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Apple selling televisions doesn't exactly sound likely either. And the only way Apple is going to put a dent in Netflix's progress over the last couple years is to offer all-you-can-eat subscriptions through iTunes. That won't happen. A lot of this stuff blowing in the wind is likely bunk.

What does Netflix "all you can eat" subscription get you?

Megashark Vs Godzilla version 1 through 10?

Their streaming library is a joke.
They need content providers.

Apple needs to move from the rental model to the ownership model to be golden. The "all you can eat" model is not attractive to the studios hence the lack of content on Nexflix.
 
It would be more likely that Apple would integrate A.TV into its Airport wireless routers, but apparently that did not happen today.
 
The hardware is no problem for Apple, I don't even see how that's a point of discussion. The problem I'm having is deciding what exactly this device would do. Sure a lot of people are dropping cable subscriptions, but I honestly doubt that's the case for the majority of apple users. Most of the time spent in my living room is watching television, watching netflix, and playing Xbox (in that order). So how could an apple branded product enhance this? I can't fathom a way that it would, but I'll try. Let's pretend this TV could replace your cable/satellite set top box. That would be awesome, but it would require all (albeit it's a small number) of the cable providers to hop on board. Another idea I've been toying with in my head is an integrated slingbox type service. Kind of obvious that ipad/iphone owners would love this feature. I think those two features I described could make this compelling to a lot of users, and then the hardware could sell it. Something I've been wanting to see for a long time is a television with a good set of speakers. And by good I don't mean audiophile, but a television that I could stand (or perhaps enjoy) streaming my itunes library through. Again though, I'm just speculating and I doubt we'll ever see this product. Certainly not this year.
 
Using Samsung panels??? Hope not! Ive just returned 2 46" D7000's because the LED light bleed and clouding of those screens was just too much. Horrendous quality for what was a lot of money.

By all means make a TV with Apple TV but the only reliable manufacturer and the one who could only deliver the outstanding quality would be Panasonic. Since Pioneers departure from the industry a few years back Pannys are now king of screens with the latest screens the VT and GT series as good as the old Pioneer Kuro.

Whilst LED panel are all happy happy flowery fancy dancy environmentally friendly and Samsung make them look nice, the viewing angles are terrible and the colours over saturated. Thats why you dont see Samsungs demoing Apple TV in store.
 
and now they incorporate the Kinect-like technology they worked with a while back. That would be so cool!!!
 
OK, first off, I'll warn you that this will be a long post, with nothing other than my personal speculations on an Apple TV set... So, here goes:

I'd like to share my opinions on why it makes sense for Apple to make a TV, and how they could pull it off. Probably not this year, maybe not the next, but at some point I believe they will. Let's look at why:

People are saying that "it's a different market", "Apple don't have experience in the TV market", etc. Well, 10 years ago Apple didn't have experience in the music market. 5 years ago they didn't have experience in the mobile phone market. That didn't stop them from revolutionizing both. If they see a market, lack of experience won't stop them - on the contrary, they will use their lack of experience to their own force, and create something that isn't plagued with "but that's how we've always done" thinking like their competitors.

But why would Apple want to join the tv market? Well, for one, they are running low on markets to revolutionize. They already made the one-button phone. Zero-button phone won't be a revolution - simply put, they won't be able to revolutionize the same market twice - which is why with the iPad, they created a new market, instead of revolutionizing an already existing market. What Apple does best, is to look at a market where something is missing, or just isn't working properly, and deliver what's missing. I believe something is missing in the TV market (and I was actually involved in a project that never made it t market, that was supposed to deliver just that).

Then some people are saying that they won't be able to compete with the low price points of many tv's today. Well, they won't have to. Apple don't make low end computers, they don't make low end phones - they won't make low-end TV's either. All major manufacturers have 3000$ TV's on the market. Apple need to compete with those, not with 399$ sets. Sure, some will pass, just like some pass on Mac computers because of price. But I'm quite sure that there are plenty left behind to create a profitable market.

What Apple have done in the past, especially with the iPhone, is to look at the market, point out all the things that are wrong with it, and then try to change that. Phones are cluttered with buttons? We'll get rid of buttons. CD's are a hassle, they get scratched, you never have them where you need them? We'll get rid of CD's. Etc etc. There are lots of things in the TV market that Apple could get rid of. In no particular order:

1: Cumbersome setup, partly because of increasingly varying distribution channels.

2: Cluttered menu systems. Who the f... needs three different noise reduction settings, four different sharpness controls, 3D color management (that don't make sense without measuring equipment anyway), etc?

3: Poor image quality. Yeah, I know, you're all very happy with your tv's, and think they deliver great pictures. But they DON'T! Yours might be less crappy than the other ones, but compared to the quality that today's technology COULD deliver if handled properly, almost all tv's are complete crap, especially if you haven't had it professionally calibrated (but even so, there are still major improvements to be had, even with todays tech). You simply don't know what you're missing.

4: Poor audio quality. Hallelujah, my new tv is 7 mm thick. Yeah, and so is the audio. If image quality is poor, audio quality REALLY suck.

5: Poor remote controls. Almost all TV's on the market have crappy, lightweight and cluttered remotes.

One area they WON'T change much however, is design. There are lots of options today that are slim, unobtrusive and stylish designs. If Samsung's TV is 7 mm, it won't change much if Apple's is 5 mm.

However, let's look at what can be done. 1: Setup. Why do people assume that an Apple TV set would be an ATV in a display? Surely, we should consider the ATV as a "learning curve", an Apple TV set would be a redesign, with a user interface designed specifically for that purpose, not just an ATV and a display. And of course, all of this will not happen until Apple have made deals with enough content providers, that they will be able to deliver the content needed, without the need for cable, sattelite services etc. These deals are imho the only thing holding Apple back.

2: Cluttered menu systems. You don't need picture controls if the image looks good, you don't need audio controls if the audio sounds good, you don't need tuner setup if there is no tuner. Hell, why do we even need a menu system? Think outside of the box, people!

3: Image quality. This actually goes hand in hand with the lack of picture controls: The best possible picture quality is delivering exactly what was created in the studio, period (plus auto-adjusing brightness based on ambient light). We don't need sharpness, noise reduction, color controls etc, we have control over the source material, remember? And Apple do know what they're doing in the studio's - most of them are using their software! Sure, some people will say "but I want to decide for myself how much color I want in the picture". No, you don't. I've been calibrating TV's for a living for several years, and I've _not once_ shown a near-accurate picture to a customer, and NOT have the customer say that the picture looks stunning. Accurate pictures will appeal to everyone - as long as the set doesn't stand among 50 "screamers" from Samsung, Sony etc with "dynamic" settings. Shown by itself, an accurate picture rocks, and it shouldn't be neccessary to calibrate the tv, to get there - it's a manufacturer decision.

4: Audio quality. Assuming that they can get away with not being as slim as the competition, Apple should be able to deliver very decent audio quality. Remember the Tomlinson Holman hiring?

5: Remote control. Oh, you must have seen this coming. The reason we don't need a menu system, is that the menu system is on the remote. We don't need no stinkin' remote, we need an iPad! Flicking through TV guides and movie catalogues, maybe even watching a trailer or two on your iPad, while your spouse is watching the news on the TV uninterrupted of your browsing - how can you beat that? Sure, it will work with iPhone or iPod touch, and sure you can probably use the Apple remote which is probably what will be included if you really want to skimp out, but the iPad is really what completes the Apple TV ecosystem, and changes the experience completely.

To sum up: iTunes delivery system + great out-of-the-box audio/video quality + simple setup + iPad control system = one very cool TV. Even if it IS two inches thick to make room for speakers.

And yes, with apps and the right hardware, you could get some of the way with current offerings from different companies, but noone makes it as accessible as Apple could -provided they get the content deals in place, of course.

And the kicker: No apps. Yes, I'm serious. Apps on TV's don't work. Apps on iPads do. Why would you want to look at the weather on your tv, when you can do it right on your iPad? Much more convenient.

Using Samsung panels??? Hope not! Ive just returned 2 46" D7000's because the LED light bleed and clouding of those screens was just too much. Horrendous quality for what was a lot of money.


Samsung makes good panels and bad panels. For some reason, they don't seem to like putting the good panels into their own tv sets. The panels used by for instance Bang & Olufsen are great panels (although B&O have made choices in the picture processing that I don't quite agree with). A lot of people seem to think that putting Samsung panels in, or even having Samsung manufacture the whole set, equals just slapping an Apple logo on the front of an existing Samsung TV set. It doesn't work that way.

BTW, Samsung don't need to "give up" on their own TV strategies, to deliver parts to Apple. They WILL however copy-paste everything they can from an Apple TV set, whether they actually deliver the hardware or not. That's how they work.
 
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Interesting idea...

I still haven't got onto the LCD TV wagon, (i know!) and i have thought about the apple tv (but done nothing due to said tv set), but this could be interesting.

If you could have ATV and your itunes within the same set, if it had wi fi so you could stream said library over the net and you didn't have to remortgage you house to buy one, i'd be in on this!
 
What does Netflix "all you can eat" subscription get you?

Megashark Vs Godzilla version 1 through 10?

Their streaming library is a joke.
They need content providers.

Apple needs to move from the rental model to the ownership model to be golden. The "all you can eat" model is not attractive to the studios hence the lack of content on Nexflix.

That's ridiculously ignorant. Do you just hate any Apple competitor that much to make up lies?
 
Sounds interesting, but I'll stick to the Mac for now and a 60 inch LG with all the goodies (not 3D) :D
 
Using Samsung panels??? Hope not! Ive just returned 2 46" D7000's because the LED light bleed and clouding of those screens was just too much. Horrendous quality for what was a lot of money.

By all means make a TV with Apple TV but the only reliable manufacturer and the one who could only deliver the outstanding quality would be Panasonic. Since Pioneers departure from the industry a few years back Pannys are now king of screens with the latest screens the VT and GT series as good as the old Pioneer Kuro.

Whilst LED panel are all happy happy flowery fancy dancy environmentally friendly and Samsung make them look nice, the viewing angles are terrible and the colours over saturated. Thats why you dont see Samsungs demoing Apple TV in store.

I have a Kuro and it's fanatastic however additionally i own the Philips 21:9 cinema LED tv and i'd say it trumps it. The black levels are almost the same but in terms of contrast and general colours just pop immensely which i prefer.

I will go to Panasonic once Ultra HD hits the market, until then i'm happy with the Pioneer. I do agree with you on Samsung i will never by expensive hardware from them, very poor from my experience.
 
"Subsidized set-top boxes have squashed innovation because no one wants to pay for separate boxes...ask TiVo, Roku, us, Google in a few months. "

Almost every single television manufacturer is releasing a lineup that includes built-in wifi, streaming music and video and internet content. They all have their own content portals and app-stores from multiple providers.

Netflix and Vudu are all the pay video content a television really needs. Netflix for cheap access to low quality video and Vudu for rental access to the best streaming HD on the market.

Even remotes are being redesigned with this content in mind as they become dual-sided keyboards.

It's going to take a lot more than for Apple to jam an AppleTV into a television and call it a "game changer." Especially if they aren't even assembling the sets themselves.

Why would I buy a television from Apple, instead of manufacturers who have been doing this for decades and are already ahead with the streaming content portal offering more choice and services?

If you want to pay more for just for aesthetics there's always B&O.
 
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Other than exploiting their name I don't see how they can enter the TV market and stand out. What is next? Apple branded trucks by Ford?

On a serious note, the margins on small wide screen TVs are not large. Plasma televisions are mostly low end now. Do they really think built in Google TV is a threat?

Just make the Apple TV appliance support 1080p, have sufficient disk space operate as a DVR, and cache entire 1080p movies. The bonus would be for Apple TV to support DVD (specifically Blu-Ray) allowing consumers to have a one device solution. I don't need Blu-Ray on my computer but when it comes to internet enabled devices why would I want an Apple TV when my blu-ray player already does the net and allows me to use NetFlix and Hulu?
 
DLNA? Surely you jest. Apple won't touch that garbage with a 10 foot pole.

Is that the same "garbage" with which I can stream HD video across my home network from my NAS to my TV? With no additional hardware?

Guess I better throw it in the nearest skip.
 
I have a Kuro and it's fanatastic however additionally i own the Philips 21:9 cinema LED tv and i'd say it trumps it. The black levels are almost the same but in terms of contrast and general colours just pop immensely which i prefer.

I will go to Panasonic once Ultra HD hits the market, until then i'm happy with the Pioneer. I do agree with you on Samsung i will never by expensive hardware from them, very poor from my experience.

Rovex,

Should have mentioned Philips as an alternative also! thats was my first LCD way back in 2005. its still going strong today. I look at that 21:9 and think to myself....One day Ill have it if I win the lotto! I envy you! For now its a trusty Panny 46GT30B. Do miss those Pioneers though.
 
IIRC, you guys have your CableCard now, too. But unless Apple is going to bring IPTV along with it, this will be a DVB-S/2, DVB-C/2, DVB-T/2, ISDB-S, ISDB-C, ISDB-T, ISDB-Tb, DMB-T, S-DMB tower-of-babelish affair. Dumping what ever a set costs on a DVB-C model and then moving to another home and finding oneself with no cable provider and the need to buy a new DVB-S2 set is not nice. If I'd have to buy a separate TV receiver anyways, Apple's TV becomes even less interesting.
Shipping with DVB-C/S2/T combined and two CI+ slot is nothing new, though. :rolleyes:

If however Apple decides to bring IPTV in the iCloud along with it that allows me to officially watch Letterman on CBS if I pay some $5/month for all US network television, it gets interesting. This is actually what I'm waiting for and would legitimate the price of an Apple TV.

And dear CBS, don't even bother. The highest court in this country already ruled that if I can't receive a certain TV broadcast by paying for it at all, you cannot be punished for "illegal reception" - even if you crack PayTV encryption which that particular case included. They care, too.
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I, as always, fail to see the problem of broadcasting i.e. CBS worldwide. It's not like L.A. doesn't have different ads than NYC, and that for decades. Or like you couldn't watch CBS Monday/Thursday night series (delayed and in crappy translations) all over the world already.
 
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depends on the price and how they implement it and what the features would be like compared to the current apple tv and an actually TV.

If it has a huge amount of features compared to the current and the price is comparable to the latest and great tv's on the Market, then it could be a successful to a degree.

But then this is apple we are talking about, it will probably cost twice as much, just look at the apple monitors of today!!!

I doubt this will ever happen though, why invest so much money in a TV project, when u could most likely have a higher profit margin on the current apple tv?
 
OK, first off, I'll warn you that this will be a long post, with nothing other than my personal speculations on an Apple TV set...

Well I have to say, your post was very interesting. Although I don't agree with all of your points, most of your points are very interesting and valid.

Before I read your post, I was going to say that I thought it would be unlikely that Apple would enter the TV market. But if they did... they would be the company with the balls to diversify in such a manner. And I think they would only do it if they DID revolutionize the tv... according to their version of a tv anyway.

But I do think we'll still need menus! :) Some content still needs manual adjustments at times... (I'm thinking for gaming... everything else should be fine). And I absolutely agree that we don't need 42 different controls for sharpness and color, etc. Coming from a pro audio and audiophile background, I've always found it odd that tv's don't simply deliver a detailed and accurate reproduction of the video input signal. That's what pro audio is about... and that's what pro video should be about! Simple, really! :)

One thing that I don't think many people have thought about, however... is how Apple would intergrate tv's into their retail environments... If they came out with televisions, I think they would only have one or maybe two sizes at the most. TV's are big! There's no room for them in most Apple stores! Consider the back of the store, where they keep their inventory.... There's no room for tv's there...

Although an Apple television would be cool (especially if it really was a "revolutionary" Apple take on a tv), I would be very happy if they simply beefed up their Apple tv box... It has a lot of potential... but right now it's a very limited device. Even if the existing apple tv simply allowed me to stream ALL of my media content from any computer... that alone would b a huge improvement!

Well, as always... only time will tell what Apple's plans really are... :)
 
arent margins on tv sets traditionally verrry low? People have become accustomed to bargain hd tv prices.. i dont see Apple's current high margin model working here, but maybe its just me. There are prob lots of people who would be perfectly happy with a shiny wafer thin 42in hd set for $2000 :rolleyes:
 
Forget the TV. I want larger and larger Apple displays on my desk. They don't need anything special built-in. I'll run whatever media app I want on my Mac.

Same here, large displays on my desk or a projecting device. (See end of response)
Plenty of people who want a TV and they have whatever they like.

Set top boxes and Apple TV are easily replaced and updated. Try that with a TV you invested $ 2,000 or so in. Shove all the stuff behind the TV with the cable mess, if the esthetics bother you.

Integrating isn't a good idea , because if things break your entire device is not usable.

These dates especially younger generations want to be connected to the internet all the time.
Answering e-mails, chatting, face book update etc. etc. and they'll watch TV at the same time they do all of these things.
Sometimes even many shows at once.
They also want to see their favorite programs when they have the time, not when the networks broadcasts.

So, we need better TV capabilities in our IMac MBP's etc.

Couldn't care less about a TV.

What I really want is a small Apple device that projects any image in HD quality from my computer onto anything I want in whatever size.
 
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