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Marx55

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 1, 2005
1,925
758
Intel has just released the new Skylale microprocessors supporting both Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3-1 type C (generation 2).

Does it mean Apple can now release a brand new Apple Thunderbolt Display with such ports?

Likewise for Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad with two USB 3-1 type C (generation 2) ports?

Likewise for Macs with such Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3-1 type C (generation 2) ports?

Or is something else needed?
 

MCAsan

macrumors 601
Jul 9, 2012
4,587
442
Atlanta
The really key question is will Apple announce in September that some or all of the Macs will be updated with Skylake CPUs and chipsets for USB-C ports, USB 3.1 transport, and TB3 transport. And if USB-C, will they remove all FW, USB 3, and Display ports? And for some Macs, will they also remove SD card readers and force all readers to be external?

While we can all guess, I suppose we will all find out in September. In the meantime, I would not be purchasing a new Mac unless I had to do so. Watch for major sales at Adorama and other retailers as August comes to an end.
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
Skylake and Thunderbolt are separate things. What Intel did is announce them both. You can use Skylake with Thunderbolt 2 hardware and you can use Thunderbolt 3 hardware with Haswell. Thunderbolt still is a separate chip, it's not in the chipset yet.

The use of USB-C means that Apple can use either a USB display or a Thunderbolt display. Both are able to offer what the current Apple Thunderbolt Display offers. The only problem: there are no Macs with Thunderbolt 3 and only 1 Mac with USB-C. It is more likely that they'll bring out a TB1/2 adapter to TB3 or simply wait a bit longer.
 

thedeske

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2013
963
58
The use of USB-C means that Apple can use either a USB display or a Thunderbolt display.

Or both. One of the main features of the original was the HUB (Firewire/Ethernet/Thunderbolt/USB)
What to keep in a new design? USB3 & C seem like obvious choices, but watch it come with C only ports and a set of adapters for sale (some already in place)

The ethernet plug could be in danger as well. I hope not - hardwire is still a better choice for many circumstances.

Is there some V2 retina panel coming that's easier to drive with current processors?

This product seems doomed. We've been expecting something for years.
 

nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,091
7,466
Does it mean Apple can now release a brand new Apple Thunderbolt Display with such ports?
One interesting thing about Thunderbolt 3 is that it will use USB-C connector. So if Apple can pull it up, the display could work with new Thunderbolt 3 Macs, existing Thunderbolt-equipped Macs (via adapter), and MacBook (via USB-C DisplayPort Alternate Mode).
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
Or both. One of the main features of the original was the HUB (Firewire/Ethernet/Thunderbolt/USB)
In theory yes but Apple is about preventing confusion in their product line up. If they would offer both (so a display with USB-C and one with Thunderbolt 3) it would be really confusing due to the use of the same connector. With the way Apple has invested in Thunderbolt in the past I'd say that Thunderbolt has a bigger chance.

The ethernet plug could be in danger as well. I hope not - hardwire is still a better choice for many circumstances.
Only the desktops have an ethernet port, the notebooks come without it and require an adapter. I doubt that'll change as wires make more sense with desktops than notebooks.

This product seems doomed. We've been expecting something for years.
And that's the other thing. With USB-C and USB3.1 alternate modes we now have cheap alternatives for Thunderbolt docks. It makes more sense to start investing in USB3.1 than in Thunderbolt. We'll have USB everywhere in the future anyway but Thunderbolt remains to be seen as it is more aimed at high end use. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple would drop the Apple Display and let others take over.
 

MCAsan

macrumors 601
Jul 9, 2012
4,587
442
Atlanta
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple would drop the Apple Display and let others take over.

That has already happened. Who is purchasing a new ATD these days for almost $1,000? The question is does Apple want to regain the market they had with ATD years ago with a Retina ATD that uses USB-C ports and TB3 as transport.
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
Many notebook users do because the Apple Thunderbolt Display is a display with an integrated dockingstation (usb ports, ethernet port, magsafe connector). For most consumers that's all they'll be using with their Thunderbolt ports besides ordinary displays and projectors.
 

MCAsan

macrumors 601
Jul 9, 2012
4,587
442
Atlanta
I got the wife and me ATDs years back when we got our first rMBP units. But if I were in the market for a high end monitor I would try to hold off to any September announcements are made. Apple could be planning to upgrade many Macs to USB-C ports that can do all the transport protocols: USB 3.1/3/2, FW, TB 3/2/1, ethernet....etc. They definitely need to do the to the Mac Pro to keep it running as the flagship desktop.
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,009
7,170
Perth, Western Australia
I very much doubt you'll see Skylake mobile CPUs quite so fast. Intel only just tooled up to pump out Broadwell, and changing production runs costs time and money.

Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I suspect that you'll see Mobile, especially the dual cores in the 13" machine stick with Broadwell for a little while yet.

If intel were planning to push Skylake to everything right now, i very much doubt they would have bothered putting out the mobile Broadwell CPUs at all - it's not like they had any competition from AMD in that area to justify it.
 

thedeske

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2013
963
58
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple would drop the Apple Display and let others take over.

In a sense, that's precisely what they've done. That they still sell something with USB 2.0 is one strange anomaly. Glaring, considering they released products that support UASP enabled USB 3.0 over 3 years ago. Go Figure That Out ;)
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
To be honest, there isn't much of a use case for USB3 for most people. It does what USB2 does, only faster. Most disks used in USB enclosures are unable to take benefit of USB3 since they are not faster or not that much faster than in a USB2 enclosure. Input media like keyboards, mice, tablets, etc. usually don't even benefit from USB2, they work fine with USB1.1a.

USB3.1 is a different story due to the higher power output that allows you to charge notebooks and not just your phone and tablet. It also uses the new USB-C connectors and cables and allows for things like display output. It actually competes with Thunderbolt unlike previous USB versions. It's USB3.1 that now allows 3rd parties to take over. Thunderbolt has already done so in the high performance area.
 
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MrX8503

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,292
1,614
Apple isn't going to release a new TBD just for USB3-C. I reckon they would release a new TBD for 5K.

AFAIK, USB3-C doesn't have enough bandwidth for 5K, but Thunderbolt 3 would. If Apple were to release a new TBD, it would be 5K with Thunderbolt 3.

Speaking of Thunderbolt 3, it has the same port design as USB3-C and can accept USB3-C peripherals. So future Macs and displays will have all the same looking ports with a few of them having a thunderbolt symbol.
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
Thunderbolt 3 does not have the same port design as USB, it's different technology. What TB3 does have is the exact same connector and cabling as USB: USB-C or USB Type C (and not USB3-C). TB3 also comes with USB built-in so you can use both Thunderbolt and USB. The problem is that you can't do so when you only have USB (think MacBook). There might be some confusion there in the future.

I can see Apple going for the 5K but that would require all of their devices to be able to drive such a display. At the moment that is not possible. If they are going to that'll be somewhere at the end of 2016 or even somewhere in 2017. There still is a long way to go in this area for notebook graphics (especially from Intel).
 

MCAsan

macrumors 601
Jul 9, 2012
4,587
442
Atlanta
I can see Apple going for the 5K but that would require all of their devices to be able to drive such a display.

You should be able to drive it as lesser resolutions with old Macs that are not 5K capable. You would like need adapter cables depending on what ports any new ATD would have.
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
Aka a subpar experience which is very unlike Apple. If they come out with a 5K display they'll make sure you can actually use it with your Mac.
 

toddzrx

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2012
725
263
I can see Apple going for the 5K but that would require all of their devices to be able to drive such a display. At the moment that is not possible. If they are going to that'll be somewhere at the end of 2016 or even somewhere in 2017. There still is a long way to go in this area for notebook graphics (especially from Intel).

Most of the timing of all of this is now dependent on Skylake. Since the USB-C is the single port that unifies pretty much all the main stream protocols, and includes power, I think the transition will go pretty quickly. I would expect all of Apple's machines to have at least one USB-C port with Thunderbolt 3 (and all the other protocols) by the end of 2016 at the latest, including the Mac Pro since Skylake-based Zeons should be out next year as well.

At that point, we'll know if Apple plans to stay in the display business. I know it's a long shot, but it'd be nice to see Apple continue the 27" screen in 5K, but also offer a smaller 23 or 24" too (less expensive and a little more consumer grade).
 

Marx55

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 1, 2005
1,925
758
I know it's a long shot, but it'd be nice to see Apple continue the 27" screen in 5K, but also offer a smaller 23 or 24" too (less expensive and a little more consumer grade).


Yes. The 27-inch is too large for many people. A 23 or 24-inch would be just great. Bring it with Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.1 type C (reversible; generation 2) ports and SDXC slot (supporting UHS-II maximum speed of 300 MB/s read/write) and it will be perfect.
 

toddzrx

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2012
725
263
Yes. The 27-inch is too large for many people. A 23 or 24-inch would be just great. Bring it with Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.1 type C (reversible; generation 2) ports and SDXC slot (supporting UHS-II maximum speed of 300 MB/s read/write) and it will be perfect.

Yup: a consumer grade monitor/docking station that only requires one connection to your laptop of choice. Here's to hoping Apple releases a 14 inch rMB next spring; that'd work for me and be the perfect laptop that doubles as a desktop at home.
 

dyn

macrumors 68030
Aug 8, 2009
2,708
388
.nl
Since the USB-C is the single port that unifies pretty much all the main stream protocols, and includes power, I think the transition will go pretty quickly.
The move to USB-C AND the inclusion of USB 3.1 (Gen1 & 2) into Thunderbolt is a golden move, at least currently. If you want USB 3.1 Gen 2 you need a separate chip, if you want Thunderbolt you need a separate chip too. In that case it makes more sense to use Thunderbolt: gives you USB 3.1 (1 & 2) plus some extras. The move to USB-C is also necessary to fulfil Intels dream of creating 1 universal interface (that's one of the goals they have with Thunderbolt). The pricing of the chips is a problem though. The cheaper products will more likely contain the USB chip, the expensive high end models will contain Thunderbolt.

OEMs might be quicker to include USB-C ports on their devices but they won't be as quick in replacing all of the USB ports with USB-C. People simply have too many USB-A stuff and dislike using all sorts of additional connectors or spending money on new cables for the same devices.
 

g4cube

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2003
760
13
Most of the timing of all of this is now dependent on Skylake. Since the USB-C is the single port that unifies pretty much all the main stream protocols, and includes power, I think the transition will go pretty quickly. I would expect all of Apple's machines to have at least one USB-C port with Thunderbolt 3 (and all the other protocols) by the end of 2016 at the latest, including the Mac Pro since Skylake-based Zeons should be out next year as well.

Actually, the timing of all this is dependent on the Alpine Ridge I/O chip that implements USB 3.1 Gen2 and Thunderbolt 3. Very little new information provided at the IDF a few weeks back, except showcasing a Thunderbolt 3 dock.
 

calaverasgrande

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2010
1,291
161
Brooklyn, New York.
Nah Apple is slowly getting out of the desktop computer business.
They won't be adding any new products. Only sunsetting old ones, and doing incremental revisions.
Get ready for the big crunch, when you realize you have to switch to Windows to get real work done because Apple will be trying to sell you an iPad Pro III instead of a Mac Pro.
 
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