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...So such a rumor, and such a prototype, is easily worth the cost of making it if for no other reason that it causes an Intel executive to crap his pants, and call an emergency meeting to discuss this... and discuss the need to keep on their toes. I would bet all the money I have that they have done just that.

That's a good point.
Some people say that Apple isn't 100% adverse to leaks... that they'll leak stuff themselves when it suits their purpose. I wonder if this is such a case?

While Apple is a small part of Intel's processor business, they aren't insignificant. And where Apple goes, others tend to follow. Probably just about the last thing Intel wants is for people to start thinking ARM-based laptops are a good idea.
 
3600 employees is definitely small, not sure you can even call that [Motorola] an enterprise level company.

Currently Motorola has about 20K employees according to Microaxis, Wikipedia has the number as 60K (2010). Wherever in that range they currently stand, the company had become much smaller than it was in the mid 90s.

According to Motorola's 2001 annual report, they had during the previous 5 years:

1997: 158,000
1998: 141,000
1999: 128,000
2000: 147,000
2001: 111,000.

So yes, it very clearly used to be "an enterprise-level company".

Where is the 3600 number coming from?
 
15 inch and larger is PRO, as in for the use by "professionals", anything less than 15 inches is simply too small a screen to be of any professional use, Mr Ive knows this and chooses to be a complete fool to stick the label Pro to 13inch devices,

I know, and over the past 30 years have known, a lot of professionals who did their professional work quite well with smaller than 15" displays.

For some tasks, larger is clearly better, and for that, the 13" MBP can drive a couple of big displays very nicely.

And you don't have to be tied to them when you don't really need the extra real estate.

Welcome to the real world.
 
I was actually watching the 2005 presentation where they announced the Intel transition the other day. I don't remember Steve's exact phrasing, but he said that Intel processors would see them through for at least another 10 years. That was 9 years ago.

In that same presentation, he said that OS X was built to be cross-platform, or at least platform-agnostic. Then there's the fact that they were prototyping Intel Macs for five years before that, which is consistent with this rumour.

In light of all this, I expect that we'll see an Intel->ARM transition, maybe not next year, but likely within 5 years. It will be a pain to recompile everything for ARM, but I daresay Apple would like to leave behind every developer who doesn't update their apps.

And let it be said that I am not in favour of this transition. It will be a sad day for cross-platform gaming (we hardly knew ye), and a sad day for people who run Windows on a Mac.

I agree with all of what you said, up until the last paragraph. I understand there are some gamers out there. But I don't like to see Apple making choices about the future of Mac based on this small niche. And in my opinion, Apple is leaving Microsoft in the rear view mirror. Why do we still have to analyze all decisions Apple should make through the prism of what would allow the most compatibility with a system in decline?
 
If that 13 inch MBPr can drive a large monitor, I don't see what the problem is.

It can drive two external displays at one time. Either two Thunderbolt/miniDP, or one Thunderbolt and one HDMI.

So no, the "a 13" MBP can't be a pro" argument collapses on that point, at least.
 
An ARM Mac would be a welcome change. I'm pretty sure within a couple of years every single mac outside of the mac pro will be using ARM processors. Most people don't need a metric ton of power for the things they do. I'm still using my 2009 C2D macbook and it runs everything just fine, and I'm pretty sure ARM can at least match that performance. I can't imagine why I need more power. You know what I would welcome though? Much better battery life and cooler operation.

Some of you "power users" really need to get out of your bubble.
 
What kind of backwards world do you live in? 3600 may be much smaller than Apple, Microsoft, and many other megacorporations, but it's still way bigger than the average business.

I wonder where that 3600 number came from, since Motorola in 1997 was around 150K in size, and currently is still around 20K employees, if not more.
 
So many on this site are crying and lamenting that they won't be able to run Windows on a Arm based Mac. What they really mean is that they fear that they won't be able to run their Windows based apps on a new platform because they can't imagine it working if there isn't a processor and OS identical to what they have now.

There are possibilities of a stripped down OS that runs all Windows apps if people can imagine it and make it. Don't limit the world because of your own limited imagination.

You sound like you know absolutely nothing about economics. It's not just a question about IF an ARM processor can become fast enough. It's about changing an entire software platform over to a new system and the CPU penalties and huge loss of developers that will be incurred in the process and all to accomplish WHAT, exactly? I haven't seen ONE thing mentioned that is better about ARM other than it runs cooler and I question that 100% given how flipping HOT my iPod 4G gets (and I mean HOT).

I can see why Apple might be interested in it. They bring control of CPU updates in-house for one thing. Apple has always been a total control freak (well under Jobs anyway). But other than that, I see ZERO benefit. If anything, they should be pushing Intel to get their CPUs more mobile-friendly so they can DITCH ARM on iOS instead. Then the platforms can properly unite. It would be simple to go from ARM to Intel because everyone is already using Apple's developer platform anyway. The Mac is OPEN and therefore people can develop whatever they want, however they want with the constraints of the OS (even make X11 apps instead if they desire).
 
The problem is that I do not want to carry with me, a 27inch external monitor, some idiot with blindness designed the FCP X interface using a 100inch 10k monitor, Mr Ive told the FCP X interface design team 13inch was professional grade...

I'm in the middle of getting ready to sell our house and move to another state, so the 24" iMac with its 24" Cinema display are packed up.

I'm doing all my work right now on a 13" rMBP, including editing video on FCPX.

It's not wonderful, but it is very functional on the little screen. (It will be nice to be set up at the new place in another state, but until then...)

And "Mr. Ive" didn't order the FCPX team to do anything in particular, considering when the UI was developed and cast in stone.

Either wait until you've had your coffee before posting, or switch to decaf.
 
I think we can sum up the Apple-Intel relationship easily... Every time Tim Cook gets a call from Renee James letting him know they're delaying another processor launch, he throws a Mac Pro through a window.
 
Big trackpad? Anyone remember that iWheel Apple parody video on The Onion? This reminds me of that :D
http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/

Anyway, I see no reason for them to move to ARM. Even ignoring the weaker processing power, incompatibility would be a major pain. If you want to help battery life, make Mavericks not so dang heavy and slow. Mountain Lion was great, and now Mavericks is a dog.
 
I pray for the day the lawsuit is filed to prevent Apple from bundling an OS with Safari. I stopped using Safari when the OS was in the early days of 10. Tiger I think, Safari had so many issues, even today, I refuse to use it.

What in the world are you on about?

You don't like Safari, you don't have to use it, and you don't. No problem.

Other people like it, they use it. No problem.

You like something better, you use it. No problem.

Get up on the wrong side of the cage this morning? :cool:
 
I pray for the day the lawsuit is filed to prevent Apple from bundling an OS with Safari. I stopped using Safari when the OS was in the early days of 10. Tiger I think, Safari had so many issues, even today, I refuse to use it.

If you want a slower browser that uses more RAM, you can download something else and switch from Safari whenever you want. Even if it's Windows with IE, you can easily download Firefox in like 60 seconds. What do you want, a Mac OS that comes with no web browser? And then you use Terminal to wget one?

By the way, I know Safari was bad in Tiger, but since Snow Leopard, it's really gotten so much better.
 
PPC to Intel was Apple's first time migrating to another architecture and way before iOS/ARM came along.

Well, except for the transition from M68K to PPC ... which went pretty painlessly, all things considered.
 
Fact: Intel CPU performance has been stagnating for many years. Apple A series performance has skyrocketed. If this trend continues it will be criminal NEGLIGENCE to continue using Intel instead of ARM.

Fact: Intel engineering is way way way overrated. The only thing that keeps them afloat is their fabrication technology and market inertia.

For f***s sake, x86 is a 40 year old crap architecture that should have died decades ago. How many more years do you want to keep it alive? 10 years? 100 years? LET IT GO!
 
Apple have their roots in RISC processors, so it's interesting that they might moving back to the 'good old days'.

Well, except for their roots before RISC, like 6502/65SC16, M6800 and M68K roots.
 
This whole "post-PC" era is a market gymmic which Apple did not create, but used it to its benefit. It's purely Apple's sales pitch, because the Mac was never as popular as the PC and Apple tries hard to push to devices where it has leverage. It's marketing.

"Post-PC" is not so much a gimmick, but far more so appealing to notion that most folks don't separate form factors from actual function very well. "Post PC" is far more the notion are going past the notion that a "PC" looks like the classic IBM "box with slots" from the 80's form factor or even the clamshell laptop of the 90's. That it runs DOS/Windows like apps. The personal computer market is going past being stuck with just those two primary form factors and being benchmarked solely on the OS side against Windows. The notion of a personal computer never was suppose to be stuck to a small subset of form factors.

What the term had grown to mean was a x86+Windows+ classic form factor machine.


Should I consider myself tethered to an anachronistic method of working just I use a PC/Mac and prefer it over an iPad or any other of these so-called post-PC devices?

That isn't what the notion is about. The origins of the notion of Macintosh was as an appliance more so than a malleable box with slots. Has little to nothing to do with anachronism and more so to do with calcification of terminology.

I do have an iPad and I hardly use it because I think it doesn't do what I need. Yes, there are versions of Office and iWork for iPad. But these office suites lack the power features found in the office suites available for Windows and Mac.

Those limitation of feature length are far more artifacts of the those specific programs rather than the form factor and/or iOS.


There is Microsoft Office for Windows RT, but it won't support add-ons.

Again not particularly an issue of the new form factors and/or platforms that are new.


If Apple changes the processor to an ARM-based processor, the Mac will still be a PC, and not a post-PC device, just with a different processor. This is bad because it will break compatibility with every program written for Mac.

Not necessarily. Mac OS made two previous transitions and apps worked.
That is more so a question of whether Apple building a scaffolding emulator or not. Personally I don't think they want to put effort into that (they didn't on the last transition.... they bought access to a solution).

If Apple changes the processor to an ARM-based processor and make it a post-PC device such as the iPad, then it's even worse because the Mac will lose its power features.


Let me give you an example of what a post-PC device cannot do. A real-life example.

Last year, I finished my PhD thesis. It was a 250-page piece with over 1,000 footnotes and countless references.

It is impossible to write a 250 page document on an iPad plus keyboard?
Footnotes and references are just a matter of software and ease of entry.



To do this, I used Microsoft Word and Endnote. Both are available for Windows and Mac. The Endnote add-on was very useful, as I could manage my references easily and include citations in the Word file. Word was also very handy because I made use of features such as cross-references. I could have used different software, though.

This is kind of a chuckle since when Word first came out folks would same similar things of using Word versus the far more capable (especially for dissertations) TeX system (and other word processing programs they might be familiar with. e.g., Wangs text editor etc. ) [ Even early 90's Framemaker versus the then versions of Word would get very similar issues of cross link, indexing, citiations , etc support where Word "couldn't cut the mustard anywhere near as well". ]


Word has about what around 30 years of development time behind it on the Mac and Word for iPad came out with less than one year ago. Yeah sure they are going to be feature equal because the man years allocated to both is about the same. .... Errrrr not.

One of the primary reasons iOS apps with the same name has less features is because they are younger than their siblings. It isn't an issue of cannot/impossible and far more so of not implemented. "I am not able to do this with this specific version" is dramatically different from cannot be done.

If actually trying to doom or implode Word for iPad one highly successful tactic would be to declare not to ship Word until it was 100% completely feature equal to Window for Windows. Saddle the project with unnecessary complexity and watch it implode under the issues that arise with the finite resources available.

"But Word for iPad can't do it right now"..... Guess what? These ARM based laptops and desktops aren't shipping right now either. Software that hasn't shipped yet really isn't a huge issue for hardware that hasn't shipped yet either. When the first iPad shipped some folks commented about how couldn't do Photoshop and Lightroom on them. Several years later that is not entirely true. It isn't about "cannot" (not capable).








Even if they did, what about integration with a reference manager? iOS doesn't support add-ons. I could not insert citations.

Two programs can't possibly work together on iOS. Not really.


The relatively (to modern CPUs/GPUs) computational requirements of generating a 250 page document with references is one of the primary what the classic PC market is stagnating. An A7 (or future A8) SoC has all the horsepower need to accomplish the task. Can trot out some exhaustive software feature set laundry list and start quibbling over some relatively small subset that is missing but "not capable of " is laughably unmotivated.
The problem the industry is trying to get to grips of is that hardware is far more capable than these limited mainstream workloads.

Can't do localize real time text to speech or some high computational horsepower app perhaps. However, do what software was doing in the early 90's? That is just an implementation priority issue not a capability issue.
 
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I wonder how good this will be then with encoding, running VM's etc. ?

Every OS you run in the VM would have to be ARM-compatible unless you emulate the x86 architecture, which would waste CPU cycles for sure. Even OSs that have ARM versions usually end up unable to run any software you download for them.
 
the A7 chip is currently being underutilized in Apple's iPhone and iPad devices, leaving some of its power untapped

And how do you tap all that "untapped" power?;)
 
Fact: Intel CPU performance has been stagnating for many years. Apple A series performance has skyrocketed. If this trend continues it will be criminal NEGLIGENCE to continue using Intel instead of ARM.

Fact: Intel engineering is way way way overrated. The only thing that keeps them afloat is their fabrication technology and market inertia.

For f***s sake, x86 is a 40 year old crap architecture that should have died decades ago. How many more years do you want to keep it alive? 10 years? 100 years? LET IT GO!

ARM's performance has skyrocketed because it used to be horrible. It's easy to make great percentage leaps when you start near zero. x86 was already fast, and it's harder to make it faster. And Intel processors have been making significant progress; look at the benchmarks over time.

Apple can think about ARM when it's actually faster than x86, not just improving more quickly than it.
 
Fact: Intel CPU performance has been stagnating for many years. Apple A series performance has skyrocketed. If this trend continues it will be criminal NEGLIGENCE to continue using Intel instead of ARM.

Fact: Intel engineering is way way way overrated. The only thing that keeps them afloat is their fabrication technology and market inertia.

For f***s sake, x86 is a 40 year old crap architecture that should have died decades ago. How many more years do you want to keep it alive? 10 years? 100 years? LET IT GO!

Wow, you've got it all figured out. Just a guess but probably your only computers are an iPad and an iPhone.
 
People vastly underestimate Intel's (and MS's) capabilities and platform.

Intel has slowed pace, but that's mainly because it's so far ahead, Wall Street is concerned that it's not appropriately amortizing it's technology investments.

Chip technology is funny because as you invest in new capital, to follow Moore's law and decrease linewidth, you're increasing performance, and efficiency while also decreasing cost. Yes, fabs are getting much more expensive, but on a unit basis it's win-win-win. And Intel is really winning.

Yes, ARM processors are getting better, but why Apple would risk all the disruption of shifting architectures, to get off a win-win-win train? Beyond that, much of the high end legacy stuff is platform dependent (wintel), when the crap on their existing arm devices really isn't platform dependent. So Apple will be ironically locking themselves to a open system (i.e. no competitive advantage), while closing themselves out of legacy platforms...

... Ok, guess Ive done the exercise. It's not true. Apple isn't this bad at decisions.
 
"Post-PC" is not so much a gimmick, but far more so appealing to notion that most folks don't separate form factors from actual function very well. "Post PC" is far more the notion are going past the notion that a "PC" looks like the classic IBM "box with slots" from the 80's form factor or even the clamshell laptop of the 90's. That it runs DOS/Windows like apps. The personal computer market is going past being stuck with just those two primary form factors and being benchmarked solely on the OS side against Windows. The notion of a personal computer never was suppose to be stuck to a small subset of form factors.

What the term had grown to mean was a x86+Windows+ classic form factor machine.




That isn't what the notion is about. The origins of the notion of Macintosh was as an appliance more so than a malleable box with slots. Has little to nothing to do with anachronism and more so to do with calcification of terminology.



Those limitation of feature length are far more artifacts of the those specific programs rather than the form factor and/or iOS.




Again not particularly an issue of the new form factors and/or platforms that are new.




Not necessarily. Mac OS made two previous transitions and apps worked.
That is more so a question of whether Apple building a scaffolding emulator or not. Personally I don't think they want to put effort into that (they didn't on the last transition.... they bought access to a solution).






It is impossible to write a 250 page document on an iPad plus keyboard?
Footnotes and references are just a matter of software and ease of entry.





This is kind of a chuckle since when Word first came out folks would same similar things of using Word versus the far more capable (especially for dissertations) TeX system (and other word processing programs they might be familiar with. e.g., Wangs text editor etc. ) [ Even early 90's Framemaker versus the then versions of Word would get very similar issues of cross link, indexing, citiations , etc support where Word "couldn't cut the mustard anywhere near as well". ]


Word has about what around 30 years of development time behind it on the Mac and Word for iPad came out with less than one year ago. Yeah sure they are going to be feature equal because the man years allocated to both is about the same. .... Errrrr not.

One of the primary reasons iOS apps with the same name has less features is because they are younger than their siblings. It isn't an issue of cannot/impossible and far more so of not implemented. "I am not able to do this with this specific version" is dramatically different from cannot be done.

If actually trying to doom or implode Word for iPad one highly successful tactic would be to declare not to ship Word until it was 100% completely feature equal to Window for Windows. Saddle the project with unnecessary complexity and watch it implode under the issues that arise with the finite resources available.

"But Word for iPad can't do it right now"..... Guess what? These ARM based laptops and desktops aren't shipping right now either. Software that hasn't shipped yet really isn't a huge issue for hardware that hasn't shipped yet either. When the first iPad shipped some folks commented about how couldn't do Photoshop and Lightroom on them. Several years later that is not entirely true. It isn't about "cannot" (not capable).










Two programs can't possibly work together on iOS. Not really.


The relatively (to modern CPUs/GPUs) computational requirements of generating a 250 page document with references is one of the primary what the classic PC market is stagnating. An A7 (or future A8) SoC has all the horsepower need to accomplish the task. Can trot out some exhaustive software feature set laundry list and start quibbling over some relatively small subset that is missing but "not capable of " is laughably unmotivated.
The problem the industry is trying to get to grips of is that hardware is far more capable than these limited mainstream workloads.

Can't do localize real time text to speech or some high computational horsepower app perhaps. However, do what software was doing in the early 90's? That is just an implementation priority issue not a capability issue.

Little wordy and convoluted, but I agree with your post. :) Those who claim that the iPad can't do certain tasks usually are just pointing to the fact that software hasn't yet matured and not that the machine itself is incapable of performing those tasks. This is a big, big distinction. We've seen increasingly that iOS apps can be quite powerful. And with developers continuing to pour their efforts into developing on the platform (mostly because that's where the money is), I could see a PC-like (meaning a computer with traditional input methods attached) ARM-based Mac or iPad being quite popular and just pushing things even further along. There's no reason why someday in the next 5-10 years, our primary computing devices are ARM-based and the software we use on them originally conceived for iOS devices. No reason at all why this can't happen and why this wouldn't work for the vast majority of us.
 
Fact: Intel engineering is way way way overrated. The only thing that keeps them afloat is their fabrication technology and market inertia.

Derp.

This is like saying the only thing that keeps McDonalds afloat is their fast food.
 
The relatively (to modern CPUs/GPUs) computational requirements of generating a 250 page document with references is one of the primary what the classic PC market is stagnating. An A7 (or future A8) SoC has all the horsepower need to accomplish the task. Can trot out some exhaustive software feature set laundry list and start quibbling over some relatively small subset that is missing but "not capable of " is laughably unmotivated.
The problem the industry is trying to get to grips of is that hardware is far more capable than these limited mainstream workloads.

Can't do localize real time text to speech or some high computational horsepower app perhaps. However, do what software was doing in the early 90's? That is just an implementation priority issue not a capability issue.
Well put decontruct60. We have seen personal computing evolve from 25lbs mac portables to 2.3lbs MBAs. Screens going from green 80x25 to 4K 30" lcds. CPUs going from 4.77Mhz to 4Ghz. RAM going from 64kb to 8GB.

Is Intel safe ? Not by any definition of the word. Will they put a fight (against ARM) ? Certainly. Can Apple pull another rabbit out of the hat ? I believe so.

Only time will tell...
 
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