Well that too, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it's all about the "employees" getting due compensation.
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Apple to Face Class Action Lawsuit Over Off-the-Clock Employee Bag Checking
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Well that too, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it's all about the "employees" getting due compensation.
A change in the policy would be more than they have had so far, so it's still something better and something gained from their point of view.
Wow, imagine complaining to your boss that you want those extra 10-30 seconds of payment during a bag check. You'd sound like Julius from Everybody Hates Chris. "That's 9 cents' worth of bag checking!"
You know, this kind of attitude (^^^^^^) is why we had a revolution in this country. Maybe your cool with it in the UK, but over here....not so much. I dont care if its 10 seconds or 10 minutes or 10 hours, its my time. Attitude like that comes from the same people that say, hey just let the police kick in your door whenever they please without a warrant...if your not doing anything wrong,who cares. Let the police stop you and search you whenever they please, if your not hiding anything then no problem. Let the police arrest you and hold you indefinitely without charges, if your innocent you'll be let go......eventually.
By all means,if you're cool with that over in the UK, put up with it. Over here, if I choose to watch a match burn for 10 seconds and you arent paying me........suck it, thats what I want to do,what do you care. Pay me, and you can search my bag for 10 hours, I dont care.
Your comparison between police breaking & entering and not being paid for 10 seconds is highly relatable.
Here in the UK you are lucky to even get a job due to the employment shortage (arguably caused by immigrants who are willing to work for less money or for longer hours - another discussion). So the likelihood of someone turning around and saying 'Hey what about that extra 10 seconds I did last Friday?' is very small. The minimum wage is not appropriately in proportion with living costs and unemployment, due to our silly benefit system, is actually favoured in some parts of the country.
I'm glad the 'revolution' has worked out for you and I hope you enjoy your compensation culture. Clearly your time is money you must be a very important person - the time it took you to type that comment you could have made some serious bucks my friend!
On another note and to keep on topic - I think the largest issue is not the compensation of time, it's the embarrassment of being search on the shop floor which should never happen.
Disregarding your idea that jobs are a privilege, when I hire somebody, I implicitly trust them. That's why they are in my home. I may have loss prevention methods, just like a store does as well--and it's all built into the balance sheet. To be clear, I have a private chef, a housekeeper that comes daily and a personal assistant and all of them has full access to my home; this is not theoretical to me but something I have considered in great length. Going through their personal property without cause does not qualify as being okay. I have talked to my personal assistant who had a similar situation with a prominent UES family and she quit on the spot. Good for her.
Nowhere in the suit does it allege anything was taken; rather this is a preemptive measure which causes every employee to lose their personal time and not be compensated for it and can cause issues with people's losing their privacy (no employer has the right to know your health conditions, there are various legal frameworks in place that make this quite clear). If bag checks were instituted on an ad hoc basis because something went missing and loss prevention followed some protocol that is a separate issue but that is not what is being discussed here so I won't dignify your rant with any more text on your hypothetical situation.
I get some parents in my neighborhood having nanny cams. It's not okay with me. I can see you're fine with it. What a sad world people live in when they hire someone to take care of their business, or their most important thing in their life: Their children and not trust them. Maybe they don't trust themselves.
You are fudging two distinct jobs: (1) retail level jobs of young employees that are paid hourly and (2) jobs meant as a "career" that are typically paid on salary, regardless of hours worked. I would recommend you get the backpay you deserve rather than arguing another group doesn't deserve it. This mindset blows me away.
When I worked for the fruityard they made you show your serial number on your phone and compare it to a card you had to keep with you. You had to write down all your device serial numbers. MacBook Pros, iPads, iPhones, iPods. Anything Apple. I envied those with Androids who could just leave after clocking out. You had to clock out right at the end of your shift, otherwise you get in trouble for working overtime. Then you had to find a manager, and in a busy store it wasn't easy to spot one.
The comparison was in the attitude of people......based on your comment....like you, who are willing to give up their rights. Then to be clear I gave examples. Obviously I, personally wouldnt complain if it was a quick ten second search of my bag in the back. But we arent talking about just ten seconds. More like 15 minutes but the amount of time doesnt seem to be where our disagreement lies. I have the feeling we just fundamentally disagree about some basic principles. I feel that people have fought and died to secure some very important rights for us. Not just soldiers but workers also. I feel that I deserve to be compensated for my time, be it 10 seconds or 10 minutes or 10 hours. You seem to feel that unless your a "very important person" like I dont know, maybe the king or queen? Then you dont deserve that. If ten seconds isnt worth fighting for is 3 minutes? How about 5 minutes? How about 15 minutes? How about if your employer says you dont get a lunch break? When exactly do your rights or the rights of others become important enough to you?
The second someone attempts to relieve of mine, I fight. I guess you dont. Hence my examples. While they may have not been exactly analogous to this situation, I feel they did speak to peoples attitude on when they feel its important enough to fight back. Too many in my country just piss on them and say go ahead search my car, there isnt anything illegal in it. Go ahead pull me over for nothing, Im not doing anything. By the time it gets to a point that they say, oh wait,NOW you've gone too far, you cant do that, their being herded into a cattle car on their way to a concentration camp.
I worked in a retail store inside a mall and it was the stores policy that whenever you left the store, whether it be for break, or to go home, you had to be bag checked. This policy was explained on day one and if you did not agree to it you were free to leave. Any employee, whether they were the newest part-timer all the way up to the President of the company were subject to this check. These bag checks and pat downs took all of maybe 10-20 seconds.
I doubt Apple would see a need to do this if "shrinkage" weren't an issue. I'm aware that other retailers do this, and it only take a few seconds to look inside a bag, so I don't understand why it's taking 10-15 minutes?
I'm biased because I've encountered too many snotty Apple Store workers -- they think they're special because they work for Apple. Yet it's the lowest rung on the ladder -- it's just a retail store, get over yourselves. One particularly fat manager at the Richmond Short Pump practically cried over having to type in a number because it wouldn't scan from the hard copy print-out and had the nerve to tell me how I should do it better next time, even though it was an extenuating one-off matter -- what a retard.
I'm biased because I've encountered too many snotty Apple Store workers -- they think they're special because they work for Apple. Yet it's the lowest rung on the ladder -- it's just a retail store, get over yourselves. One particularly fat manager at the Richmond Short Pump practically cried over having to type in a number because it wouldn't scan from the hard copy print-out and had the nerve to tell me how I should do it better next time, even though it was an extenuating one-off matter -- what a retard.
While I agree with you, that it *should* be on company time if the company insists on it, that's not how it actually works.
In fact, this case *is* very clear-cut. It's already been argued, and lost, at the Supreme Court level by Amazon workers.
You're right. You cannot be held against your will (whether off the clock, or not, it makes no difference). However, if you leave without going through the search, you'll be fired *with cause*. That means no unemployment while you try to find a new job.
Boom. The reason we shouldn't trust everyone. People steal. A lot. http://www.cultofmac.com/329578/amazon-employee-steals-12-5k-of-iphones-ipads-and-other-devices/
The sad fact of the matter is this:
You don't have to trust anyone *unless* they can harm you in some way. It's only the people who can do something to harm you that you need to trust at *any* level.
- Joe Schmoe, lives in Jamaica, and runs a food stand. There's absolutely nothing he can do that can cause you harm unless you visit Jamaica. You don't need to trust him.
- Jane Schmoe, retail customer in your store. You need to trust her at some level, because if you didn't, you wouldn't let her in your store, and she wouldn't *be* a customer.
- John Schmoe, retail employee in your store. You need to trust him at some level, because you hired him to do a job. If you didn't trust him to do it, you wouldn't have hired him in the first place.
The difference here is that for enough people often enough that process took a considerably longer amount of time.
That's rather lofty. Having a job is a privilege, it is not a basic human right. Having money isn't a basic human right. An employee and employer have a mutual interest. One needs labor and the other needs compensation at fair market value for their skills. The employee can walk any time he/she wants, get a better opportunity, ect. The employer can fire the employee for a variety of reasons (less discrimination) and that can include a simply reduction in work force at any given time. You think employees who give their job zero notice when they walk give a rip what predicament that puts the business in? It cuts both ways, lets not pretend the business in the devil in all circumstances.
You say companies don't hire you out of the goodness of their hearts, they only hire for employees to make "them" money. As if the employee doesn't get paid. If the employee feels they're being "exploited", WALK. No one is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to stay in any given job.
Thank you! I am a very grateful person but I also don't believe in lowering the standard of respect by which we all owe each other! I expect to work hard, and I expect to be treated with respect. How did we "evolve" into a third-world standard of employment? As to the merits of the case, that is a different matter. However, it should be approached with the understanding that these corporations are becoming extremely wealthy off the backs of their employees. Therefore, it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to see that their employees DO INDEED deserve respect and fair employment.
Sorry I don't know what you mean by "Boom". I am American but have been living in the UK for the past 11 years, and that particular (ghetto?) jargon seems to have eluded me. I have guessed as to its meaning, but have not been able to determine if it is a positive or negative term.
Ah, mud-slinging. It's the generic weapon of choice for those who have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion.
Even though the argument was made that employees wouldn't have to steal if apple paid a livable wage? Man, I've seen discussions here venture much further from the "topic" than that.
As a former Apple Retail employee I can assure that the reason these employees are making these claims goes deeper than a bag check. They probably extremely unhappy with their working conditions and have issues with their managers. I will say that sometimes it was often hard to find a manger not busy to check your back which was annoying but usually just a quick glance in the bag was, just to say they did it.
For those who do not know there are mandatory "tech checks." when you leave your shift. The serial numbers to all of your apple products are written on a card and your manager checks it to make sure the serials match up. If you take an phone, iPod, laptop, and watch to work, yes it may take a minute. I can't imagine a sneer where it takes 10 minutes. something else must be wrong with leadership in this store.
For those who do not know there are mandatory "tech checks." when you leave your shift. The serial numbers to all of your apple products are written on a card and your manager checks it to make sure the serials match up. If you take an phone, iPod, laptop, and watch to work, yes it may take a minute. I can't imagine a sneer where it takes 10 minutes. something else must be wrong with leadership in this store.