Mattie Num Nums
macrumors 68030
The computers are fine its all the others thing mentioned above.
Apple Targeting Small Business Customers at Retail Stores
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The computers are fine its all the others thing mentioned above.
Mattie Num Nums
macrumors 68030
Yeah all of our Mac Pro users have started using i7 iMacs
Well, if you're not a tech, then it probably doesn't matter to you. And I don't know why a company moving to Macs would suddenly make them less knowledgable about technology. I don't know why working on WIndows would make them MORE knowledgable about technology.
dernhelm
macrumors 68000
I agree with you completely. Businesses just don't want to operate that way and will not play that game.
I don't think Apple plans on actually discontinuing the Mac Pro, but I agree a refresh is long overdue. I wish Apple saw this as a problem that they need to address. No one wants to pay premium prices for hardware that outdated. Either find a way to drop the prices as the hardware ages, or update the hardware more often. If they did that, Mac Pro's sales would skyrocket.
Stella
macrumors G3
I'm sure the the Mac Pro will continue, for the sake of Final Cut Pro and other heavy apps. It is an easy assumption to make that Apple will let them die - they haven't showed any commitment to the Mac Pros - apart from keeping them at the same price as they were released at.
logandzwon
macrumors 6502a
I have delt with Microsoft licensing enough to know that calling my apple rep and telling I want to upgrade my x number of workstations and x number of servers, send the PO, is a lot easier and cheaper then dealing with MS's double licenses, price shopping, negotiating with multiple vendors. I agree with the VMs thing, however, Apple does allow virtual servers on apple hardware... They need to allow virtulization of the Apple client, at lest on mac hardware.
PerfSeeker
macrumors 6502a
Targeting them with what?
Expensive, out of date hardware, slow upgrade cycles,
extemely limited model range, absurdly limited hardware options,
and completely missing new technologies?
Yeah, small business are going to be all over that.
This, but Apple fans will never admit the reality. Apple will never be more then a sliver in the enterprise because they just don't have any range of offerings.
PerfSeeker
macrumors 6502a
Whatever sales Apple can make into the enterprise they will without compromising their aesthetic principle. Which means no desktop that isn't an iMac.
Mal
macrumors 603
With the exception of a very small selection of businesses that need the latest and greatest, most companies don't care if their computers are running with all of the latest technology. Support and quality are what they need, along with compatibility. Apple already beats all other manufacturers hands-down in the first two areas, but they've been lacking in the latter (not really their fault entirely, but here's hoping their putting more effort into it). With this new push, they can help bring attention to the areas they do well, and encourage developers to focus on the latter by growing the market for business software on the Mac. It's a bit of a chicken and egg type problem, but if Apple can successfully get more small businesses to switch to the Mac, then software titles will begin to be ported or written for the Mac. The important ones, I mean, not just games or word processors. There isn't any good financial software for the Mac, for instance, unless you get something like MYOB AccountEdge, which is more complex than many small business owners need (they would probably have to hire someone to set it up, same with FileMaker and other similar programs).
I'm looking forward to hopeful changes in this arena if Apple truly begins to make this a focus.
jW
Mattie Num Nums
macrumors 68030
With out Microsoft SA we get it all for X amount of years. No calling no haggling no nothing.
Really. You never had a single computer problem thereafter?
You're either deluded, or lying, or fired.
(I realize you are talking small business, and this doesn't necessarily apply)
Let me preface this: I am in charge of 6700 OS X Clients globally at a Fortune 5 company. Compared to the 22,000 Windows machines we also support, the Macs present a unique and unrefined experience.
While I agree with you that the functionality is there -- Apple Remote Desktop does not scale to the enterprise. It does not compare to a product like CA ITCM (ITAM). Managing more than 150 workstations in ARD is a nightmare. Deploying patches to remote sites (a sales site connected to your datacenters via T1, for example) is painful without the ability to position a remote staging server. Each ARD installation is standalone.
Active Directory integration is weak at best. At random points, 10.6.x clients will fail to recognize AD Group based administrative privileges. One minute, you're an admin on your local box -- the next, you're not. Configuration stays the same. Using a third party tool helps -- Likewise has been the best integration we've used thus far -- but this is something that needs to be native and not tacked on.
Exchange support is also incredibly weak. Mail.app and Exchange 2007 is a huge step in the right direction, but very few Enterprises have moved past Exchange 2003 at this point. Most are skipping 2007 in lieu of 2010, and the only other alternative (while not directly Apple's fault) is Entourage 2004/2008. Both are pigs and are miserable in comparison to Outlook. Early testing of Office 2011 & Outlook for the Mac have been very promising, but it still lags behind Office 2010 in the Windows world.
Larger organizations that keep exchange accounts in a separate domain than login accounts run into issues with calendaring in the native OS 10.6 apps as well as in Entourage.
The Wireless Client on the Mac has severe weaknesses around 802.1x authentication. It does not integrate well with lightweight wireless deployments. Older access points don't support multi-cast DNS, which is required for Bonjour, and by default in a Cisco lightweight deployment these features are disabled. It's an annoyance but can be overcome at least.
Apple refuses to provide adequate support to the enterprise. They are so far behind in their enterprise support model, it will take one hell of an investment to put them on par with the rest of the industry.
I love Apple, and I deal with their shortcomings for a living. It just feels like they are so close to playing in the enterprise, but there's always a catch
seven2k7
macrumors member
Not what i said. I said that techs get paid for less than the industry standard. Look at the turn around rate at the store. Go in every 6 months and see how many new employees are there. Apple wil be sneaky and consider them "retail" employees which will suck trust me.
Also, i left to be a tech at a university for both PC and Mac. So tech is in my job title and description. =)
Mattie Num Nums
macrumors 68030
Right there with you. I work for a similar company and we feel EVERYTHING you feel.
mattster16
macrumors 6502a
The new Uptown Apple store in Minneapolis actually has a mock conference room to show off Apple product uses for a small business. Apparently it's the first of its kind so far, but it shows the direction Apple is trying to move in.
Mattie Num Nums
macrumors 68030
A mock conference room is nothing. How about some real benefits in the actual product.
We spent more money in IT help when we had PC's than it cost to convert everyone to Macs. Here is what I did:
I now can actually focus on my business instead of screwing around with PC's. Also, it is fun to spend more time doing creative stuff with Aperture and Final Cut.
Can all this be done with PC's? Sure. But I would quit first. And who would run this place?
- Bought low end MacMinis and upgraded them with 500gb 7200rpm drives and 8gb ram. They replaced all the cranky PC's. Each one is driving two 24-inch high-end displays.
- Replaced my Dell server running MS Small Business Server 2003 with DropBox. No more server. No more downloading Microsoft updates that crash the system.
- Outsourced our email to a Kerio based system that emulates Exchange. Next day, the server stopped running. Do you think it knew what was happening?
- Haven't spent a dime on IT help since.
- Bought a MacMini server to support stuff not on DropBox and a contact manager.
- Replaced all the PC laptops for field people with MacBooks running FileVault so I don't have to worry about important docs getting into the wrong hands if a MacBook is stolen. All our internal Macs are running FileVault as well for same reason. Also encrypted backup drives with Disk Utility
I now can actually focus on my business instead of screwing around with PC's. Also, it is fun to spend more time doing creative stuff with Aperture and Final Cut.
Can all this be done with PC's? Sure. But I would quit first. And who would run this place?
Mattie Num Nums
macrumors 68030
That is what we would call a "Mickey Mouse" set up. Sounds to me as though it was more of a lack of how to properly setup the environment that anything. BTW trusting your business safety with File Vault is like playing russian roulette.
ericinboston
macrumors 68020
In some ways I have to laugh at this...that Apple is hoping small business will "...adopt the company's Mac platform for their operations."
Keep on hoping, Apple.
So, like, what business platform software does a Mac run? No, I'm not talking about MS Office or Firefox. Real-world apps for finance departments, sales, marketing, customer relationship management apps, etc...I'm sure businesses with only 10 people can run some $89 software package to pay their bills, but "small businesses" are not just 10-person companies...some are 50+ persons.
It's one thing to buy business computers to surf the web, send some emails, and run MS Office...it's another to actually connect all your employees to true business applications. Not to mention that a business is now going to have to find an IT person who will support 100% Macs?...email, networking, hardware, end user desktop support, end user hardware support, security, etc? I'm sure someone will reply here that "there is no support needed because Apple is just so awesome!" But hey, maybe it's time to start up an IT outsourcing gig that specializes in only Macs.
Also, depending on what the small business NEEDS the computer to do, they may certainly not plunk down 3x more money for a Mac than for a PC (for example if they only need their employees to answer email and do web-based stuff...any personal computer on the planet can do that). Small businesses tend not to have money to blow on expensive alternatives. My uncle, on one hand, has owned his own business for over 30 years...small 5 man shop...1 computer...a Mac...that only he touches. Always has been a Mac, always will.
Apple has been out of the business sector, in reality, for decades...I really do not see them ever getting back in other than an extremely small marketshare percentage (Apple's general personal computer marketshare has been below 10% for like 20+ years...Apple's current business marketshare must be at like 0.4% or lower).
-Eric
Keep on hoping, Apple.
So, like, what business platform software does a Mac run? No, I'm not talking about MS Office or Firefox. Real-world apps for finance departments, sales, marketing, customer relationship management apps, etc...I'm sure businesses with only 10 people can run some $89 software package to pay their bills, but "small businesses" are not just 10-person companies...some are 50+ persons.
It's one thing to buy business computers to surf the web, send some emails, and run MS Office...it's another to actually connect all your employees to true business applications. Not to mention that a business is now going to have to find an IT person who will support 100% Macs?...email, networking, hardware, end user desktop support, end user hardware support, security, etc? I'm sure someone will reply here that "there is no support needed because Apple is just so awesome!"
But hey, maybe it's time to start up an IT outsourcing gig that specializes in only Macs. Also, depending on what the small business NEEDS the computer to do, they may certainly not plunk down 3x more money for a Mac than for a PC (for example if they only need their employees to answer email and do web-based stuff...any personal computer on the planet can do that). Small businesses tend not to have money to blow on expensive alternatives.
My uncle, on one hand, has owned his own business for over 30 years...small 5 man shop...1 computer...a Mac...that only he touches. Always has been a Mac, always will.Apple has been out of the business sector, in reality, for decades...I really do not see them ever getting back in other than an extremely small marketshare percentage (Apple's general personal computer marketshare has been below 10% for like 20+ years...Apple's current business marketshare must be at like 0.4% or lower).
-Eric
Will never work IMO.
Apple doesn't sell a "server", they sell a overpriced NAS device with OSx Server on it.
Windows Server does so much more than just file/print serving It is a center piece of a systems network.
For all those saying how Windows updates crash servers, all hearsay or you don't set them up right. We manage tons of Windows Servers and Microsoft is dead on reliable, especially Server 2008. Their enterprise support is amazing. I've talked to Apple's enterprise support, it is a complete and utter joke. As soon as the hear Windows Server they want to get off the phone, well in a business environment everyone plays nice, if it doesn't we get rid of who doesn't play with others.
I install about 2-3 per month for customers and I could never recommend anything except for them.
Now if Apple finally decided to make AD integration work properly then I don't see a problem integrating a Mac computer into a MS AD environment.
We approach our smaller customers the same as an enterprise customer. The server does all the heavy work. managing updates, security, remote access, remote desktop services, etc.
The iPhone has excelled partly because it works so well with Exchange. I'd tell my customers looking for a solid long term laptop to look at a MB Pro, but the AD integration has to be better.
Office 2011 will take them a long way too, but I'm still trying to figure out SharePoint integration and tons of small businesses are starting to use SharePoint.
Apple doesn't sell a "server", they sell a overpriced NAS device with OSx Server on it.
Windows Server does so much more than just file/print serving It is a center piece of a systems network.
For all those saying how Windows updates crash servers, all hearsay or you don't set them up right. We manage tons of Windows Servers and Microsoft is dead on reliable, especially Server 2008. Their enterprise support is amazing. I've talked to Apple's enterprise support, it is a complete and utter joke. As soon as the hear Windows Server they want to get off the phone, well in a business environment everyone plays nice, if it doesn't we get rid of who doesn't play with others.
I install about 2-3 per month for customers and I could never recommend anything except for them.
Now if Apple finally decided to make AD integration work properly then I don't see a problem integrating a Mac computer into a MS AD environment.
We approach our smaller customers the same as an enterprise customer. The server does all the heavy work. managing updates, security, remote access, remote desktop services, etc.
The iPhone has excelled partly because it works so well with Exchange. I'd tell my customers looking for a solid long term laptop to look at a MB Pro, but the AD integration has to be better.
Office 2011 will take them a long way too, but I'm still trying to figure out SharePoint integration and tons of small businesses are starting to use SharePoint.
ssmed
macrumors 6502a
Welcome - but so far to go
I am on the business contact list of my two relatively equidistant Apple stores. What does this mean - they email every now and again about Filemaker Pro and that's about it. There is more to business than this database!
When at the store buying a mini-mac server as an additional fileserver I was talking with the business 'guru' or whatever they are called and mentioned that we used 4D (4th Dimension) extensively and he had no knowledge of the product and was not really interested. He should have been keen to know, to understand what can be done on the Mac with an excellent program
In the UK there are virtually no book-keeping/banking applications for the Mac and if Apple really want to get into small business this is essential. We have a bespoke system in 4D (with all our other business records), but this would be inappropriate for many people.
I await this new initiative with bated breath, but until then Jigsaw in Nottingham do an excellent job and are to be recommended.
I am on the business contact list of my two relatively equidistant Apple stores. What does this mean - they email every now and again about Filemaker Pro and that's about it. There is more to business than this database!
When at the store buying a mini-mac server as an additional fileserver I was talking with the business 'guru' or whatever they are called and mentioned that we used 4D (4th Dimension) extensively and he had no knowledge of the product and was not really interested. He should have been keen to know, to understand what can be done on the Mac with an excellent program
In the UK there are virtually no book-keeping/banking applications for the Mac and if Apple really want to get into small business this is essential. We have a bespoke system in 4D (with all our other business records), but this would be inappropriate for many people.
I await this new initiative with bated breath, but until then Jigsaw in Nottingham do an excellent job and are to be recommended.