Apple to Expand AirTag-Like Unwanted Tracking Alerts to Other Item Trackers in Future iOS Version

[steve09090]

While that will be a great feature many of us look forward to, Apple seems more focused right now on limiting their liability if users of this product get stalked and assaulted/murdered. I can see the lawsuits now.

So you prefer to think about liability and not about the safety of people getting stalked? Liability is a stupid reason. This is about doing what is right, not about self-lording over Apple on the pretense of being morally superior.

Airtag has always been about losing property. The privacy of the people who own it and the people who it follows are at the front of its design. It was designed that way, and people using it to track stolen property are secondary to that as it should be.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

Yes, let's alert the thief whole stole your item being tracked so they can find and disable/discard the airtag so the stolen item cannot be recovered. STUPID.

I don't care if others use it to stalk people. I am worried about my stolen items being gone as well as the cost of my airtag. I guarantee more items are stolen than people being stalked.

What’s stupid, is considering AirTag to be a theft recovery device. It’s a lost-item recovery device, period.

 

[steve09090]

Yes, let's alert the thief whole stole your item being tracked so they can find and disable/discard the airtag so the stolen item cannot be recovered. STUPID.

I don't care if others use it to stalk people. I am worried about my stolen items being gone as well as the cost of my airtag. I guarantee more items are stolen than people being stalked.

I think this pretty much puts a line under this discussion. Apple/Google are doing the right thing and hold the higher moral ground here when there are people who believe a stolen bike, left unchained outside of a cafe is more important than a domestic violence victim being stalked and later assaulted. I guess if people get their bike back, right?

 

[svish]

Good to see all the other companies supporting this.

 

[MrTemple]

So the criminal who stole the item... any idea what they would choose? Oh that's right, they would locate the tracker and toss it. So law enforcement will find the tracker sans stolen item.

Secret, non-consensual tracking is never coming back.

I’m willing to let my phone help you find your stuff (this is how AirTags work).

But I’ll be goddamed if I’m going to let my phone help stalk somebody.

 

[MrTemple]

I agree that Apple is going too far with the anti-stalking to the point of making them less useful.

Tell me you don’t understand stalking without telling me you don’t understand stalking.

 

[koil]

Now, if only Apple and Alphabet could work together on a new stardard to replace SMS. It doesn't have to be RCS. It'd be nice to have something that's encrypted and cross platform compatible

The EU:s DMA law requires interoperability between their services, the interoperable protocol may be exactly what you're wishing for.

 

[AgeOfSpiracles]

And that's what makes me wonder how this new partnership or whatever will unfold for other items that aren't AirTags. Would hate to have that experience any time I'm on a bus, plane or train, concert or other event for an extended period around lots of other trackable items.

My suspicion is that AirPods are a strange case, because they weren't designed to be "on" all the time. They turn off when the are in the case with the lid closed, and I think that causes the FindMy system to get a little confused, like in your case. I've never had that specific thing happen, but I will sometimes get an alert that I have left my AirPods behind when they are in my pocket, 18 inches away from my phone or watch. That has never happened with an AirTag, and I'm tempted to believe that 3rd party dedicated trackers will behave similarly.... time will tell I guess.

 

[jlc1978]

The EU:s DMA law requires interoperability between their services, the interoperable protocol may be exactly what you're wishing for.

It will be inetersting to see what eventually happens. As I read it, it doesn't necessarily require a common protocol, just interoperablity. Each service could setup its own API and encryption protocols; and it appears only to apply to gatekeepers to smaller services, not between gatekeepers. Nothing I saw requires full access to all features, either; nor does it appear to apply trackers such as AirTags.

From a security standpoint, in theory a bad actor could create a service, request access, and now have a way to easily read messages since they are at one end of the encryption protocol. I suspect the EU will spend a lot of time sorting out what they really want and what can be done.

 

[gelno]

Now, if only Apple and Alphabet could work together on a new stardard to replace SMS. It doesn't have to be RCS. It'd be nice to have something that's encrypted and cross platform compatible

This is EXACTLY what I said when I saw this article!

 

[RalfTheDog]

When are they going to let my wife and I see the same air tags on each of our phones?? It's crazy there isn't family sharing on Air Tags yet...

The problem is, that could and would allow family members to stalk family members.

Yes, and here's another thing: in crowds moving about, are we going to get bombarded with these alerts because people around us have an AirTag attached to their keychains, etc? When in short-term proximity, Apple won't know if the airtag has been "attached" to track me or still in the person next to me's possession. So am I deleting alert notices that I MIGHT be being tracked because people around me are using AirTags? If so, that would seem nuisance much more than beneficial... EXCEPT, in those much fewer cases where someone is actually being nefariously tracked with one.

No. Not if you bring your phone with you.

Something I haven't been able to google successfully but wonder is would this happen if an AirTag is around you but so is the owner with their phone? Presumably that would be a criteria for the AirTag not to alert people that the AirTag is following them because those scenarios would generally be someone physically with you traveling together, so those notifications would be undesired in most cases.

If you have your phone with you or, you are at one of your known frequent locations, you should be fine.

If many people are flying/riding a train/bussing/carpooling for "a few hours," are the Apple people among them getting these prompts? I've sat in simple traffic jams for upwards of a "few hours" at a few points in life.

At amusement parks, when we stand in slow-moving lines for a hour or two, are the Apple people in that line getting these prompts?

Cruise ships passengers all in relative proximity to each other for the duration of the cruise?

You might run into trouble if you keep your phone with you, but you keep your tags in your cabin. You would need to be away from your tags for quite some time. If Apple was smart, they would also increase the amount of time before the tag was reported if, you had been using that tag for a very long time. Lets say, you purchase a tag today and put it in a stripper's purse 20 minutes later, the alarm should go off much faster.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Either you are understanding or misunderstanding something about this story, or I am.

Scenario: Bad guy wants to track you or me. They buy AirTags and sneak one on us. The story seems to say that our iDevice would notice we're being tracked and alert us that an AirTag that is not ours seems to be moving along with us.

That seems good. It addresses the stalker issue that the new programming in this story seems to be about.

Scenario 2: a bunch of people with AirTags are all riding along with you or me on a train, a bus, a street car, subway, walking along as a group, in a tour group, in a long line at the airport, in long lines at theme parks, on the cruise ship with us, etc. How does this new programming know that those people are not stalkers trying to track you or me? It seems like it couldn't really tell the difference. Do you or me get upwards of a bunch of alerts that we might be being stalked by these other people's AirTags that just happen to be moving along with us (because they are)? AND does pretty much everyone else in that crowd also get a bunch of stalker notifications because they too seem to be followed in fairly close proximity with these other people's AirTags?

And while we could assume that that's why we're getting potential stalker notifications... AGAIN... imagine the creeping doubt for some wondering if it really is that... AGAIN... or if someone has snuck an AirTag on them somewhere. So then we need to spend some time fully checking ourselves head to toe just to be sure. How many times do we do that thorough self-check before this is driving us bonkers?

See the problem I think I see with this story? Or am I missing something?

The stalking thing is not tied to an AirTag being right on our persons. For example, there's already been some stories where one was attached to someone's car. That conceivably puts several feet between the stalked person and the AirTag. Presumably, this story says that that scenario should trigger a notification to warn the stalked. Now, put the same person in the smallish crowd where lots of other people have their own AirTags perhaps on keychains or in wallets/purses and such within the assumed, potential stalking distance. Do potentially stalked warnings fly to everyone? Conceptually YES.

I find myself in a variety of situations where strangers are in comparable proximity to me for periods of time. Am I feeling hassled by notifications warning me of potential stalking because these other people have AirTags on them (not associated with my iDevice)? Are they feeling hassled too because whoever around us with AirTags on them could also be interpreted as potentially "following" them, and thus they are getting "you may be being stalked" notifications?

A popular use of AirTags is to put them on a dogs collar. Imagine the poor dog walkers walking multiple dogs with other people's AirTags in some collars, which- apparently to this system- seem to be "following" them along. The poor dog walker entrepreneur might be getting notification after notification warning them that they may be being stalked.

And that's just ONE scenario. There's so many like that. Is the luggage cart driver at the airport getting potential stalker notifications because AirTags in luggage on the carts behind them seem to be following them? That should be proximity equivalent to stalkers putting AirTags on cars.

Someone sends a package to someone else and, for whatever reason, they tuck an AirTag inside. Is the poor mailman/UPS/FEDEX delivery person getting "you might be being stalked" notifications EVERY DAY because some boxes in their truck have AirTags in them and seem to be following the driver?

Are the truckers with tons of packages in their truck getting "you may be being stalked" notification for the same reason?

And on and on.

Note that all of this is not me putting down Apple, AirTags or even the concept of trying to resolve the stalking scenario. This apparent remedy to that problem though SEEMS like it brings a LOT of potential hassles... what SEEMS like it will be a LOT of "boy who cried wolf" notifications where one is not really stalked, but the system suspects it because someone in the group moving along with them remains close enough that it MIGHT be a stalking scenario. I foresee too many false notifications that results in just ignoring them and/or seeking apps that will block that type of notification due to the hassle of "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!"

 

[MrTemple]

Note that all of this is not me putting down Apple, AirTags or even the concept of trying to resolve the stalking scenario. This apparent remedy to that problem though SEEMS like it brings a LOT of potential hassles... what SEEMS like it will be a LOT of "boy who cried wolf" notifications where one is not really stalked, but the system suspects it because someone in the group moving along with them remains close enough that it MIGHT be a stalking scenario. I foresee too many false notifications that results in just ignoring them and/or seeking apps that will block that type of notification due to the hassle of "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!"

All of the 'cry wolf' scenarios you theorized boil down to two situations:

1. You are travelling with an AirTag that is near its owner.

2. You are travelling with things that belong to somebody else NOT nearby.

Case #1 is easy. All tracking is mediated through Apple's servers anyway (this is how AirTags work). If it's travelling with the owner (or one of the set of owners/family), it needs no warning.

It doesn't even have to be travelling super close. Imagine your bags are in the back of the train and you're sitting up front. You're still going from the same location-to-location-to-location with your AirTag, even if you're 100m from the tag itself, you're still travelling with it.

For case #2, I don't see that as "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!" "wolf!".

I see that as one of the following:
- "allow this dog's airtag to track me"
- "ignore tracking warnings while my 'Working for UPS' focus is on"

Boom. Solved. Can still track thieves. AND we prevented insanely accessible, highly effective stalking via AirTags.

Next?

 

[jlc1978]

I had a good experience with them. Laned at Portella and Delta said my luge had arrived at bagge claim. Tracked missing bag and found someone grabbed it hy mistake. Asked them to check tag and they realized it wasn’t there bag.

 

[MrTemple]

I had a good experience with them. Laned at Portella and Delta said my luge had arrived at bagge claim. Tracked missing bag and found someone grabbed it hy mistake. Asked them to check tag and they realized it wasn’t there bag.

I hate when I pick up the wrong luge. So embarrassing! 🛷

😉😁

 

[_Spinn_]

Seems like a good move.

Now if Apple could give us Family Sharing...