Can you run a thunderbolt display on one of the iMac's thunderbolt ports and a MDP on the other?
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Apple Thunderbolt Display with Multiple Monitors: No Daisy Chaining Mini DisplayPort Monitors
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And if they never released thunderbolt you would be limited to 1 display anyways.
So instead on not having the option for two monitors now you have that option.
It amaze me what people will find to bitch about.
They add functionality and give you the option of 2 monitors when that option has never been available prior to now (unless using other 3rd party adapters) and you are still bitching.
Not sure why you would have expected to be able to daisy chain MiniDP monitors as you could never daisy chain them.
You expected a laptop to run 2 external displays? (without external adaptor) I'm the opposite, surprised that the MBP allows 2 to run, although note that it shuts off the internal screen, so it is still only 2 total.
Because thunderbolt is backwards compatible with mini display port which is why we can plug a mini display port 27" into a thunderbolt mac.
Hence as long as the mDP device is at the end of the chain (especially since there is no option) there isn't any reason that it can't drive a mDP display along with a TB display. The amount of bandwidth should still be the same with plenty to spare on a 10/10 Gbps pipe.
Edit: Further, this may have something to do with the specification, or it may have something to do with apple artificially limiting things. Read this with respect to the pegasus TB raid and the 27" that another user was mentioning :
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4489/promise-pegasus-r6-mac-thunderbolt-review/10
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yes
Yes, the limitation on the MacBook Air is not the video card as the Macbook Pro 13" has the same integrated card. The limitation is the Thunderbolt port, it's a 2-channel instead of 4-channel. They call it Eagle Ridge instead of Light Ridge that's in the rest.
Yes, the limitation on the MacBook Air is not the video card as the Macbook Pro 13" has the same integrated card. The limitation is the Thunderbolt port, it's a 2-channel instead of 4-channel. They call it Eagle Ridge instead of Light Ridge that's in the rest.
Where does Apple ever say that the MacBook Air supports 2 external monitors?
Plus, Apple was very explicit here that you need a 15" or 17" Pro to connect to 2 external monitors:
http://www.apple.com/displays/
If anything, the ability to connect 2 displays to a 13" Pro (while disabling the internal display) is a bonus.
The MacBook Pro 13" shuts it's screen off. Modern video cards (released in the past 6-12 months) can almost ALL handle 2 displays of 2560 x 1440 resolution (if they're using dual-link DVI, HDMI, or DP tech). The dedicated cards in the 15 and 17 inch models can run more than 2 displays.
It was:
http://www.apple.com/displays/
Do more with MacBook Air.
Connect MacBook Air to the Thunderbolt Display and you can do even more with a computer that already does a lot. Like adding FireWire peripherals, connecting to Ethernet networks at gigabit speeds, and making large-as-life, HD video calls to other Mac users with the built-in FaceTime HD camera.*
Note it doesn't say connect 2 displays.
Expand the capabilities of your MacBook Pro.
Connect two Thunderbolt Displays to a 15- or 17-inch MacBook Pro or to an iMac and put an extra 7 million pixels to work. To make a desktop workstation out of your MacBook Pro, just daisy-chain additional Thunderbolt devices, including high-performance storage and video and audio capture devices, through the display.
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However, the MacBook Air never supported 2 displays in the past, so this isn't really a change, either.
DP Daisy Chain
http://www.displayport.org/consumer/?q=content/faq
As someone else said, it's a technology of DisplayPort that allows daisy chaining monitors. Displayport 1.2 handles that where Displayport 1.1 does not. So as they said, even if Thunderbolt/Light Peak wasn't being researched, daisy chaining would have been available IF Apple allowed it on their monitors. This is clearly Apple pulling back on a solution. They could've have engineered one if it was hardware, but the cost vs. benefit to them would have been too much. The daisy-chain feature of DP and LightPeak were partly why they were merged into one (when they realized they could). LightPeak could've been USB shaped but Displayport wasn't going to move to USB shaped connections because Apple already pushed for the Mini-DP standard before LightPeak happened.
http://www.displayport.org/consumer/?q=content/faq
As someone else said, it's a technology of DisplayPort that allows daisy chaining monitors. Displayport 1.2 handles that where Displayport 1.1 does not. So as they said, even if Thunderbolt/Light Peak wasn't being researched, daisy chaining would have been available IF Apple allowed it on their monitors. This is clearly Apple pulling back on a solution. They could've have engineered one if it was hardware, but the cost vs. benefit to them would have been too much. The daisy-chain feature of DP and LightPeak were partly why they were merged into one (when they realized they could). LightPeak could've been USB shaped but Displayport wasn't going to move to USB shaped connections because Apple already pushed for the Mini-DP standard before LightPeak happened.
Wonder if it'll be possible for a third-party adapter to "spoof" a TB connection from the TB Display and output to MDP/HDMI.
I guess we'll have to wait and see...
I guess we'll have to wait and see...
I'm talking of current gen devices only. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The Nvidia integrated video card was good, but could not do 2 external displays from my understanding.
Wow...are you kidding? I thought that the big selling point of thunderbolt (besides the high speed) was daisy chaining. Do you happen to have a link handy, explaining that daisy chain is a feature of the mDP spec rather than the thunderbolt spec?
Learn something new every day.
Just look up Displayport version 1.2. That's the version that got cooked into Thunderbolt. Display daisychaining was always a planned feature for DP. The future finally arrived
The Displayport hardware in the computer AND the monitor needs be at version 1.2 to support the daisychaining. I suspect that's why slappling a mDP monitor (with 1.0 or 1.1 hardware) onto a new TB monitor (with 1.2 hardware) won't work, but plugging a mDP monitor directly into the computer will. The versions are backward compatible, but as with most tech specs, older versions don't support newer features.
I think perhaps we may be able to get something if we use an intermediary device in between the TB ACD and the DP ACD, such as the pegasus raid that has already confirmed support for the DP ACD in daisy chain config.
Any idea why the Thunderbolt ACD is recommended at the start of the chain?
And just a question... would Thunderbolt ACD -> other TB device (ie. RAID array) -> MDP Display work? It says it won't work when they're connected directly to the TB ACD, not when connected somewhere down the line from a TB ACD.
(Damn, ninja'ed)
Very... interesting... news item.
And just a question... would Thunderbolt ACD -> other TB device (ie. RAID array) -> MDP Display work? It says it won't work when they're connected directly to the TB ACD, not when connected somewhere down the line from a TB ACD.
(Damn, ninja'ed)
Very... interesting... news item.
I just hope that I will still be able to buy something like a thunderbolt hub to plug into my early 2011 MBP. I am hoping that I can then use mini displayport adapters to plug two DVI monitors into the hub so I can run two external, regular Dell monitors. I'm not spending money on two Apple displays...
Yes, I did. I didn't build the the MacBook Air so how am I supposed to know the the limitation is the Thunderbolt port. They went on and on about daisy chaining Thunderbolt displays and devices... what are customers supposed to think?
Apple should have told us about these issues when the MacBook Air or the 27'' Display was announced, not now. I would have never bought the Air at the time.
I don't know about Thunderbolt hubs, but last I read there are DP hubs in the works which would work like this. Although, since they're DVI monitors you may need one or two active DP to DVI converters.
Apple never said the MacBook Air would support two external displays. They talked about daisy chaining other Thunderbolt devices, not 2 TB displays. Their literature for the TB display explicitly talks about hooking up 1 TB display to a MacBook Air and 2 to a 15" or 17" MacBook Pro. If you weren't sure, why didn't you ask when you bought the Air? It has never had the same feature support as the Pro.
** RANT WARNING **
You know what's funny? All of you Apple fanboys who stand up for Apple in this case.
- You blame the customer because Apple JUST NOW came out with this KB article when they could have months ago before we all made purchases.
- You say that it's our fault because Apple didn't specifically say two displays or not. Yet Apple's marketing machine sure made it all sound fine and dandy didn't they? Otherwise why would MacRumors be posting this on their front page? They knew many people would be taken aback by this.
- You assume we're all supposed to be technical geniuses who know that it has a 2-channel or a 4-channel Thuderbolt port. Or know what the previous version of the MacBook Air could handle.
- Apple could have added support for more monitors but they didn't. They skimped. It sucks.
Regardless, this is FACT: Apple could have come out with this KB article months ago and it would have saved many of us a lot of time and money.
You know what's funny? All of you Apple fanboys who stand up for Apple in this case.
- You blame the customer because Apple JUST NOW came out with this KB article when they could have months ago before we all made purchases.
- You say that it's our fault because Apple didn't specifically say two displays or not. Yet Apple's marketing machine sure made it all sound fine and dandy didn't they? Otherwise why would MacRumors be posting this on their front page? They knew many people would be taken aback by this.
- You assume we're all supposed to be technical geniuses who know that it has a 2-channel or a 4-channel Thuderbolt port. Or know what the previous version of the MacBook Air could handle.
- Apple could have added support for more monitors but they didn't. They skimped. It sucks.
Regardless, this is FACT: Apple could have come out with this KB article months ago and it would have saved many of us a lot of time and money.
Apple is putting out a support KB article now that the monitors are actually shipping. No one has been charged for one up until now, so what's the problem? Also, most people who purchase MacBook Airs attach 0 external monitors to them, so IMO, it isn't too much to ask of people who intend to attach more than one monitor to check into it first. Apple's marketing material for the MacBook Air or TB display never stated or implied 2 external displays would be supported. What you inferred may have been different, but it wasn't stated.
It's a physical limitation of the hardware used. All computers have physical limitations, and it's incumbent upon the consumer to ask about them when making a purchase. It isn't as if they put a display port on there that doesn't support any displays. There are 2 different versions of TB chipsets out there, and 2 more coming out next year. The one used in the 13" Pro is bigger and more expensive, so it's entirely possible that it wouldn't fit into the Air (especially the 11" Air) without a major redesign. The previous Air didn't have a Thunderbolt port at all, so how is it "skimping" that they didn't put the same controller that they use in the MacBook Pro?
There's a reason one line is called "Pro" and one line isn't. Don't assume that just because the Pro can do something the Air can. I don't expect everyone to know every technical detail, but I do expect people to be able to ask questions when they aren't sure. I don't expect Apple to slap a big sticker on the box saying "Doesn't support connecting 2 external monitors." Where would we stop? What else doesn't it do that you think should be disclosed?
It's a physical limitation of the hardware used. All computers have physical limitations, and it's incumbent upon the consumer to ask about them when making a purchase. It isn't as if they put a display port on there that doesn't support any displays. There are 2 different versions of TB chipsets out there, and 2 more coming out next year. The one used in the 13" Pro is bigger and more expensive, so it's entirely possible that it wouldn't fit into the Air (especially the 11" Air) without a major redesign. The previous Air didn't have a Thunderbolt port at all, so how is it "skimping" that they didn't put the same controller that they use in the MacBook Pro?
There's a reason one line is called "Pro" and one line isn't. Don't assume that just because the Pro can do something the Air can. I don't expect everyone to know every technical detail, but I do expect people to be able to ask questions when they aren't sure. I don't expect Apple to slap a big sticker on the box saying "Doesn't support connecting 2 external monitors." Where would we stop? What else doesn't it do that you think should be disclosed?
I suppose you may be right about this. But your specific issue is a subset of the overall issue here, and a far more obvious one, if you ask me.
Until recently (apparently), NO laptop supported multiple external displays. Hell, most people can't even use 1 external properly, it's comical. So, I find it interesting that you freak out over a mythical feature that is brand new for high-end machines, but only with certain equipment setups. Sounds like a user will need some tech knowledge, regardless.