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this is rediculous...The music industry makes no sense. They are already dying, why are they trying to further kill themselves off?? People hate them enough, they should be appeasing us and even LOWERING some prices. I will love seeing these big crap companies fold and die off, maybe actual MUSIC will be made again 😡 😡
 
Good thing "Superstar" is arbitrary...my music should remain untouched...

Heck, I bet from a cost of production standpoint Ashlee Simpson is considered a "superstar".
 
The record companies are NOT doing this to blindly grab a little extra cash. The ITMS market is small. Very small.
They are pushing to charge more for 'superstars' to maintain their influence on the music-buying public. While all the money is being made from a dull repititious few, they can control the airwaves and charts. The way it is done now, with a 'hit single' that gets high rotation (not without a little coersion), and that spurs a massive (and brief) demand for the album, the record companies call the shots.
It is the beautiful democracy of 0.99 tracks that has them scared. It is in their best interests to have just a few artists to flog, and make all their money from them, rather than spreading it over a larger field.
It doesn't have to be this way. We can go the Jobs way.
The top40 doesn't have to be such inane crap. The public can make a free choice from what music is available, not what is force-fed them. The record companies go from being self-ordained gods to servants of the artform, and the public's whims.
(sorry - i am a little naive)
 
this would completely stink. a lot of what makes iTMS so easy is the simplicity in pricing. if they start raising the prices, then i just might start shopping at other online music retailers for a better price!!! i unfortunatly think most consumers will just keep clicking and buying regardless of the price so i think apple will probably end up doing this anyways. but at least all the older bands i might like will be cheaper, right?!
 
Terrible.

Jobs knows that this is going to drive people back to piracy...guess it's back to Xfactor for me...until the stupid greedy labels realize they're losing more money on the higher priced songs...
 
If the major labels were at all serious about dropping the price of "Back Catalog" music, they would already have done so. After all, its 99cents per song, but the seller is free to choose whatever price they want to sell an album at. Guess what, they're going for $9.99 or more usually, same as new albums.

For the time being, all those moaning about how these guys are acting the solution is simple: Break free of major label music. By listening to smaller bands on smaller labels you will find more variety, interest and *quality* than you will listening to mainstream music.

Not only that, but when you go see them live you won't have to pay $100 to go see matchsticks jump up and down in a Football Stadium, but rather $15 to go see them up close and personal.

Check out: http://www.metacritic.com

pretty much anything on there that gets over 80 is worthwhile. Plus now with iTunes you don't have the problem that your local Best Buy doesn't stock smaller artists because they don't think anyone will buy them.
 
Maestro64 said:
So is it stealing if your friend brings his CD over and you load it onto your iPod. Also, is it stealing if you create a digital copy of something that the original owner never offered (At one point the music industry never sold mp3, only CDs so it was hard for them to claim they lots money, you can not lose what you never offered for sale) ITMS has actually help them win their court cases.

Actually, I wasn't referring to CD purchases with my comment. I meant that some people will continue to steal via p2p services, and other means.

No, I don't consider it stealing if my friend or my wife or whoever lends me a CD and I rip it into my iTunes/iPod. I know the music industry and many individuals for that matter would disagree, but I'm not taking those songs and distributing it out to the whole world to copy. There's a big difference there as I see it. I don't do that and I don't condone it in any way shape or form. The scenario above is no different than what friends and family did for each other years ago by recording LPs to a cassette tape or recording off a radio station.
 
Considering most mainstream music sucks, and the lesser known bands are the actual good ones, this is awesome news!
 
music business model needing a CHANGE!!!!

okay so as an example of $ from downloading:

.99 cents comes into Apple
.40 cents Apple keeps
.59 cents goes to the Label
the label then has to pay the music publisher about .08 cents
Now the label has .51 cents.
usually the label will then split the remaing with the artist 50/50 which leaves about .25 cents for the label as gross revenue.... which is a long way from the "old" record label business model of selling to a distributor at about $8.00 (of course, excluding expenses) on a $16.98 list price.
We all know even with the packaging and shipping charges of the "old" way, labels made a LOT more money this way.

Yes, labels have a cut that is substantially less than it was with legalized downloading... so 2 things need to happen. ONE is put out better music and cut the "filler" tracks to sell more downloads... and TWO, which is most important, change your business model (STOP LIVING THE SAME LIFESTYLE WITH THE SAME AMOUNTS OF EMPLOYEES, HIGH PAY, AND THE SAME BROADWAY ST. ADDRESS IN NY WITH YOUR $10,000 A MONTH RENT!)

The bunch of old men with their old attitudes of how the music industry is ran need to change or get replaced!

(hope Apple pushes their weight to keep a cap at .99 cents)
MY .02 cents...
 
i have one thing to say:


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

😡

[edited because my NOOO was too long and broke the stylesheet 🙁)
 
If this was slashdot I'd mod you +5 informative.. those were excellent links, simply excellent and I appreciate it.

Until the RIAA passes legislation (notice I didn't say politicians) that forces me to hand over half my paycheck for ashley simpson CD's, I won't be giving a single dime to their cartel.. hear that RIAA? Hear me now? Sue away..

danielsan26 said:
A while ago on one of these kinds of threads someone posted a link to "RIAA safe" artists whose labels aren't members of the RIAA, and I've really enjoyed it. I've also been pleasantly surprised that some of my favorite musicians' labels AREN'T part of the RIAA.

RIAA radar
Top 100 "RIAA safe" albums
Amazon top 100 with their RIAA status
 
iGary said:
I'll go right back to stealing it. I can't imagine I will be the only one.

what a bunch of pathetic ********. and there is plenty of this sentiment.

but instead of making comments about the legality or ethics involved in that kinded of retarded commentary, the question is this. if you aren't listen to totally horrible music like britney and 50 cent and all of that crap, it looks like the music prices may go down. cheaper prices for labels catalog artists from whom the production costs have already been recuperated.

anyhow, the fact that this may makes the music i like _cheaper_ while still legal is totally cool. it may turn out that i don't like the way the new model is implemented. i'll have to see. but the idea that nobody is discussing how some of their music purchases will be cheaper seems to be only telling part of the story.
 
The pricing structure should be the opposite. 49¢ for hit songs and more for the older back catalog of songs.

Oh well, since bands like Steadman are providing all their music for free, we'll see a shift to independent distribution where the greedy music industry middle-men are cut off at the balls. See ya RIAA and greedy CEOs.
 
As scary as it is, I beleive Apple's chunk is approx $0.10, which would put the mob's chunk at $0.89, 8 cents going to the artist (show me the money trail because I guarantee that they don't get it), leaving 81 cents for the mob.

That's free money, no distribution, marketing, packaging, etc.. it's free, and don't give me that back end junk.. they make that back 100 fold from physical sales, promotions, ad rev, etc.. multiply 81 cents by the 600M plus downloads that Appl'es got and that's a nice chunk of effortless cash, yet they feel they're entitled to more.. think they'll up that supposed 8 cents they "give" back to the artist with the extra cash?

photomaniac said:
okay so as an example of $ from downloading:

.99 cents comes into Apple
.40 cents Apple keeps
.59 cents goes to the Label
the label then has to pay the music publisher about .08 cents
Now the label has .51 cents.
usually the label will then split the remaing with the artist 50/50 which leaves about .25 cents for the label as gross revenue.... which is a long way from the "old" record label business model of selling to a distributor at about $8.00 (of course, excluding expenses) on a $16.98 list price.
We all know even with the packaging and shipping charges of the "old" way, labels made a LOT more money this way.

Yes, labels have a cut that is substantially less than it was with legalized downloading... so 2 things need to happen. ONE is put out better music and cut the "filler" tracks to sell more downloads... and TWO, which is most important, change your business model (STOP LIVING THE SAME LIFESTYLE WITH THE SAME AMOUNTS OF EMPLOYEES, HIGH PAY, AND THE SAME BROADWAY ST. ADDRESS IN NY WITH YOUR $10,000 A MONTH RENT!)

The bunch of old men with their old attitudes of how the music industry is ran need to change or get replaced!

(hope Apple pushes their weight to keep a cap at .99 cents)
MY .02 cents...
 
Ever think that 99cents may be the minimum? Betcha it will be with "hot *****" singles going for above that. You're dealing with organized crime here, they're not really looking to get good press.


pounce said:
what a bunch of pathetic ********. and there is plenty of this sentiment.

but instead of making comments about the legality or ethics involved in that kinded of retarded commentary, the question is this. if you aren't listen to totally horrible music like britney and 50 cent and all of that crap, it looks like the music prices may go down. cheaper prices for labels catalog artists from whom the production costs have already been recuperated.

anyhow, the fact that this may makes the music i like _cheaper_ while still legal is totally cool. it may turn out that i don't like the way the new model is implemented. i'll have to see. but the idea that nobody is discussing how some of their music purchases will be cheaper seems to be only telling part of the story.
 
Load gun. Aim at foot. Pull trigger.

Seriously.

If they're looking to RAISE prices for any songs, they're *completely* shooting themselves in the foot. Why? Simple. I've bought only 2 songs as downloads (both iTunes) for one reason: I like having the liner notes, art, and original CD.

So, if I'm going to buy a whole CD for $9.99, I'm willing to pay an extra $2-3 to get the *actual* CD, which I'll promptly rip into iTunes when I get home.

Many people don't care about having the liner notes, etc, so they're happy to save $2-3 by downloading from iTunes. Raise the "album" price by a couple of bucks, and the only reason to download from iTunes (or any other service) are 1) convenience, and 2) you only want a song or two, not the whole album. I see per-song increases resulting in (1) increased CD sales, (2) decreased legal downloading, and (3) of course, increased illegal downloading.

Now, in the *highly* unlikely scenario that they're wanting to *lower* prices for older or less popular songs, while keeping popular stuff at $0.99, then disregard the above. I'm not holding my breath, though... 🙂

And as someone else pointed out, they're being greedy by wanting to *increase* the per-song price for songs that are *top* sellers (thereby increasing income). So presumably artists who are already making millions off of their songs will get even more money, while artists who are struggling (and probably working other jobs) will get even less money.

As several have said, the music industry sucks. Hard.

None of this will effect me much, though, because I mostly listen to progressive metal (Ex: Dream Theater, Enchant, Vanden Plas, Pain of Salvation, Symphony X, Superior, Conception, Fates Warning, etc), almost none of which is available on any of the download stores. I think some Dream Theater and Fates Warning are on iTunes, but I'm pretty sure that's it (out of my favorite bands, anyway).

As a side-note, if you like Queensryche and/or Rush and/or Yes, check out some of what I mentioned....amazing stuff.

Later,

Craig
 
Madmic23 said:
I don't understand this reasoning. If a popular artist sells one million songs at one dollar, they make one million dollars. If a less popular artists sells one thousand songs at one dollar, they make one dollar (yes, I know not all of that dollar goes to the artist, but I'm generalizing).
How is this not fair? The popular artist will still make more money! This is just pure greed on the part of the record industry.

Yes, however the record companies have already front these bands money to record their albums and tour the albums and merchandising (T-shirts, Thongs, etc.) and promotion (posters, radio spots, internet marketing, etc.) These companies do have some cash outlayed. While the artist hardly sees any of that money in royalties, due to the recording companies contracts, management salaries and policies. So in essence the artists don't make a "million dollars" if a million songs are sold through iTunes. The record companies and some corporations in general have become something, not unlike the U.S. Government today, with the bureaucracy, power and corruption.😡
 
combustible said:
The record companies are NOT doing this to blindly grab a little extra cash. The ITMS market is small. Very small.
They are pushing to charge more for 'superstars' to maintain their influence on the music-buying public. While all the money is being made from a dull repititious few, they can control the airwaves and charts. The way it is done now, with a 'hit single' that gets high rotation (not without a little coersion), and that spurs a massive (and brief) demand for the album, the record companies call the shots.
It is the beautiful democracy of 0.99 tracks that has them scared. It is in their best interests to have just a few artists to flog, and make all their money from them, rather than spreading it over a larger field.
It doesn't have to be this way. We can go the Jobs way.
The top40 doesn't have to be such inane crap. The public can make a free choice from what music is available, not what is force-fed them. The record companies go from being self-ordained gods to servants of the artform, and the public's whims.
(sorry - i am a little naive)

Um I disagree that iTMS is small.
They have sold 500,000,000 songs and have ~80% market share. iTMS would be even bigger if the songs were cheaper. I mean the price now is basically the same as buying a CD but you don't actually get the CD or album.

Lets face it, this is just a cash grab for the recording companies. The artists aren't going to see an extra dime if there is a price increase. I will be very disappointed if this price increase goes thru. Especially after Jobs said that any price above $0.99 is just greed.
 
greedy bastards

mac-er said:
Number 1 song would cost $1.99 when its first released and then probably drop to 79 cents when no one wants it no more (just like traditional CDs)


Sorry, but i highly doubt any record company would ever sell ANYTHING for less that 99 cents. Unfortunately, if the labels get thier way, prices are going only one way: up. The problem with saying 'hey, but look, these ones are still cheap' is simply that nobody wants them. How many people do you know that go looking through the 5 dollar CD bin to find good music? Sure, you might get lucky once and a while, but not usually.

Tiered pricing is bad for consumers and, dare i say it, bad for record companies. Consumers will go back to P2P. BitTorrent is an amazing thing. I can barely afford to buy music from iTunes now, theres now way in hell i'm paying more.

Screw Sprint too... 2.50 per download? its outragous.
 
Cali_Man said:
I think you people crying out about the RIAA's injustices, etc. need to calm down. Lets just wait and see what comes of this before we organize the lynch mob. Maybe prices won't be affected much, maybe they'll back down, maybe people will just stop paying for music again.


The unfortunate reality is that Copyright Law is currently way out of balance with what is fair and reasonable. Its not just the RIAA's fault, but also Big Corp's like Disney who want to keep works like Mickey Mouse from passing into the public domain.

And as one poster said earlier, how would this be any different than other commodities, such as CD's/DVD's?

Because it is different. When the commodity's owner has his money tied up in a physical product, he has immediate incentives to adjust his prices so as to move inventory that's costing him money to maintain. However, when the product becomes virtual (a download), he has effectively ZERO dollars tied up in inventory...and thus, he is essentially under ZERO compulsion to ever lower his prices.


Can't really fault a business for following a simply supply and demand chart....

True, if classical Supply/Demand rules applied.

But they don't apply here, because under current Copyright Law, the holder has exclusive distribution rights for roughly a Century.

The first copyright law in the USA was the Copyright Act of 1790. It granted a period of 14 years + option to renew for another 14 = 28 years maximum.

Today (as per the 1998 Copyright Term Extension Act), a work for hire is currently protected for 95 years, and a self-owned work is "life of the author plus 70 years".

Futhermore, the history of US Copyrights is that whenever we've gotten close to works starting to pass into the Public Domain, we slap another 20 year extension on. This is exactly what happened in 1998.

And to give you an idea of just how long this "exclusive rights" monopolistic protection is, consider Elvis Presley.

Elvis died at the tragically young age of 42 (January 8, 1935 – August 16, 1977), and has now been dead for almost 30 years. But we're still another 42 years from when "Blue Suide Shoes" will pass into the Public Domain..

...assuming that we don't have yet another copyright extension (a bad assumption).

With the Estate's royalties on his songs not ending until the year 2047:

His widow, Priscilla Presley (born 1945) would be 102 years old. Statistically, the odds are ~100% that she will never live to see the day.

His daughter, Lisa Marie Presley (born 1968) would be 79 years old. Odds are greater than 50% that she won't live to see the day, either.

How about Elvis's grandchildren Danielle (born 1989) and Benjamin (born 1992)?

They would even be 58 and 55 years old, respectively, and the only reason why they'll probably outsurvive the royalties is because Grandpa Elvis died so young. Had Elvis lived to even Age 60 (15 years less than statistical life expectancy), then they'd be 73 and 76 years old and odds are that only 1 of the 2 would have lived to see the day.

Personally, the music of Elvis was before my time. Nevertheless, the odds are that I'll die 10 years before his songs could pass into the public domain.

Now do keep in mind that I have no particular grief in providing legal protection to a "Work" to encourage creativity.

What I have a huge problem with is that the protection is literally 3 generations if its a mere song, but if its a Patentable Invention, its still only a mere 14 years.

Afterall, they're both notable Works from Creativity, so there's no logical reason why the period of protection for the two should not be identical.

If anything, because the standard for being issued a Patent is higher than for a Copyright (since Copyrights are automatic), logically, the protection for a Patent should be longer than a Copyright, not shorter.


-hh
 
if the price of popular stuff goes up, it would hurt the store, but if they also lowered the price of lesser know bands, i'd be really happy.

the problem i see for the music industry is that the popular stuff is the stuff that's easy to pirate. it's easy enough to steal the new 50 Cent album, but really tough to steal a This Day and Age album. the only thing stopping people from stealing the popular stuff is the low prices on itunes.

pop music = easy to steal, so people steal
rare music = hard to steal, so people buy

from where i'm sitting, it makes no sense to raise the prices on the stuff people can get a dozen different ways for free.
 
Agreed

macphisto said:
The music industry is pathetic.

Looks like I will just wait and buy "the popular" music from the "biggest artists" after it is no longer popular and drops in price.

And you wonder why limewire and P2P is so popular.

My vote is for Apple to create it's own recording studio (under the iTunes Originals section) and pay the artists more and woo all the artists away from the money grubbing studios.

I have the feeling that, if they actually do drop the price of the older songs, then the sales of old songs will skyrockets, and new songs if they raise 50% (from $0.99 to $1.49 or greater) will suddenly drop in sales.

Any bets? And then how long until the Music Industry starts to scream out "piracy" again instead of "Damn, we are butt munches!"
 
I would hope the price would cap somewhere reasonable (if the term can even be applied here). However, I think increasing prices is a dangerous act given how easy it is to fire up a P2P and grab the song for absolutely free. Filing suit after suit against various P2P software groups, or going after end-users 'witch hunt style' is sort of a vague threat that most people quietly ignore.

In the end I think people will pay more despite their complaints, but perhaps I'm too cynical. 😀
 
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