Apple to Allow Background Tasks on iPhone?

[tosui]

Obviously the iPhone already has multiple processes running concurrently (e.g., phone, texting, iPod, email, even web pages seem to continue loading after I've quit Safari). It's a busy little machine. I don't want it to get slow. Letting users decide (kind of like location-based services) would be a nice feature.

Um... has no one experienced the many, many apps that run as backgrounded in a jailbroken iPhone?

For example, would you like your weather icon to display the *current* temp on the home screen? Done and done. There are so many great examples of this (Intelliscreen probably being the best - and one of the first, interestingly enough!) that it's silly to talk of "can the iPhone do it?"! It's *been* doing it for thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) of people.

C'mon Apple, get on board the "we know what an iPhone can do" train!!

 

[miketcool]

I reckon that this Palm® Pre™ is going to keep Apple up at nights for a little while yet. Competition is good.

or ANDROID

 

[spazzcat]

Keep multiple applications open and move easily between them ;-)

I reckon that this Palm® Pre™ is going to keep Apple up at nights for a little while yet. Competition is good.

Cheers Daniel

The Pre apps are web pages...

 

[markm49uk]

Yeah, because we all know that Apple likes to get things perfect before putting them out, just like 1.0.0 and 2.0, and the new unibodies with battery issues and OS 10.5 with a slew of networking issues, and TV that was next to useless since it crashed so much, and the iPod touch that had iPhone errors constantly.

They like to get things perfect before releasing them, so I'm sure push notifications will work without a hitch when it comes...

Wow - remind me why you have Apple products ?

 

[lftrghtparadigm]

Keep multiple applications open and move easily between them ;-)

I reckon that this Palm® Pre™ is going to keep Apple up at nights for a little while yet. Competition is good.

Cheers Daniel

LOL, guess you're a little behind aren't you?

Don't expect that thing to come to market. Apple's recent patent victories have made the majority of that product illegal. Expect it to change radically or totally disappear.

First of all there appears to be a total lack of understand about the way the iPhone currently handles memory, by the majority of users.

There is NOT enough memory for even a SINGLE additional app to run normally in the backgorund. Period.

128 mb of memory, 90 mb of which is constantly in use. 45 distributed amongst the Phone and Mail app. An additional 10 each sucked up by iPod and Safari once they are opened.

20 mb is just barely enough to run a 3rd party app smoothly, let alone KEEP it running and move on to something more.

Sorry but the article is total nonsense and doesn't even consider reality in its conclusions.

The HARDWARE HAS NOT CHANGED,THEREFOR the method for "background" processes (push) has not changed. Its simply not ready for 3rd party implementation.

Hack your phone and use backgrounder. Positive results? NOPE. Worst thing you could do.

 

[nozebleed]

I keep Pandora, Beejive, iheartradio, Simplify, Safari, running in the background, many times more than one (Pandora or iheartradio and beejive for example). Whats wrong with your iphone??

oh, Backgrounder ftw....

 

[lftrghtparadigm]

Um... has no one experienced the many, many apps that run as backgrounded in a jailbroken iPhone?

For example, would you like your weather icon to display the *current* temp on the home screen? Done and done. There are so many great examples of this (Intelliscreen probably being the best - and one of the first, interestingly enough!) that it's silly to talk of "can the iPhone do it?"! It's *been* doing it for thousands (probably hundreds of thousands) of people.

C'mon Apple, get on board the "we know what an iPhone can do" train!!

If your saying that any of that runs well, or even could run well on the current iPhone, you are as wrong as you could be.

Its not a matter of opinion. The iPhone does not handles jailbroken background tasks well...at all. The entire phone struggles through a low memory environment while hacked and it takes a toll on the battery.

All bad ideas.

 

[Jayomat]

nothing new here, pure speculation

 

[nozebleed]

LOL, guess you're a little behind aren't you?

Don't expect that thing to come to market. Apple's recent patent victories have made the majority of that product illegal. Expect it to change radically or totally disappear.

First of all there appears to be a total lack of understand about the way the iPhone currently handles memory, by the majority of users.

There is NOT enough memory for even a SINGLE additional app to run normally in the backgorund. Period.

128 mb of memory, 90 mb of which is constantly in use. 45 distributed amongst the Phone and Mail app. An additional 10 each sucked up by iPod and Safari once they are opened.

20 mb is just barely enough to run a 3rd party app smoothly, let alone KEEP it running and move on to something more.

Sorry but the article is total nonsense and doesn't even consider reality in its conclusions.

The HARDWARE HAS NOT CHANGED,THEREFOR the method for "background" processes (push) has not changed. Its simply not ready for 3rd party implementation.

Hack your phone and use backgrounder. Positive results? NOPE. Worst thing you could do.

I have not had a problem yet, and I think your argument has no substance. I have always used backgrounder, never had an issue. All calls come through, pandora will quit when this happens, battery life is a non issue, and if the phone does need more memory, the app that is backgrounded quits.

As we speak I have beejive and simplify running at the same time. It will continue like this until I want it stop an app. Im going test your theory and open up safari...

Yep, apps still running fine and my phone hasnt exploded...

 

[lftrghtparadigm]

I keep Pandora, Beejive, iheartradio, Simplify, Safari, running in the background, many times more than one (Pandora or iheartradio and beejive for example). Whats wrong with your iphone??

oh, Backgrounder ftw....

Nope I'm sorry but this is a total exaggeration. ^

Here's why: The typical user will report based on how their phone behaves when it behaves well. There is nothing wrong with my iPhone or any other iPhone. They are the same device. You are simply reporting the positive aspect of what you can do, vs how the iPhone actually behaves.

You've left out the constant UI slow down, the decreased battery life, and the inability to properly enable and disable this fuction.

Backgrounder is an unstable memory hog. It creates a constant low memory evironment that slows down the UI of the phone and takes a toll on the battery. Now, with the "Free Memory" app, it may be sustainable. But only if you are savy enough to keep up.

Apple will never use "Backgrounder" or anything that functions in a similar way because its terrible. Period. I don't care if it "works" for you, I used it for about 8 months straight. I know what it does, and It does not "work". It gets you by with half-a$$ed attempt.

 

[nozebleed]

If your saying that any of that runs well, or even could run well on the current iPhone, you are as wrong as you could be.

Its not a matter of opinion. The iPhone does not handles jailbroken background tasks well...at all. The entire phone struggles through a low memory environment while hacked and it takes a toll on the battery.

All bad ideas.

Also, I did forget I have an active clock on my springboard, thanks Tosui!! I guess that brings the apps running in the background to 3, with safari open! hmmm i guess i just have a phone that produces more memory when i need it!!

 

[lazyrighteye]

+1 Pandora and AOL IM are the only two I need, can't even think about anything else I would care to have push for.

It would be nice if they could add in the iPhone settings a "Which programs may run in the background" and limit it to one or two that you can have running, and you just select from the "approved" list.

And while they're at it, how about an Energy Saver preference so we can get the most run time out of these portable devices?
Surprised that sort of power management didn't come two June's ago.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

While I couldn't give a rat's ass about push notifications, I bet Apple is really wishing that they had put more than 128MB of RAM in the iPhone. I think that the RAM limitation is what is holding them back: as mentioned above, if one considers that the kernel tasks, the phone driver libraries, the iPod app libraries/interface and something like Safari already run as continuous background processes, that only leaves about 4-5MB of free RAM to play with. If they had 256-384MB to work with, we would have already seen userland background tasks.

Also, is the CPU really powerful enough to handle a large number of multithreaded apps running in the background and a performance-intensive foreground app? This is less of a concern than the RAM, however, as Apple could do something really cool and increase the bus/CPU speed from 103/412MHz to something much faster, like 125/500MHz or 133/533Mhz. I have no idea why they didn't do this in the first place--why put a decent CPU in a device, only to castrate it with lame speed limiters? Yes the battery life would likely drop a little bit, but isn't the processor frequency supposed to be dynamic anyway? The maximum frequency would only be used during maximum workload, like when surfing the web.

 

[lftrghtparadigm]

All the sarcasm related to the geniuses who think they have "TEH SOLUTION" with backgrounder can go have fun with.

It doesn't change the fact that its:

1. A hack
2. A poor hack
3. Memory hog
4. Battery murderer

Do not use it, unless you are ok will a Slow iPhone and one that will eventually have permanent hardware failure.

Or you can jsut listen to the "experts" in this thread with "all their experience!"

 

[shiseiryu1]

It's a tough balance

There is NOT enough memory for even a SINGLE additional app to run normally in the backgorund. Period.

128 mb of memory, 90 mb of which is constantly in use. 45 distributed amongst the Phone and Mail app. An additional 10 each sucked up by iPod and Safari once they are opened.

20 mb is just barely enough to run a 3rd party app smoothly, let alone KEEP it running and move on to something more.

Sorry but the article is total nonsense and doesn't even consider reality in its conclusions.

The HARDWARE HAS NOT CHANGED,THEREFOR the method for "background" processes (push) has not changed. Its simply not ready for 3rd party implementation.

Hack your phone and use backgrounder. Positive results? NOPE. Worst thing you could do.

Yeah, I hope Apple doesn't make the iPhone like the pocket PCs (where you push the 'X' button but it doesn't really close the app...basically just minimizing it). I was in the habit of 'Quitting' all my applications, but non-techie pocket pc users would have 20 apps running and then wonder why their device ran so slow and unstable.

I hope that Apple is able to find the right balance. For example, it would be nice to listen to music in the background (like the Tuner/Pandora app for example), however, I think other users are right when they say that a lot of apps (like IM) don't need to run all the time and would be good candidates for Push notifications.

If anyone can pull it off right I think it'll be Apple... (although with June quickly approaching I wonder if the solution will only be available as a "feature" in iPhone rev.3)

Just a quick question...does anyone know the speed difference between the memory that the Apps run on and the Flash memory where everything is stored? What would be the impact of using the 4-16GB of storage space as "virtual memory"? 128MB seems pretty sparse compared to the GBs of storage memory.

 

[lftrghtparadigm]

While I couldn't give a rat's ass about push notifications, I bet Apple is really wishing that they had put more than 128MB of RAM in the iPhone. I think that the RAM limitation is what is holding them back: .

Yea, no kidding, end of discussion.

 

[lftrghtparadigm]

Just a quick question...does anyone know the speed difference between the memory that the Apps run on and the Flash memory where everything is stored? What would be the impact of using the 4-16GB of storage space as "virtual memory"? 128MB seems pretty sparse compared to the GBs of storage memory.

That's a good question and the best way to explain it is, try using anything with SSD drive and see if anything responds quite as fast as a button on the iPhone touch screen.

Almost, but not quite. Dedicated real memory is still where its at.

 

[iParis]

Hopefully the reason Push isn't working now is because they don't want to mess up a Push like the did with another recent service that failed.
*cough* Mobile Me *cough*

Having push and the ability to run apps and the background would be EPIC, especially for Simplify Media and BeejiveIM.
It would also make Free Memory a lot more useful.

 

[aristobrat]

While I couldn't give a rat's ass about push notifications, I bet Apple is really wishing that they had put more than 128MB of RAM in the iPhone.

If they truly designed the iPhone with no intentions of native third-party apps running (which is how they marketed it when it was released -- everything was to be a webapp, until they finally gave in), I guess 128MB probably made sense then.

 

[nozebleed]

Nope I'm sorry but this is a total exaggeration. ^

Give me a sec, I may post a youtube vid showing Im not exaggerating.

Here's why: The typical user will report based on how their phone behaves when it behaves well. There is nothing wrong with my iPhone or any other iPhone. They are the same device. You are simply reporting the positive aspect of what you can do, vs how the iPhone actually behaves.

I have 5 phones I can compare all together if i want to. Mine, girlfriends (jailbroken) Her parents and brothers (3 not jailbroken). All running 2.2.1. I can put them side by side and you wouldnt know one was jailbroken or not, backgrounding an app or 2. As long as i hid the cydia app that gives it away.

You've left out the constant UI slow down, the decreased battery life, and the inability to properly enable and disable this fuction.

New update makes a preferences option, with a app on the springboard. No UI issues. Battery life is expected to be less, if im running more than one app at a time its got to get power from somewhere i mean.....
(this is a non issue though, since I'm constantly around a mac)

Backgrounder is an unstable memory hog. It creates a constant low memory evironment that slows down the UI of the phone and takes a toll on the battery. Now, with the "Free Memory" app, it may be sustainable. But only if you are savy enough to keep up.

meh... unstable, no. memory "hog"? itunes, vista. Free memory app, never heard of it, but thanks ill check it out. savvy enough? heh heh you betcha

Apple will never use "Backgrounder" or anything that functions in a similar way because its terrible. Period. I don't care if it "works" for you, I used it for about 8 months straight. I know what it does, and It does not "work". It gets you by with half-a$$ed attempt.

Sounds like you are a little salty from someone stealing an idea, or something. I havent figured out yet why someone would put so much time into dragging someones great idea and hard work through the dirt.

 

[Diaresi]

*Looks at his N95 8GB*

*Stares blankly at thread*

*Leaves thread*

 

[lazyrighteye]

While I couldn't give a rat's ass about push notifications, I bet Apple is really wishing that they had put more than 128MB of RAM in the iPhone. I think that the RAM limitation is what is holding them back: as mentioned above, if one considers that the kernel tasks, the phone driver libraries, the iPod app libraries/interface and something like Safari already run as continuous background processes, that only leaves about 4-5MB of free RAM to play with. If they had 256-384MB to work with, we would have already seen userland background tasks.

Also, is the CPU really powerful enough to handle a large number of multithreaded apps running in the background and a performance-intensive foreground app? This is less of a concern than the RAM, however, as Apple could do something really cool and increase the bus/CPU speed from 103/412MHz to something much faster, like 125/500MHz or 133/533Mhz.

Agree: this is a RAM issue.
Thus, we won't see 'real' Push/simultaneous apps until the new hardware comes out.

 

[The Phazer]

I'd be concerned that the reality of this is that the new iPhone will get a considerable RAM boost and operate background tasks, and that the 3G and prior will just be left to rot with a half finished OS.

I agree that push would have been handy for certain apps like Twitterific, or waking up an IM app, though running two apps is better overall.

Phazer

 

[nozebleed]

*Looks at his N95 8GB*

*Stares blankly at thread*

*Leaves thread*

lol

 

[57004]

20 mb is just barely enough to run a 3rd party app smoothly, let alone KEEP it running and move on to something more.
[...]
The HARDWARE HAS NOT CHANGED,THEREFOR the method for "background" processes (push) has not changed. Its simply not ready for 3rd party implementation.

I don't really agree with your conclusions. First of all, there is bound to be a new iPhone coming, probably with more RAM. (Edit: I mean that this would allow more background stuff in the future so the 1 or 2 app limit now would not be present for the new iPhone owners)

Second of all, if Apple is wise enough, they won't allow the apps to keep running themselves, but instead allow a normal app to launch a separate background process in the background, with very high restrictions on memory and CPU usage.

If these background apps use shared libraries for TCP/IP etc, they could be implemented with a footprint of say 100-500kB of RAM. They would just communicate over the internet (or with the GPS) and buffer their data, and only if something happens that the user should know about (e.g. an incoming IM), they could wake the iPhone up and warn the user, who can then start the full app to see and respond to the event.

This could really be done with a very small footprint and has the added benefit of having very low CPU usage as well. There is really no point in keeping a whole app (including GUI etc) in memory just to do some backgrounding stuff. Current jailbreak hacks do exactly that, which is why they're so slow.