icaras said:
Wow, what a great job to completely and unfairly judge people.

I consider myself OCD level organized. One of the reasons why I am so organized (more so than ever now) is because much of my media and software have transitioned to digital.

You have a very negative spin on Apple's approach. Instead of "dumbing down", I'll call it "simplifying", and I absolutely welcome the change.
Click to expand...

I to have OCD, but I also realize that's its not hard providing an option for people to burn a copy of their digital download to a cd or disk. So far, as we know, they wont be allowing that.

It doesn't make things harder, complicated or confusing providing such an option.
 
dethmaShine said:
Oh! I see. I can agree to that.

If Apple does not allow that, I might as well go out and buy the DVD or USB for such a purpose.
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If Apple does not allow that, then a failed hard drive would mean that the only way to install your legal copy of OS X would be to buy a second copy of OS X. Hopefully they see the flaws and will do something about it.
 
shaolindave said:
0% Operating Systems in the app store, yet somehow you know exactly how their going to change their politicly on both app store sales and general OS sales, while no one else has any hint that they're be any changes at all.

what else can you see in that crystal ball of yours?
Click to expand...

Thank you for making my point for me. Last time I checked you were the one making predictions that Lion was going to be handled in the store exactly like every other app.

All I am saying is that there is no proof to point either way at the moment. But coming to a conclusion that Lion is going to be handled like every other app is like concluding that the iPhone SDK, when released, was going to be exactly like "web apps" were previously.
 
Icaras said:
Wow, what a great job to completely and unfairly judge people.

I consider myself OCD level organized. One of the reasons why I am so organized (more so than ever now) is because much of my media and software have transitioned to digital.

You have a very negative spin on Apple's approach. Instead of "dumbing down", I'll call it "simplifying", and I absolutely welcome the change.
Click to expand...

My family lost all their disc and some of mine. No matter how organized I am, so long as I have to do the 'family tech support' stuff, no disc is a plus.
 
DeaconGraves said:
Thank you for making my point for me. Last time I checked you were the one making predictions that Lion was going to be handled in the store exactly like every other app.

All I am saying is that there is no proof to point either way at the moment. But coming to a conclusion that Lion is going to be handled like every other app is like concluding that the iPhone SDK, when released, was going to be exactly like "web apps" were previously.
Click to expand...

i "predict" the next car i buy will have four wheels.

i don't "predict" that Lion will be handled the same as every other App Store product, but there's reason to believe it will be, and that's a cause for concern.

please stop putting words in my mouth.
 
DeaconGraves said:
Thank you for making my point for me. Last time I checked you were the one making predictions that Lion was going to be handled in the store exactly like every other app.

All I am saying is that there is no proof to point either way at the moment. But coming to a conclusion that Lion is going to be handled like every other app is like concluding that the iPhone SDK, when released, was going to be exactly like "web apps" were previously.
Click to expand...

No wonder, making a prediction is such a big crime. :rolleyes:
 
milo said:
He's just disagreeing with the notion that Apple somehow can't or won't make any adjustments when they start selling a radically different product through their app store. And common sense is on his side.

Nobody knows anything yet about how the release will work, nothing is announced. Is it really so unreasonable to wait until actual information exists before having a hissy fit?

Not to mention that it's a moot point anyway - if you're scared of the download version (regardless of the specifics), JUST BUY THE DVD.
Click to expand...

i'm not disagreeing with anyone on anything. stop putting words in my mouth.

i'm saying that anyone who assumes that apple will make adjustments when they start selling a radically different product through their app store might want to wait until the adjustments are actually made. If you buy the digital download, and apple doesn't make adjustments, you'll be in a bad situation when you need to do a fresh install.
 
shaolindave said:
cons: what if i want to format the hard drive and restart from scratch? or even just archive and install? what if i completely replace my hard drive? what if i want to sell my mac and get a new one, would i retain the license or would the buyer get it? how would they reinstall the OS after I wipe the hard drive? how long is this going to take to download? will we be able and authorized to burn our own install DVDs from the downloaded software?
Click to expand...

It'd be cool for Apple to start building a small, fast SSD "drive" (memory chips) into every Mac, that would be dedicated to the core System, and only the System. Small enough to be inexpensive, large enough to easily accommodate current and future System files, fast enough to be faster than any current hard drive. Make the drive say 32-64 GB, with two partitions. One partition holds the installed System, the other partition is just scratch space for downloaded and uninstalled software, including the System itself. Possibly this partition contains some minimal boot system in order to re-download and install the package from the app store in case the installation gets botched.
 
shaolindave said:
i "predict" the next car i buy will have four wheels.

i don't "predict" that Lion will be handled the same as every other App Store product, but there's reason to believe it will be, and that's a cause for concern.

please stop putting words in my mouth.
Click to expand...

But that's the point, there is no reason to believe that it will be handled like every other app. Because it's not an app!

Your car analogy is perfect. If all cars have four wheels, and your next vehicle is a car, then you can logically predict it has four wheels.

But if all cars have four wheels, and your next vehcile is a Segway, you can't conclude that the Segway will have four wheels. Because its not a car.

You can't logically predict that Lion on the App Store will have to follow the rules of the other Apps. Lion does not fit the definition of any other product currently on the store. It's an operating system with different issues to deal with than a simple app.

As I mentioned previously, I can't conclude that it will be handled differently, but I also can't conclude it will be handled the same. I can only guess that Apple recognizes the issue regarding system restore and will handle it in some fashion.
 
HiRez said:
It'd be cool for Apple to start building a small, fast SSD "drive" (memory chips) into every Mac, that would be dedicated to the core System, and only the System. Small enough to be inexpensive, large enough to easily accommodate current and future System files, fast enough to be faster than any current hard drive. Make the drive say 32-64 GB, with two partitions. One partition holds the installed System, the other partition is just scratch space for downloaded and uninstalled software, including the System itself. Possibly this partition contains some minimal boot system in order to re-download and install the package from the app store in case the installation gets botched.
Click to expand...

I would love this. I remember the old Commodore 64 days when the OS was on ROM chips and it was an instant boot. Nowadays that wouldn't be very practical with OS updates, but something similar would be great.
Imagine being able to do a complete system restore and have a barebones OS be unaffected.
 
HiRez said:
It'd be cool for Apple to start building a small, fast SSD "drive" (memory chips) into every Mac, that would be dedicated to the core System, and only the System. Small enough to be inexpensive, large enough to easily accommodate current and future System files, fast enough to be faster than any current hard drive. Make the drive say 32 GB, with two partitions. One partition holds the installed System, the other partition is just scratch space for downloaded and uninstalled software, including the System itself. Possibly this partition contains some minimal boot system in order to re-download and install the package from the app store in case the installation gets botched.
Click to expand...

I think that has been the idea in the recent disclosures. In my opinion, with the next iMac refresh/redesign, Apple will incorporate a small SSD for system tasks. But I don't think Apple will waste a partition of the expensive and intelligent SSD for just an OS Install.

SSD caching is going to be very important in the future so wasting 4 or 8 gigs of space for no reason sounds a bit stupid to be honest.

But on the same track, Apple could well include the OS in a partition on the HDD itself. Why not? Instead of giving 995.5 GB (out of TB) to users after the OS install, give 990GB. For a user buying more than 500GB of HDD or HDD+SSD combined, it doesn't make much a difference; also make it optional.

I think I did mention this in one of my previous posts that Apple should keep the OS in the HDD itself so there's no need of a disc in most situations.
 
mmomega said:
I haven't found a way to burn or make it bootable since they don't offer a full dmg file on the developer page like they did with SL.
Click to expand...
The .dmg is inside the installer package. It's a simple matter to burn that to disc or restore it to a USB drive and do a clean install.
 
HiRez said:
It'd be cool for Apple to start building a small, fast SSD "drive" (memory chips) into every Mac, that would be dedicated to the core System, and only the System. Small enough to be inexpensive, large enough to easily accommodate current and future System files, fast enough to be faster than any current hard drive. Make the drive say 32-64 GB, with two partitions. One partition holds the installed System, the other partition is just scratch space for downloaded and uninstalled software, including the System itself. Possibly this partition contains some minimal boot system in order to re-download and install the package from the app store in case the installation gets botched.
Click to expand...

What an Excellent Idea !

Cheers :)
 
I said it in the other thread : All for a download version of OS X Lion, but it should not be through the app store like the current DP. Checkout should provide you with a disc image that you burn to your own DVD/USB Thumb drive.

It's how Linux distributions have been doing it for the last 10 years.

Or if it really must be through the app store, provide a small disc image download that when booted off of, just provides an interface to sign-in to the App Store and install Lion, like RedHat was doing in 1996 with its "NetInstall" floppies that were just an installer than fetched its media over FTP or NFS.
 
DeaconGraves said:
But that's the point, there is no reason to believe that it will be handled like every other app. Because it's not an app!

Your car analogy is perfect. If all cars have four wheels, and your next vehicle is a car, then you can logically predict it has four wheels.

But if all cars have four wheels, and your next vehcile is a Segway, you can't conclude that the Segway will have four wheels. Because its not a car.

You can't logically predict that Lion on the App Store will have to follow the rules of the other Apps. Lion does not fit the definition of any other product currently on the store. It's an operating system with different issues to deal with than a simple app.

As I mentioned previously, I can't conclude that it will be handled differently, but I also can't conclude it will be handled the same. I can only guess that Apple recognizes the issue regarding system restore and will handle it in some fashion.
Click to expand...

IF they handle it differently, cool. IF they don't handle it differently, there'll be problems.

that's what i've been saying all along, yet you're flaming me.
 
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