Apple Testing New 'Tap to Pay' iPhone Feature At Apple Park Visitor Center

[jaytv111]

I'm not sure this is actually true. Otherwise, we'd see pay at the table a lot more often in the US. (After all, as much as merchants dislike Visa and MC, most at least nominally follow the rules they agreed to when they started taking cards.)

I had heard in Europe it was explicitly forbidden in merchant agreements (and sometimes illegal), and that language is moving to US agreements as they want to clamp down on fraud.

You're lucky your small town has ApplePay at Kroger, Home Depot, Lowes, and WalMart. Its rare since none of them allow the option around here.

They don't allow contactless (and therefore Apple Pay) at any stores anywhere. Walmart's pushing Walmart Pay, same for Kroger and Kroger Pay, they want you to use an app that shows a QR code to scan.

 

[PowerMacBook]

It's funny to read the various systems described depending on where people come from:
China (WeChat and Alipay) with its QR-code paying systems
US where it depends apparently if you have to give your card away out not
EU where the system is more and more contactless, but always with a physical box which is reading your card or phone.

The system described in the article seems different, in the sense that one doesn't need a physical machine anymore to read your card or phone, but can use the phone to receive from a card or phone.

The banks / credit card companies ask a small fortune to use these physical card reading machines, so in that way it might be interesting for companies.
However, no matter how you turn it around, in the end it is a money transfer which is somehow registered by the banks of paying and receiving party.
That simply costs money.

As we say in the Netherlands: "voor niets gaat de zon op* ".


*the only free thing in life is the sunrise

 

[tmiw]

It's funny to read the various systems described depending on where people come from:
China (WeChat and Alipay) with its QR-code paying systems
US where it depends apparently if you have to give your card away out not
EU where the system is more and more contactless, but always with a physical box which is reading your card or phone.

Honestly, it almost would have been better if the US went QR simply due the possibility of increased merchant adoption more quickly. After all, there was basically no NFC infrastructure back in 2014 (much like China before WeChat/Alipay) and since our last attempt at NFC/contactless payment failed miserably, no one had any desire to try again. Apple is basically the only reason the US is even doing NFC in the first place, IMO.

I had heard in Europe it was explicitly forbidden in merchant agreements (and sometimes illegal), and that language is moving to US agreements as they want to clamp down on fraud.

I don't have knowledge of that, unfortunately, but the best time to do such a thing would have been back in 2015 or so when we first moved to chip. Now, it likely would require a significant warning time just so places can get the needed hardware, so we'll see.

 

[polyphenol]

The iPhone payment reader will actually take contactless cards too, it’s not an Apple Pay only kind of thing, it takes contactless anything, even Google Wallet or Samsung Pay or contactless cards.

That's good but I think most of the people I need to pay for things have already invested in their devices. Many from major PoS suppliers and others from smaller outfits. I can't see them switching to iPhones.

Ironically, they might have been more willing to switch to the cheaper, but now discontinued, iPod if it had NFC and whatever else built-in. Most retailers don't really need to have mobile phone features.

 

[dontwalkhand]

That's good but I think most of the people I need to pay for things have already invested in their devices. Many from major PoS suppliers and others from smaller outfits. I can't see them switching to iPhones.

Ironically, they might have been more willing to switch to the cheaper, but now discontinued, iPod if it had NFC and whatever else built-in. Most retailers don't really need to have mobile phone features.

Actually a lot use the mobile phone features. Target & Walmart use their Zebra android devices to take store calls, that way they don’t have to bother with having the person run towards a physical phone.

 

[vault]

It's funny to read the various systems described depending on where people come from:
China (WeChat and Alipay) with its QR-code paying systems
US where it depends apparently if you have to give your card away out not
EU where the system is more and more contactless, but always with a physical box which is reading your card or phone.

The system described in the article seems different, in the sense that one doesn't need a physical machine anymore to read your card or phone, but can use the phone to receive from a card or phone.

The banks / credit card companies ask a small fortune to use these physical card reading machines, so in that way it might be interesting for companies.
However, no matter how you turn it around, in the end it is a money transfer which is somehow registered by the banks of paying and receiving party.
That simply costs money.

As we say in the Netherlands: "voor niets gaat de zon op* ".


*the only free thing in life is the sunrise

Apparently this is already a thing in my country because Android allows it. You can see the instructions here (in Polish). So the company that would rent you a physical terminal just gives you an app instead. And of course they are still free to charge you whatever they like. I don't think I've seen it used anywhere yet, though.

Now, knowing Apple they will develop a custom system, like Apple Pay, instead of simply opening up NFC, but as you said someone has to process those transactions and it costs money. Right now there are at least three entities involved (payment processor, credit card issuer and bank), we'll see what Apple does with it. That is, if it ever arrives in Europe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[polyphenol]

Actually a lot use the mobile phone features. Target & Walmart use their Zebra android devices to take store calls, that way they don’t have to bother with having the person run towards a physical phone.

But when I am in my own home location, I use wifi calling. Do they not do similarly?

As they have already settled on Zebra Android devices, would they really want to switch to Apple hardware?

 

[raghu8912]

I had heard in Europe it was explicitly forbidden in merchant agreements (and sometimes illegal), and that language is moving to US agreements as they want to clamp down on fraud.

They don't allow contactless (and therefore Apple Pay) at any stores anywhere. Walmart's pushing Walmart Pay, same for Kroger and Kroger Pay, they want you to use an app that shows a QR code to scan.

Walmart's pushing Walmart Pay, same for Kroger and Kroger Pay, they want you to use an app that shows a QR code to scan.
that's because they want your data, and sell it.

 

[raghu8912]

Very ironic that Apple discontinues the iPod Touch so soon before this is set to launch. Would be great for small businesses, restaurants, etc. to use for POS terminals.

Apple wants to sell iPads as POS more $$$ ?

 

[DeepIn2U]

Feels a bit late to the game.

I'm trying to remember the last time I had a problem paying for something with my ordinary contactless cards. I can't. Nor anyone walking away with my card.

Pretty much everywhere in the UK now seems to have suitable devices for taking card payments - mostly contactless if within the limit. That includes waiting staff often having one each. The past two or so years have had an obvious impact on the spread of this technology. Even tiny traders often have them.

It's all very well suggesting that we will not need cards as everything will be possible with just our phones. The consequences of a flat battery or dropping a phone could be ridiculously severe if we have no alternative means of paying for what we need. Especially if we have already racked up the charge (e.g. in a restaurant). Which is (partly) why I carry a credit card, a debit card and my phone pretty much all the time when I am out of the house.

That’s why I have an Apple Watch in case iPhone 12 mini battery dies for nfc based contactless payments

But also MagSafe wallet with 1 card.

in SE Asia been using QR codes for payments for years. How is NFC better than using a QR code that doesn’t require special hardware?

In that same region there have already been huge reports of false QR codes pasted over a retailers official code and your payment is gone once submitted. No security or recourse to recall the payment. No security gaurantee like Visa/MC/American Express based cards backing ApplePay.

QR code is east but I’m not so sure about the security of its implementation nor any guarantee for the wrong payments recourse.

 

[AstonSmith]

I had heard in Europe it was explicitly forbidden in merchant agreements (and sometimes illegal), and that language is moving to US agreements as they want to clamp down on fraud.

Where I work we aren't supposed to touch the customer's card. This is normally fine, contactless is the norm now that the limit is higher, but when the reader demands the card be inserted for a PIN check - that's where things tend to get hairy.
e.g. Last week, I had one customer insert their card the wrong way around, and they were so confused, I had to pull it out myself and rotate it for them.
I don't understand how this sort of confusion happens, and it's not an isolated case. It's as if they never used chip and PIN before, even though PIN verification is supposed to happen now and again.
Thankfully Apple Pay etc work great and are increasing in popularity.

 

[polyphenol]

Where I work we aren't supposed to touch the customer's card. This is normally fine, contactless is the norm now that the limit is higher, but when the reader demands the card be inserted for a PIN check - that's where things tend to get hairy.
e.g. Last week, I had one customer insert their card the wrong way around, and they were so confused, I had to pull it out myself and rotate it for them.
I don't understand how this sort of confusion happens, and it's not an isolated case. It's as if they never used chip and PIN before, even though PIN verification is supposed to happen now and again.
Thankfully Apple Pay etc work great and are increasing in popularity.

I honestly can't remember the last time I had a surprise "insert your card" check. Yes, it happens at petrol stations, but that is expected.

One thing that makes it all less smooth than it might be is that the locations of the slot and the active swipe sensor vary. I don't want the designers/manufacturers to be forced down one route only, but I'd have thought most people would prefer voluntary near-standardisation. (There might be some good reasons to design differently in speicfic circumstances.)

 

[svish]

Will be very convenient once it is available everywhere.

 

[dontwalkhand]

Where I work we aren't supposed to touch the customer's card. This is normally fine, contactless is the norm now that the limit is higher, but when the reader demands the card be inserted for a PIN check - that's where things tend to get hairy.
e.g. Last week, I had one customer insert their card the wrong way around, and they were so confused, I had to pull it out myself and rotate it for them.
I don't understand how this sort of confusion happens, and it's not an isolated case. It's as if they never used chip and PIN before, even though PIN verification is supposed to happen now and again.
Thankfully Apple Pay etc work great and are increasing in popularity.

I only have the insert the card if tapping fails. Then again, I am in the US. Thankfully no idiots have inserted the card the wrong way yet that I have noticed when I am around. In most places nobody touches your card, but some customers are just plain dumb. At a coffee shop here in Phoenix, they were told to tap their card, and the guy put it there and took it away like within a milisecond and alas, all that did was cause it to error out. He ended up inserting the card.

I just use Apple Pay pretty much everywhere I go, so I never really even pull out my physical Apple Card, pretty much in a long long time.

 

[The_Gream]

The USA is about the worst country when it comes to modern ease of payment. Pretty sure chipped cards were a thing in the 80s everywhere but here and only really took off because the credit card fraud finally effected some politician somewhere. US banks didn’t care, as the card holder was responsible (yet here they were Willy Nilly selling our personal info for a buck) for any transaction.

Personally the states are in need a a major wake up in this department/sector.

 

[tmiw]

The USA is about the worst country when it comes to modern ease of payment. Pretty sure chipped cards were a thing in the 80s everywhere but here and only really took off because the credit card fraud finally effected some politician somewhere. US banks didn’t care, as the card holder was responsible (yet here they were Willy Nilly selling our personal info for a buck) for any transaction.

Personally the states are in need a a major wake up in this department/sector.

While it does suck that the US tends to get day to day tech last (banking isn't the only thing we lag on), cardholders haven't been responsible for fraudulent transactions since the 1980s at least if not earlier. We'd probably have demanded changes a lot sooner if we were and/or simply kept being a cash-based society until changes did happen.