Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I had followed this story back when it was happening.
--
The boys were not even experienced enough to have the proper safety gear on board before heading out into the Atlantic with a storm approaching and I'm sure the parents regret not equipping the boat properly especially since one of them owned a marine supply business.

So, based on the reports at the time, the boys deliberately headed out into the open ocean? That is surprising; most similar accidents that I have heard of involved people who were heading out into a protected bay or estuary and ended up in the open ocean due to weather, loss of power, currents, tides, etc. The obvious reason why people are usually unequipped for the open ocean is because they never planned to be there.
 
These are all signs of a creeping invasion of privacy - and Apple is complicit, while pretending to be against it.
The master at deftly using hypocrisy to their advantage, Apple will continue to milk these kinds of situations to maximize the attention it gets.

Especially as iPhones slowly fade from the constant white hot spotlight Apple pays to have shined on it.

The real question is what will Apple do to keep up its carefully crafted elite image. As a mass market retailer, they risk blending in with Walmart and the others.

Dreadful indeed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mums
One of the (perhaps) unique factors concerning recreational boating on the east coast of the United States is the presence of the Intracoastal Waterway.

For people not familiar with the Intracoastal, it is an immense system of canals, rivers, bays, and inlets that runs parallel to the coastline of the entire southeastern United States. It is possible to literally navigate from Virginia to Texas without actually going out into the open ocean itself. The water that you sail on is salt (or at least pretty brackish) - but for the most part the navigator is preserved from the rollers and rough water of the open sea.

There are definitely hazards to navigation: In parts there is heavy commercial traffic: barges, etc. The waters are also tidal, and subject to shifting bottom conditions. But for the most part its a pretty forgiving maritime environment. In most cases you are sailing at most a few hundred yards from dry land - and more often than not, considerably less. There is minimal wave action along most of its length. In fact the wake from passing vessels is usually going to be the roughest water you encounter.

I guess I would argue that the demands in skill; judgement; and general seamanship required for piloting a small craft on the Intracoastal are vastly different from those required on the open sea. You could hand the keys to a reasonably responsible teenager and let them cruise a few miles up or down the Intracoastal with relative confidence; and after a relatively short period of instruction as to general principles of boat handling and piloting. If the engine fails, or the vessel runs out of fuel, they are at worst a few yards from shore or rescue. And - as alluded to earlier - virtually all of the Intracoastal is going to have mobile phone coverage.

The open sea? Even the warm, calm waters off Florida's east coast; are a vastly different proposition. If an engine quits; if the weather or sea state turns bad; if you get lost in a fog or at night; or if a crew member falls ill - you can very quickly find oneself in mortal peril.

I don't know that these two teenagers planned on heading out onto the Atlantic ocean proper. They may have planned a trip to a favored fishing ground in one of the many bays and estuaries along the Intracoastal. But somehow or another, their craft left the Intracoastal and entered the Atlantic Ocean proper, eventually drifting as it did several hundred miles to the northeast. An environment considerably more hazardous, and far more demanding in terms of skill and equipment.

Your response is very well thought out. I was responding to the comment that the parents should be under investigation. I'm not a parent so maybe I am not in a position to have an opinion. My remark was sort of knee jerk. We so often hear calls to criminalize parents when there is an accident.

Water has an element of danger, no doubt. When I was a youngster with a small boat there were limits that I respected. I was playing around in water not as challenging as the sea. Great Lakes region. Erie kicks up very quickly. I never considered going on the lake. Not enough boat, not enough power, not enough kid.

Parents had a real boat for that and I went with them. Dad an I often played man overboard and almost drove my mother crazy. We had big fun.

Life jacket was part of my daily wardrobe. I burned through at least seven each summer.Never in a small boat without it on my body. Things happen quickly.

I remain in disbelief on the number of seasoned boaters who use a cell phone in case of distress. I've never understood spending bazillions on the boat and skimping on safety items. Marine radio is a must. No Auto Club to call on the water. You just keep drifting.

I've seen boaters go out to assist others who did not exercise good judgement considering weather conditions and the capacity of their craft. Once the boaters in distress were safely assisted they got what for from the volunteer responders. Don't know if it made a difference or not.

Water is wonderful, fun and exhilarating. It's also dangerous. Safety is a serious matter.

My heart goes out to the families who lost loved ones. These stories are always sad.
 
So, based on the reports at the time, the boys deliberately headed out into the open ocean? That is surprising; most similar accidents that I have heard of involved people who were heading out into a protected bay or estuary and ended up in the open ocean due to weather, loss of power, currents, tides, etc. The obvious reason why people are usually unequipped for the open ocean is because they never planned to be there.


This is part 2 of a very long thread and you need to sift through all the posts and links for info. Maybe start at the end and work backwards if you're interested in spending the time.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-14-amp-Perry-Cohen-14-Jupiter-24-July-2015-2
 
I had followed this story back when it was happening.

Not well enough perhaps...

The boys were not even experienced enough to have the proper safety gear on board before heading out into the Atlantic

According to their parents, they had no plans to go out into the Atlantic. This was a fishing trip on the Intracoastal.

This was preventable and will be used in boating safety courses as a lesson which will hopefully save some future lives until the inevitable next time.

No one knows how their boat got out into the Atlantic. It is a little bit too soon to play Monday morning quarterback.

A.
 
Not well enough perhaps...



According to their parents, they had no plans to go out into the Atlantic. This was a fishing trip on the Intracoastal.



No one knows how their boat got out into the Atlantic. It is a little bit too soon to play Monday morning quarterback.

A.

They took the boat out into the Atlantic for whatever reason. I'm doing no Monday morning quarterbacking...
 
That's what the terrorists want you to think.

You are completely wrong. Terrorists want you to be afraid of them and attacks on civilian population. They don't want you to think that something is just an accident.
 
Well everyone is entitle to their opinion, but I offer this angle:

As a parent, I would wonder what happened to my boy out there. I would be devastated to say the least, but maybe....just maybe the boys left a photo or video saying goodbye. Or tried typing a text or email. Anything Apple can find from that point of view might help ease the loss for the parents. I know the boys haven't been officially claimed as dead, but out in that area, it would be hard for them to survive.

Stranger things have happened though.

So from that angle, I say Apple should go full force to help anyone out.

Just because there's a real loss involved doesn't mean the situation isn't being used for other purposes. It's those other purposes which are dangerous to the nation as a whole. Therefore I object to Apple cooperating with the "government" in this way.
[doublepost=1462172972][/doublepost]
The master at deftly using hypocrisy to their advantage, Apple will continue to milk these kinds of situations to maximize the attention it gets.

Especially as iPhones slowly fade from the constant white hot spotlight Apple pays to have shined on it.

The real question is what will Apple do to keep up its carefully crafted elite image. As a mass market retailer, they risk blending in with Walmart and the others.

Dreadful indeed.

This is about things bigger than commerce. It's about social control and enslavement of the masses. Yes Apple is being used as a cash cow. But it's also being used as a data mine and a control mechanism.
 
Now we have another test of how absolutely sacred phone privacy is.

I know, it's about the privacy of everyone else. You can't have it both ways. If this iPhone they found is locked with a passcode, Apple has to hack it to get in. What are they going to tell the parents if it's locked, and they don't want to break into it?

And I wouldn't really consider that reducing the security of all phones. Whatever vulnerability Apple was going to exploit must exist. Maybe you're thinking of a backdoor. I know, they claim they're afraid of the tool leaking, but it's nowhere near as dangerous as a backdoor.

The master at deftly using hypocrisy to their advantage, Apple will continue to milk these kinds of situations to maximize the attention it gets.

Especially as iPhones slowly fade from the constant white hot spotlight Apple pays to have shined on it.

The real question is what will Apple do to keep up its carefully crafted elite image. As a mass market retailer, they risk blending in with Walmart and the others.

Dreadful indeed.


You need to read the article and then read the posts before continuing to say the same stuff. The parents know the password, they could charge the phone, unlock it and show anybody they liked, only the phone is in such a state it that obviously won't work. There is no hacking - at least in the sense you two are arguing about - as the password is known, that's not the issue here.

The issue is that the phone can't be charged and have a code out in as its in such a mess. This has nothing at all to do with privacy, terrorists, the NSA, FBI, Bermuda Triangle, Roswell, the moon landings, JFK, 9/11 or anything else remotely contentious. This is about two young lads who went missing and there could be evidence in their phones of attempts to phone for help or some of the route they took that could help these parents either find closure or lead to a criminal investigation of there was foul play or a third party involved.

The easiest part will be finding out the password - they already know it - but it will take quite a lot of work before they get to a stage where a 4 digit number (at its simplest form) is required.

I guess it's easier to get excited and rant than read what has gone before you, so I doubt you will read any of this either, but I have at least tried to show you that you have really got this completely wrong and are arguing about something that doesn't apply.
 
My god why is it that when I read an article on MacRumors I absolutely HAVE to read comments from armchair warriors who think they know something about the article. Yet that warrior didn't even read the article.

But isn't that what you are doing, too? Oh my God, now I'm doing it...damn you internets! Also, what the hell would terrorists want with 2 teenage boys???
 
"According to the court file, Austin's stepfather, Nick Korniloff, contacted the FBI in the belief that the boys had been abducted, but no official criminal investigation was undertaken."
"The phone "potentially holds the key to answer a question that a mother desperately needs answered," the Cohens' lawyer told the judge presiding over the hearing. "And let's be clear, your honor, the boys are not declared dead.""

I don't see anything about terrorist, I see abducted, but that has nothing to do with terrorist.
 
This is about things bigger than commerce. It's about social control and enslavement of the masses. Yes Apple is being used as a cash cow. But it's also being used as a data mine and a control mechanism.
Yes indeed...

When we look beyond Apple, you're absolutely right.

In fact it's the vast number of citizens carrying smartphones of any platform that unwittingly provide the government with a treasure trove of information.
 
These are all signs of a creeping invasion of privacy - and Apple is complicit, while pretending to be against it.
Actually, there is a key difference with this case, the actual legal owners of the phones at this point are the parents. Even if the kids were the legal owners of the phones, they are at this point presumed dead and barring anything in a will (not likely that they have one at this age), all of their assets would go to their parents.

The parents, as the legal owners of the phone have the option to appeal to Apple and ask them to help recover data from the phone that they own, even if a passcode is set. Apple then has the option to assist or not assist with doing so and they can choose to charge or not charge for their services.

This is a far cry different from the government demanding that Apple write special code to allow them to unlock the phone.

So, in this case there are absolutely no privacy issues at play, as the legal owners of the phone are asking for assistance to not bypass security, but recover data from a damaged device that may ultimately assist them. And who knows, if the kids were abducted, then it is possible there is evidence that may lead to their safe return.

Since it appears that the parents know the password, there is no issue there, so it is only a matter of recovering data from a damaged device and if it can or can't be done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jnpy!$4g3cwk
Lets not get too full of our selfs.... Its a simple typo...
Not at all, just clarifying that it is a typo… Googling "VFH" brings up a whole other thing.

However I didn't expect the snarky response, so thanks for clarifying who's full of themselves…
 
The big difference in this case and the San bernadido case is in the latter case Apple was being asked to hack into their own phone. In this case they are being asked to repair a phone so the parents who have the passcode can then log in.

Hack vs repair. That is the difference.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.