Apple to Debut Low-Cost MacBook Air With Retina Display, Revamped Pro-Focused Mac Mini in 2018

[lederermc]

Please no butterfly keyboard. Please no butterfly keyboard. Please no...

I like the new keyboard... so far.

 

[likwidplastik]

Lower cost Macbook and an updated MacMini?!?!
Someone pinch me...

 

[macduke]

Unfortunately, Thunderbolt 4 is not a thing. It is not even a whisper of a thing at this point. Thunderbolt 3 is emerging quickly, but I do not think it will truly blossom until (and if) Intel gives up on licensing fees and the controller is integrated onto the CPU die, which at this rate will be closer to 2020 or 2021. If one assumes that Thunderbolt 4 is double Thunderbolt 3, then the PCH is going to have to cough up x8 PCIe 3.0 lanes for just two TB4 connectors. That's a third of the PCIe lanes available to the Z390 PCH, which means you would still need to be very careful what you use, assuming the Mac mini comes with a discrete GPU, which will use all x16 PCIe 3 lanes on the CPU (or Apple will hear it from Pro users).

If the Mac mini is the first step in Apple's plan towards the 2019 Mac Pro, then it will be modular using something proprietary to Apple. Perhaps a separate PCIe 4.0-based proprietary connector that can encapsulate and shuttle PCIe 3.0 signals along the PCIe 4.0 bus between the modules to provide enough bandwidth for the interconnects. PCIe 4.0 is a real thing, and could be used for this, because I do not think PCIe 4.0 slots will ever be a thing on a motherboard if PCIe 5.0 is finalized and ratified in 2019 as planned - https://www.tomshardware.com/news/pcie-5.0-release-0.3,34720.html

Most PCIe 3.0 GPUs still do not exceed the throughput and bandwidth of an x16 slot - https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Titan-X-Performance-PCI-E-3-0-x8-vs-x16-851/

Your base module contains enough power for a certain amount of modules, but it won't get you more than one x16 PCIe 3.0 slot, if that. I am almost positive that Apple will sell the GPU modules separately in the 2019 Mac Pro as it can then control what GPUs are supported and know just how much power the base MacPro module will need to power a certain GPU. I do not even believe Apple is going to sell a PCIe module that has more than an a few x8 and/or x4 slots in it, because you will already have Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.1 and 10Gb Ethernet in the base module. Outside of GPUs, what other AICs need a PCIe x16 slot? Answer, hardly any...PCIe storage=x4, UHD equipment=X4, maybe x8, SAS controllers=x8, RED ROCKET-X card? Sure, it uses x16 PCIe 3.0, but it only needs 75w of power, not 275w-400w, which are realistic projections at this point.

Other modules might allow for 2.5" SSDs/HDDs, more than one GPU module (yeah, the irony) for DaVinci Resolve or FCP X once it is updated (remember Mojave per app eGPU allocations). I think the Mac mini module will end up crippled from using some of these modules.

You have a valid idea, but Thunderbolt 4 will not be the medium used, and the Mac mini will be tantalizing, but still leave most wanting more because as per Apple's modus operandi there will be at least one or two things that keep it from being great. Buckle up!

Yeah, I wasn't sure if maybe Thunderbolt 4 would be coming out next year since Apple works closely with Intel. But I also think they want to move away from Intel, so being Apple a proprietary solution seems more likely. Also I didn't really think it would be like an actual TB4 connector, but some kind of proprietary way to stack them with contact points that would transfer the data. Whether that be PCIe or what have you. Guess I should have made that more clear.
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I was thinking the same thing! I was hoping more for a Intel NUC unit. I’m really not into LEGO blocks if that’s the direction for a workstation.

I guess we’ll need to wait.

Yeah, I've been waiting a while to see what they roll out. I probably should have upgraded to the 5K iMac last summer to tide me over. First gen products often have problems. But I also want to spend money on a Mac Pro if it seems worthwhile to show Apple that people still care about it. I also like the idea of not being wasteful and keeping a machine going for a long time.
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Sorry. That's too thin of a margin for ANY computer/tech-device OEM that actually DOES R&D. Apple claims about a 40% gross profit margin on average, and that feels about right. Remember, there are a BUNCH of costs that AREN'T related to ANY Product, and thus are nothing but profit-sinks.

Just like at home, where you likely say "I make decent money, why am I always so broke?" It is the "death-of-a-thousand-cuts" that seemingly conspire to dribble away your paycheck. Only with Apple, those "dribbles" are measured in thousands and millions of dollars...

And just like with your paycheck, all the board members of Apple can do sometimes is shake their collective heads and say "It doesn't take long, does it?"...

No, that would be the markup over what they take on selling parts. When you buy a 1080 TI for $700 or whatever, Nvidia isn't getting $700. Newegg or wherever people order PC parts nowadays is getting a cut of that as well. Apple could sell that card for $800 and still maybe make $300 on it.

 

[palebluedot]

2017 rumors suggested Apple was working on a Mac mini that "won't be so mini anymore," which would be in line with a machine that has more powerful, less compact components.

If true that may be good news. Tiny desktop computers are a needless pain. An earlier, PowerPC Mac mini I owned was so tight for space that after replacing the hard drive I could never get the case back on. And my current 2012 high-end Mac mini is so absurdly designed that when I thought of replacing the clock battery, I discovered from iFixit that the replacement, which should take seconds, would take two hours. Engineering that poor stinks.

Bigger isn't the real issue. Versatile is. Apple needs to make a desktop that's as clever as Drobo file servers. Make adding, upgrading, and fixing easy. Make it so that adding a new HD or SSD takes mere seconds—simply slide the drive in followed by a window asking how that drive is to be formatted and used. Those who work with videos would love that.

Others are right to suggest that price will be a major factor in its popularity. I do book layout with InDesign and my existing i7 Mac mini with a large SSD and 16GB of RAM is more that adequate for that. Since it is six years old, I worry about it dying suddenly, but if it did I have multiple backups of my work and could get a replacement the next day. It will take a lot to get me to upgrade when I see no need to do so. Both the feature set and the price will have to be appealing to get me to buy.

I disagree. I have a huge gaming PC, two 24" monitors, and a Mac Mini on my desk. The Mini and PC share a keyboard and mouse via Synergy. It's nice cause I can do work/browsing on the Mini while gaming on the PC seamlessly. Point is, I don't need two desktop size chassis in my room/desk. The Mini fits a perfect, yet niche, need. Also, when I upgraded the RAM and SSD on a 2012 mini I marveled at the engineering. It is like a finely tuned tetris piece that fits together perfectly. Not saying I would dislike a larger Mini, but I wouldn't knock its place in the ecosystem assuming that there is a legitimate desktop class Mac (Mac Pro).

 

[pipis2010]

I hear what you’re saying, but the fact is Apple is a large company with an equally large overhead. They’ve got 130,000 employees and an R&D spend of over $1.1 billion per month. As a product line, the mini’s got to pull its weight. Its (average) selling price has got to cover its share of Apple’s cost of doing business.

People are often shocked to hear that parts costs are so low compared to selling price. For example, the iPhone 8, selling for $699, has component costs of about $250. Can you imagine trying to build a mini that sells for $699 from $250 in components? Can’t be done.

In the past Apple has eaten the difference. They priced the entry level mini for $499, but that had a 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD and 15W CPU. Realistically, increasing the minimum config is going to increase the selling price. The 8GB/256GB SSD mini currently sells for $899, and I don’t really expect price cuts with an update.

I highly doubt they ever eaten any difference. Not to mention that the $250 going to $699 is a 180% difference, that’s plenty to cover their margins and all their costs for the device... EVERYTHING can be done with Apple, it’s just a question if they want to!

 

[zla]

To everyone complaining about the possible "mini pro" and "why does everything have to be PRO now!?"

Well just wait: if the rumors are true about the upcoming iphone lineup there will be 3 models:

Iphone X sucessor
In-between sized model with LCD (the low-cost model)
Iphone X plus

They are all said to have similar form-factors (i.e. notch and face ID) with the outside 2 devices being more premium... how much do you want to bet that the x sucessor and the x-plus are going to be dubbed "iPhone Pro"?

 

[RyanXM]

Space Gray Mac mini option please...

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

I can't believe everyone keeps falling for this when it's been going on for 10 years;

1. No updates to product for an incredibly long time (Apple milks profit from using old components, and everyone keeps buying)
2. Concern builds, then Tim says says the product is an important part of future (Whew, my product is spared being sacrificed to the Gods in the Cloud. BTW, it's "Pro" now and will cost more)
3. Praise from from everyone!

It's NOT part of some Grand Conspiracy; perhaps that Tinfoil Hat needs to be loosened a bit...

Apple has not "milked profit" from ANY "old components", period. If you honestly don't think that even "speed bump" updates (which are generally fairly easy to do, engineering-wise) bring MUCH more sales than "milking old components" does, you are SADLY mistaken! Problem is, Intel hasn't been much help in the "speed bump" department. Pesky laws of physics and all...

Neither you nor I have ANY idea what a "Pro-centric" Mac mini even MEANS; so just HOW can you be so dismissive of it?

 

[Guy Clark]

I've recently replaced my 2011 iMac with a new 5K iMac 4.2GHz CPU, 64GB Ram, 1TB SSD. It's better than my old 2011 iMac in every measurable way. Out of interest, what makes you convinced that my older 2011 iMac is a better machine? I've still got it in it's box what could it do that my new iMac can't that would make me want to use it again?

To begin with here are the specifications of both iMacs which have been upgraded with Seagate Hybrid Drives
https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/solutions/solid-state-hybrid/

mid 2011 21.5" iMac
2.7 GHz Intel Quad Core i5 (Sandy Bridge) CPU
8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 RAM
AMD Radeon HD 6770M 512 MB Graphics
1 TB Seagate Hybrid Drive
macOS High Sierra
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...inch-aluminum-mid-2011-thunderbolt-specs.html

late 2015 21.5" 4k Retina iMac
3.1 GHz Intel Quad Core i5 (Broadwell) CPU
8 GB 1867 MHz DDR3 RAM
Intel Iris Pro 6200 1536 MB Graphics
1 TB Seagate Hybrid Drive
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...-inch-aluminum-retina-4k-late-2015-specs.html

As you can see the specifications although similar stack up well on the late 2015 iMac so on paper performance should be significantly enhanced. This however is not the case with the mid 2011 iMac matching performance in significant areas for my uses.
I run multiple virtual environments using Parallels Desktop 13. Now you would assume with the more powerful Iris Pro 6200 1536 MB Graphics coupled with faster 1867 MHz RAM on the late 2015 iMac virtualisation performance would be significantly improved. Precisely the opposite is the case with performance being slower than the mid 2011 iMac. Subsequently I have transferred all virtualisation work back to the mid 2011 iMac.
Moving on to viewing large mkv video files (up to 20 GB) once again there is little difference between the two where the mid 2011 iMac with the AMD Radeon HD 6770M 512 MB drops no frames and there is little noticeable difference in quality with the 4k Retina display on the late 2015 iMac.
Both of the above tasks the late 2015 4k Retina iMac should show a significant improvement but it is simply not the case.
I can live with USB 2.0 and there is Thunderbolt present. A massive plus with the mid 2011 iMac (for me at least) is Firewire 800.
Where the graphics do shine through on the late 2015 4k Retina iMac is with gaming on Bootcamp and of course the 4k Retina display looks great but on balance I still say the mid 2011 iMac is the better of the two machines.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Yeah, I wasn't sure if maybe Thunderbolt 4 would be coming out next year since Apple works closely with Intel. But I also think they want to move away from Intel, so being Apple a proprietary solution seems more likely. Also I didn't really think it would be like an actual TB4 connector, but some kind of proprietary way to stack them with contact points that would transfer the data. Whether that be PCIe or what have you. Guess I should have made that more clear.
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Yeah, I've been waiting a while to see what they roll out. I probably should have upgraded to the 5K iMac last summer to tide me over. First gen products often have problems. But I also want to spend money on a Mac Pro if it seems worthwhile to show Apple that people still care about it. I also like the idea of not being wasteful and keeping a machine going for a long time.
[doublepost=1534869828][/doublepost]
No, that would be the markup over what they take on selling parts. When you buy a 1080 TI for $700 or whatever, Nvidia isn't getting $700. Newegg or wherever people order PC parts nowadays is getting a cut of that as well. Apple could sell that card for $800 and still maybe make $300 on it.

I understand that Apple has "buying power" and enjoys the "Economies of Scale" to a pretty big extent; however, they aren't getting a $300 GPU chip for $100, either.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

I run multiple virtual environments using Parallels Desktop 13

With 8gigs of RAM????

 

[TallManNY]

What I keep asking apple for is A iMac 27" guts but without the display, in a tower, with upgradable parts ie memory hard drive graphics, flowing you to use your choice of display keyboard etc..I have left feedback on their site.

The headless Mac is what tons of people have asked for over the years. For some reason, Apple refuses to make it. But this rumor of a "pro" mini sounds pretty close to that. Of course I doubt it will be upgradeable. But if it costs less than $1,000 when outfitted with decent RAM and a decent sized SSD. then maybe it doesn't have to be easy to upgrade. An external GPU would be the path to upgrade that part.

 

[FasterQuieter]

Been thinking about the Mac Mini and I am wondering if "larger" and more "pro-focused" could mean it will include a chip like AMDs raven ridge APU. Quad-core desktop class CPU, so it would need more cooling (hence the bigger case). That chip has a 2 Teraflop integrated GPU, so that would also be a huge step up for the Mini. Apple shouldn't really need to charge much more, as it is a $170 part. By costing more, they may just mean the elimination of the $499 base model. Maybe it will start at $699 instead. Fingers crossed, as I'd buy this machine in a second.

Alternatively they could be using one of Intel's new Core i7-8809G chips with the RX Vega M GH graphics on the same board. That would be an incredibly powerful little machine. If they do that though, I can't see a starting price lower than $999. That would have the advantage for Apple of not needing to optimize OS X for AMD CPUs. I don't know how big a deal that kind of thing is.

 

[bulldog_in_the_dream]

This rumor makes sense to me. Apple needs a budget machine. It used to be the white plastic Macbook, now it's been the Air for quite some time, but the Air has been in dire need of an update. And Apple is not going to name it Macbook Cheap, hence they'll keep the Air in the name.

I'll be quite happy if this rumor turns out to be correct. I'm on a basic Macbook Air 2015, using it for writing, surfing and, if I'm in the mood, programming. I owned a Dell XPS 13 for one an a half years, tried it with both Windows and Ubuntu. I just couldn't get used to it, MacOS still beats any other OS imo and no Windows machine I've ever used have been able to match the Mac trackpad.

 

[Guy Clark]

With 8gigs of RAM????

At no stage did I state the virtual environments are run at the same time. I have just installed a free subscription upgrade to Parallels Desktop 14 and performance is further enhanced.

Talking RAM the mid 2011 21.5" iMac can be maxed out with 32 GB RAM which is user upgradeable.

 

[LeeW]

I suspect the addition of the "Pro" to the name suggests that the mini will no longer be a cheap entry point device.

Yes, it will have a low entry configuration, probably in the $600-$750 region, then $750-$1,000 and then once you start loading it up towards the $1,500 mark.

Even at the lower end of $600-$750 it will be a spec that screams for something to be added/upgraded to pull it out of mediocre.

I am not complaining though, push me up to $1,500 with the right spec and I will still buy.

 

[Guy Clark]

This rumor makes sense to me. Apple needs a budget machine. It used to be the white plastic Macbook, now it's been the Air for quite some time, but the Air has been in dire need of an update. And Apple is not going to name it Macbook Cheap, hence they'll keep the Air in the name.

I'll be quite happy if this rumor turns out to be correct. I'm on a basic Macbook Air 2015, using it for writing, surfing and, if I'm in the mood, programming. I owned a Dell XPS 13 for one an a half years, tried it with both Windows and Ubuntu. I just couldn't get used to it, MacOS still beats any other OS imo and no Windows machine I've ever used have been able to match the Mac trackpad.

Sure the trackpad is a major selling point but it was better before in that it is now far too big on the modern MacBook Pro.

 

[Scubaman]

Apple is working on several new products for its Mac lineup, including a new low-cost MacBook Air and a Pro-focused Mac mini, reports Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

The upcoming low-cost MacBook Air will be similar in design to the current MacBook Air, but with slimmer bezels around the display. It will continue to be sized around 13 inches, and it will feature a Retina display.

We've heard multiple rumors about the upcoming low-cost notebook, but it has been unclear whether it is part of the MacBook family or if it will be branded as a MacBook Air. Today's report makes it clear that the new machine is going to be positioned as a MacBook Air upgrade, aimed at students and schools with a lower price tag than MacBooks in the MacBook family.

Apple is continuing to make new MacBook models as well, and it's not yet clear how the company will differentiate the new MacBook Air from the MacBook. Right now, the MacBook's higher price tag, slimmer body, and Retina display set it apart from the MacBook Air.

Apple is also said to be working on an upgrade to the Mac mini, which has not seen an update since October 2014. Little detail is available about the upcoming machine, but it is said to be focused on pro users with new storage and processor options that are likely to make it more expensive than previous Mac mini products.

2017 rumors suggested Apple was working on a Mac mini that "won't be so mini anymore," which would be in line with a machine that has more powerful, less compact components.

Bloomberg suggests Apple could potentially be planning to introduce the new Macs in October, following a September event that will see the launch of new iPhones and new Apple Watch models.

New iPad Pro models with Face ID are also in the works, but it is not clear if these will debut in September or October.

Article Link: Apple to Debut Low-Cost MacBook Air With Retina Display, Revamped Pro-Focused Mac Mini in 2018

Is this the new Mac Pro all us cheese-grater Mac owners have been promised!!!!!!!

 

[macduke]

I understand that Apple has "buying power" and enjoys the "Economies of Scale" to a pretty big extent; however, they aren't getting a $300 GPU chip for $100, either.

No, it's a percentages thing. I listed a higher margin on the high end card. IDK if that's accurate but it was an example. A higher end card is likely to have higher margins for both manufacturer and reseller. Using some nice convenient round numbers, a lower end card at $300 might be more like $200 base card price from OEM + $25 for Apple enclosure/connectors/R&D/marketing + $75 profit for a profit margin of 25%. I know these numbers aren't accurate but I'm talking about the idea behind the numbers of how it usually works.

 

[LeeW]

Is this the new Mac Pro all us cheese-grater Mac owners have been promised!!!!!!!

I guess there is a slight chance it is connected in some way but doubtful, I really expect the Mac Mini Pro is going to be the bridge between wanting a headless device but not wanting the expense or indeed need for a Mac Pro.

 

[Guy Clark]

Amazin

Is this the new Mac Pro all us cheese-grater Mac owners have been promised!!!!!!!

Amazing things are being done with cheese-grater Mac Pros making them more powerful than the modern trash-can Mac Pro
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8xkq8k/mac-pro-upgrade-community

The cheese-grater Mac Pro is a classic design which of course can be traced back to the PowerMac G5.

 

[bulldog_in_the_dream]

Sure the trackpad is a major selling point but it was better before in that it is now far too big on the modern MacBook Pro.

I use a Macbook Pro at work, don't have a problem with the size, hand detection is good when writing. The touch bar is a regression though.

 

[smeagol]

I think the Macbook will be reduced in price and replace the Macbook Air, similar to what happened to the original Macbook Air. The Mac Mini as we know it will cease to exist, it will become bigger to accomodate the newly updated internal component and be simply called the "Mac".

So Apple's computer product line will look like this:

Macbook / Macbook Pro
iMac / iMac Pro
Mac / Mac Pro

My 2 cents ;]

 

[Guy Clark]

I think the Macbook will be reduced in price and replace the Macbook Air, similar to what happened to the original Macbook Air. The Mac Mini as we know it will cease to exist, it will become bigger to accomodate the newly updated internal component and be simply called the "Mac".

So Apple's computer product line will look like this:

Macbook / Macbook Pro
iMac / iMac Pro
Mac / Mac Pro

My 2 cents ;]

If the MacBook Air were to be discontinued it will be a sad day as the Steve Jobs took such pride in announcing it in 2008. It is worth viewing the whole presentation as there was so much pride in the man

No such pride exists at Apple these days.

 

[SSDGUY]

No one needs an Apple TV sized underpowered Mac mini. One the current size or slightly larger with real internals would be a better option for Apple is it has potential to serve more users, I would think. As for the MBA—they’ll most certainly duck-up that machine by giving it that horrid keyboard I hate, removing the MagSafe and ports we love, in the name of simplicity (that actually adds cost and complexity) and with Retina display, that while lovely, takes two precious hours away from this machine’s currently brilliant battery life.

I stare at a lovely retina iMac all day, along with using an iPad, and an iPhone. When I occasionally use my wife's MacBook Air, it's like going back to the stone age. "Retina" resolution is the future for all. Hopefully better battery life will be as well!