Apple Tax: Hardware comparison

jrlcopy

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 20, 2007
465
266
So, without getting into the whole, apple has a prettier case, I like OSX, etc... The new 'Apple Tax' on these new mac pros is huge.

COMPARING ONLY HARDWARE POWER the NEW baseline New Mac Pro uses the X3500 Xeon series chips, which is comparable to a HP Z400 workstation. You can configure a comparable HP workstation (With Quadro Professional Card not ATI consumer) for $1733, while the Apple workstation is $2499.

The HP z400 gives you the same amount of PCI express slots, same RAM capabilities, same hard drive bays but in an 'uglier case' :(.
 

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
66,390
33,009
Boston
So, without getting into the whole, apple has a prettier case...
same hard drive bays but in an 'uglier case' :(.
so you discount the case for the MacPro but complain about the other case :confused:

I wonder if apple is looking to slowly ween people off the MP and onto the iMac as its positioning the MP in such away that it makes little sense to drop a huge amount of $$
 

jrlcopy

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 20, 2007
465
266
so you discount the case for the MacPro but complain about the other case :confused:

I wonder if apple is looking to slowly ween people off the MP and onto the iMac as its positioning the MP in such away that it makes little sense to drop a huge amount of $$
I actually prefer the Z800 case over the Mac Pro case, but the z400 case is ugly. One of the reasons that people have to go with the mac pro is if they need fast i/o, the imac might actually be more of a contender in the race if there was an external bus for faster hard drives or for a RAID. Firewire 800 really doesn't cut it.
 

Ravich

macrumors 6502a
Oct 20, 2009
773
0
Portland, OR
My guess is this:

1) SSDs
2) Lightpeak


Basically, expandability is diminishing in value, so the iMac can/will cover lots of what the low end Mac Pro used to stand for. There's still a need for the high end Mac Pro, but it's clear that Apple isnt even trying to maintain the appeal of the low end.
 

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
16,983
4,965
I don't need to look at a Xeon for seeing the 6-core is overpriced, I just need to look at an inexpensive core i7 Asus motherboard with SATA 6 Gbps, USB 3.0, SAS, and eSATA.
 

VirtualRain

macrumors 603
Aug 1, 2008
6,304
115
Vancouver, BC
LOL... it didn't take these threads long to appear. This will be the first of dozens I'm sure. All I can say is, go buy an HP, or Dell, or build a Hackintosh then.
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,661
136
i get $2443 for the HP Z400 once you configure it with the same CPU/RAM similar graphics and hard drive


the quadro is the same card as the consumer geforce cards except for the drivers/bios. and the price
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Apr 28, 2004
3,104
236
Beauty costs money. Simple as that.
Yes. Having all this cash in my wallet makes my butt look significantly less aesthetically pleasing. I'm so glad Apple is working towards a simple solution to this problem.
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,719
2
There is still a difference because of the change of drivers and bios.
In some cases, the professional cards may have additional RAM as well, which can make a difference in any application (not specifically designed to utilize the additional features enabled in the different firmware/drivers for improved performance, such as a CAD package).
 

jrlcopy

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 20, 2007
465
266
i get $2443 for the HP Z400 once you configure it with the same CPU/RAM similar graphics and hard drive


the quadro is the same card as the consumer geforce cards except for the drivers/bios. and the price
I didn't change the video card selection nor the hard drive. I added $100 for the third party purchase of a 1TB hard drive from newegg.com, apple's shipping hard drive is consumer grade, and hp wants $380 for a 1TB hard drive.

The video card is a whole other issue, I disagree that the Quadro card is the same as consumer, and even if it is, there is no way to flash the bios of a geforce anymore, to make it a Quadro.

But even if you took off the video card, that brings the price down to $1494 + $100 (1TB Hard Drive), and added a $200 ATI 5770, (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103086&cm_re=5770-_-14-103-086-_-Product) You're at $1800.
 

CaptainChunk

macrumors 68020
Apr 16, 2008
2,142
6
Phoenix, AZ
I didn't change the video card selection nor the hard drive. I added $100 for the third party purchase of a 1TB hard drive from newegg.com, apple's shipping hard drive is consumer grade, and hp wants $380 for a 1TB hard drive.

The video card is a whole other issue, I disagree that the Quadro card is the same as consumer, and even if it is, there is no way to flash the bios of a geforce anymore, to make it a Quadro.

But even if you took off the video card, that brings the price down to $1494 + $100 (1TB Hard Drive), and added a $200 ATI 5770, (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103086&cm_re=5770-_-14-103-086-_-Product) You're at $1800.
If you want to make a fair OEM to OEM comparison, using Newegg to price out upgrades on the HP (instead of spec'ing the upgrades in with HP's configurator) is cheating.

1. And what makes you think that an OEM like HP or Dell is going to give you an enterprise-grade hard drive in an entry-level workstation? They usually don't, either. Although a buddy of mine's 2009 Mac Pro did ship with a 1TB Caviar Black installed (not enterprise, but a very good consumer drive), whereas my 2008 came with an SE16 (currently re-badged by WD as the Caviar Blue). Luck of the draw, I guess.

2. It's also pretty well known that competing quad-core setups from PC manufacturers are indeed cheaper than a base Mac Pro Quad. That's been the case since the 2009 models shipped, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.

But for 8- and 12-core machines, that's certainly not the same case...
 

Joe The Dragon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2006
697
165
My guess is this:

1) SSDs
2) Lightpeak


Basically, expandability is diminishing in value, so the iMac can/will cover lots of what the low end Mac Pro used to stand for. There's still a need for the high end Mac Pro, but it's clear that Apple isnt even trying to maintain the appeal of the low end.
What about mate screens? People who don't need a new screen? the mini is to small with weak video + slower cpu + small and slow HDD..

The Imac does not have the video power to drive it's screen size and apple wants to push gameing.

Looks like I need to tell some one who was a old PPC mac to build a pc and put mac os x on it.
 

slughead

macrumors 68040
Apr 28, 2004
3,104
236
The Imac does not have the video power to drive it's screen size and apple wants to push gameing.
The new iMac has a 5770 available for people who want to play games. Actually, IIRC, since the iMac went x86, they've always offered a decent graphics option on the high end.
 

akdj

macrumors 65816
Mar 10, 2008
1,165
58
Alaska
"The new iMac has a 5770 available for people who want to play games. Actually, IIRC, since the iMac went x86, they've always offered a decent graphics option on the high end."

Agreed...and the 5770 is a helluva card for today's games. As well, since Mac went to Intel procs and instituted Boot Camp, you always have the option to load up a copy of your flavor of Windows (or any other OS), and boot in to your gaming OS of choice.

I'm a old school gamer myself, after 20 years of living with PCs...and a bit too old to be a platform fan. (Pong then Atari 2600 while I was in JrHigh and High school). So, my gaming has primarily been done on the computer...I started with an Apple IIE (Ultima, MS Flight Sim (remember that!), Zork, etc)...moving quickly to the 286...and through 2006 I used PCs...moving to the Mac platform 3 years ago, I was terrified of not being able to play MS Flight Sim anymore...and figured I was relegated to owning a PC, at least for gaming...for the rest of my life!

Not the case. With Boot Camp, my MacPro smokes my Quad core PC (with the same video card, 8800GT) on FlightSimX!!! The only other software I NEED Windows for at this point is Adobe Audition...other than that, I'm in OSX.

Gaming has moved to the platform for the most part. PS3, XBox, and Wii are the future of gaming at home. As others have mentioned...the iPhone is where Apple is pursuing gaming (I believe), to go up against the PSP and GameBoy/DS....and, to a lesser extent, the Droid.

I think the (age demographic) segment for truly building the "Gaming Rig" is growing smaller, as the kids that have been playing these bad ass platfom systems are getting older...and those of us that were building 5 thousand dollar rigs end up with mortgages, car payments, and kids.

Seems to me at least...the computer gaming software section at Best Buy, GameStop, and WalMart keeps shrinking...while they devote entire aisles to each store for EACH platform's software!!! YMMV

J
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
8,776
1,643
The HP z400 gives you the same amount of ... same hard drive bays but in an 'uglier case' :(.
Not.

Internal drive bays
2 – 3.5-in
External drive bays
3 – 5.25-in

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/12454-12454-296719-307907-4050763-3718668.html

You do get the 3 paired memory slots versus the 2 single and 1 paired on Mac Pro.

What you are comparing is two different products. One is the chopped down , recycled generic consumer desktop case wrapped around a Xeon "workstation". The other is the top of the line workstation chassis (among which 900-1000W power supply and the associated thermal issues to deal with) .

Typically the Windows PC vendors have two ( or more products). One they wrap the 3xxxx series Xeons around and another they wrap the 5xxxx series Xeons around. Apple merges that just to one product with two different daughterboards they plug in. In short, if your objective is to wrap the minimally expensive "wrapper" around a processor to produce a system they aren't participating in that market.
 
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