Apple to Halt Mac Pro Sales in Europe Effective March 1 Over Regulatory Requirements

[lesreaper2009]

And to be honest....PC's these days already running circles around the Mac Pro, in the future more circles each round. It's sad, but the Apple is for the masses and for those whom are willing to pay a bit extra for design. And I can't deny, the Apple products do look fine. But I rather choose for an 'ugly' looking machine that can deal with extreme high demands over 'shiny bling bling', good for editing movies in HD format but not so good for high demands rendering animations and movie beyond 2K.

I'll say it again.I used to think that too until somebody actually ran real-world tests.

In real world testing from the FB site "We Want a New Mac Pro", where Dell gave him a 16-core, $10k+ beast, there was neglible difference with renders in After Effects and Cinebench (Cinema 4D) and the latest 12-core 3.06 Mac Pros.

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[SmileyBlast!]

Yes. Especially since that amendment addition "evolved" for about 8 years (it was announced in the EU in 2005!).

Lol. Well they've been busy working on the iPhone and such. It's the thing that heralded in the Post PC revolution after all.

I guess its more affordable to be reactive than proactive on EU regulations.

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Oh god! What am I going to use to grate my cheese now?

You could use your Mac Pro Cooling Fan.

 

[bjeadeh]

I'm with the Pope!

For the first time, I'm genuinely starting to worry.

I work in pro audio and *really* need a new Mac Pro, because my aging 1st generation quad-core no longer has the horsepower required to run modern audio plugins the way I need to.

I would be rushing to the Apple Store tomorrow, debit card in hand, if all Apple did was release exactly the same Mac Pro as they have now, but with up-to-date processor architecture and a couple of Thunderbolt connectors.

I'm all for a redesign, but only as long as Apple doesn't do one of those redesigns that entails deleting a bunch of features it thinks people no longer need. Because I'm people, and I do!

I need a minimum of three PCIe slots for Pro Tools HD, UAD2 DSP, RME MADI interfaces, etc.
I need Firewire 800. Several expensive external devices I depend on use Firewire only.
I need that built-in optical TOS-link audio output (even though I have very expensive external interfaces as well)
I need to be able to run three monitors simultaneously.
I need lots of fast, cheap, internal storage.

I realise that's a lot of "I need, I need..." But as far as my work is concerned, it really is all about me. I know more about what I need to do my job than Apple do. Apple could of course ask me...

And if anyone suggests that you can do all your expansion externally these days - even if all these devices were available as external Thunderbolt devices, which they're not - a smaller computer with half a dozen extra boxes and their power supplies all hanging off the Thunderbolt bus is in no way a more convenient or elegant solution than housing them inside the computer. My studio is enough of a tangled mess already thank you very much.


I've been an Mac owner and user since the late eighties. I still have the IIcx that I spent my life savings on in 1988 in the loft. If this European ban does turn out to be a subtle excuse for cancelling the Mac Pro line later on, then it's the end of a long happy road for me and Apple. I'm not confident that I can reliably do everything I do now on a Windows system. Plus I detest Windows. I only use Windows if someone holds a metaphorical gun to my head. I'd basically be sitting there in my studio all day, mixing with one hand and metaphorically blowing my own brains out with the other.

I hope Apple remember that it was the loyalty of professional creative arts users kept them in business thru all those difficult years. Some loyalty in return would be nice. After all, it's not as if they sell Mac Pros at a loss...

Popelife, I am right there with you on the failings of the Mac Pro. I, like you, have been waiting for a decade to update my G-4's. I have since gotten an Imac, Mac Mini, Mac Book Pro, Ipad, Ipod, three Iphones, but none of them have the power I need or the features I need to do professional audio. Yeah yeah yeah, I can do Final Cut Pro, but even with FCP X, I am dropping frames on my Firewire Raid systems. These small computers are convenient, but they can't handle more than a 3 camera shoot or a 16 track audio recording at 48K like even the PCI machines did. Sure they upgraded to PCIe in the G5's, but those computers had serious issues. That is when I had to go to Firewire only and put any PCIe interfaces on hold, and the ones I did have, not make any money. That's the true tragedy here. And I can't believe that there is not one thunderbolt or USB 3 audio interface on the market today. What is up with that? Do all these companies think that Apple will decide to go back to FW800 or finally do the FW1600 one of these days? And why won't Apple update the Mac Pro? Sure it's a shrinking market, but there is no competition out there. PC's? Come on, lets get serious.
You should start a support group so we can all cry about how unsupporting Apple has been towards the audio profession. We can not only talk about the lack of an expandable desktop mainframe, but we can rip apart the whole Logic Pro issue. And, is Apple just trying to insult everybody by putting all the connectors on the back of the Imac? The side if the new Imac can easily house the SD card slot. But what is wrong with the front. Just put it under the Apple logo, then it will look like the logo is underlined.
What would make me happy??? Sure a Mac Pro, at a reasonable price of course, but how about a touchscreen Imac? No mixing console needed at that point, just a couple of the RME fireface UFX's, Pro Tools, and a usb hard drive.

 

[apple-win]

Dell Precision T7600 Workstation Vs Apple Mac Pro

http://www.dell.com/downloads/globa...00_vs_apple_mac_pro_video_rendering_study.pdf

 

[snberk103]

I'll say it again.I used to think that too until somebody actually ran real-world tests.

In real world testing from the FB site "We Want a New Mac Pro", where Dell gave him a 16-core, $10k+ beast, there was neglible difference with renders in After Effects and Cinebench (Cinema 4D) and the latest 12-core 3.06 Mac Pros.

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Good Point. And that is because Apple Engineers do a good job of making sure that the entire system is well balanced, and that no single bottleneck throttles the rest of the components. This shows that a system only works as fast as the slowest components. But too often people buy on the speed on the fastest components.

 

[lukasz74nj]

Mac Pro is a joke!

I would rather build a Hackintosh from the latest and greatest components, instead of buying an outdated and overpriced Mac Pro model!

 

[jlc1978]

While Apple could have redesigned the Mac Pro to meet this new requirement it simply may not have been cost effective. The EU sales my not be enough to cover the cost of redesign, retooling and recertifying (if required)the MP; especially if they plan to EOL it or introduce a new model. In either case, milking it until they can no longer sell it is the right business move.
It's already a tiny fraction of sales and more importantly margin and it is not really clear how it fits into Apple's long term strategy; so it is not surprising it is relegated to the back burner.

 

[MisterKeeks]

A company sitting on over $130B in cash and who just posted record year-over-year sales and profits (over $13B) should be ashamed of themselves for not updating their flagship product.

The Mac Pro is not their flagship product.

 

[sjinsjca]

Tim Cook is a very straightforward guy. If he said something is coming later this year, you can bank on it. And I'm sure this forum will be split between breathless awe and schoolmarmish nitpicking as always.

 

[snberk103]

While Apple could have redesigned the Mac Pro to meet this new requirement it simply may not have been cost effective. The EU sales my not be enough to cover the cost of redesign, retooling and recertifying (if required)the MP; ...

You may have something with the "recertification." Apple presumably had enough lead time to make any changes required. These requirements are rolled out to give manufacturers enough time to alter, test, and then the changes certified. But they have to wait for the governing authority to 'certify' the product. It's possible that Apple didn't bother making the changes because they thought they would have a new product that met the amendied requirements out in time. If there was a delay with the new product, they get caught with neither product available.

Or... this is the end of the Mac Pro as we know it, and therefore they are spending no money on something that is about to be retired. Of course that means that might just have a whole different form factor that still meets the needs of us pros, eh?

Optimist = half full
Pessimist = half empty
Canadian = Time To Order Another Round Of Beer!

 

[iRCL]

A company sitting on over $130B in cash and who just posted record year-over-year sales and profits (over $13B) should be ashamed of themselves for not updating their flagship product. You can't tell me that Apple hasn't made a conscious decision to let this product die. Apple is such a large company and they can't update the Mac Pro to current industry specs for over two years? Something doesn't sound right...

Sure hasn't hampered their profitability

Sorry, but nobody cares about Mac Pro. It makes no sense. Maybe it used to. things change

Mac mini is way higher value proposition. If you need 32 cores, whatever you're doing shouldn't be done under OS X.

When they redo Mac Pro lets all hope that they switch it to desktop class top spec i7. You know, the processor that anyone spec'ing a strong machine gets. Unless you are a Mac person, since that option isn't on the table

 

[K42]

Sure hasn't hampered their profitability

Sorry, but nobody cares about Mac Pro.

Right.

You are saying this in post #412 of this thread.

 

[violst]

Sure hasn't hampered their profitability

Sorry, but nobody cares about Mac Pro. It makes no sense. Maybe it used to. things change

Mac mini is way higher value proposition. If you need 32 cores, whatever you're doing shouldn't be done under OS X.

When they redo Mac Pro lets all hope that they switch it to desktop class top spec i7. You know, the processor that anyone spec'ing a strong machine gets. Unless you are a Mac person, since that option isn't on the table

What are you talking about?? like K42 is implying 412 people posting about this topic care! If you don't care and want a core i7 then get an iMac, case closed for you.

I hate to break the news to you but both HP and Dell build xeon class workstations not just apple. And I'm sure there are others that I haven't looked into. Tons of pros who need that kind of power care and yes I would like 32 cores and be on OSX. Thats not far fetched.

If you don't need a Mac Pro then get the mac mini or iMac if it fits your needs, but they don't fit mine. Myself and many others want a new Mac Pro.

 

[iSayuSay]

Sure hasn't hampered their profitability

Sorry, but nobody cares about Mac Pro. It makes no sense. Maybe it used to. things change

Mac mini is way higher value proposition. If you need 32 cores, whatever you're doing shouldn't be done under OS X.

When they redo Mac Pro lets all hope that they switch it to desktop class top spec i7. You know, the processor that anyone spec'ing a strong machine gets. Unless you are a Mac person, since that option isn't on the table

I might not be a MacPro person or loyalist nowadays. But telling that Mac Mini has higher value is kinda FUD too.

Because people also find it hard to spend $700 on a shiny Aluminum desktop box with mobile parts! It's not powerful enough, nor portable enough. It can do Facebook and Youtube videos, maybe. But so does a MBA for $200 more and it has built in display.

Add $1000 for Thunderbolt Display on top of that and you get a $1700 headless Macbook Pro powered by almighty Intel HD4000 .. Uh, huh .
Or you can spend that money for a base 27" iMac which has more power.

 

[pertusis1]

Disingenuous comparison

http://www.dell.com/downloads/globa...00_vs_apple_mac_pro_video_rendering_study.pdf

Rather unfair price comparison, eh. Four 512 GB drives to drive up the Mac price...

 

[AidenShaw]

Rather unfair price comparison, eh. Four 512 GB drives to drive up the Mac price...

Right... The Dell is still 8x faster than the Apple - if you tweak the configs, the Dell will still be 8x faster than the Apple.

Remember

What goes around, comes around. Apple is now the snail.

 

[pertusis1]

I don't disagree

#417

I don't disagree that Apple does not have the fastest workstation on the market at the moment. Like bunches of other people in this thread, I'm chomping on the bit to buy a workstation Mac. I'm not at all amused at their slow upgrade cycle, and I was forced to get an i7 mini as a place-holder until they do a real upgrade.

I'm just saying that the Pro is not that much more expensive than similar Xeon workstations. They priced that pro with stock apple ram and hard drives (who actually gets their ram and SSDs from Apple when they buy a unit?).

One funny thing about reading all of these posts is that I have a feeling that a lot of the most irate log entries are being put in by people who will be the first in line to buy a new mac pro

 

[AidenShaw]

#417

I don't disagree that Apple does not have the fastest workstation on the market at the moment. Like bunches of other people in this thread, I'm chomping on the bit to buy a workstation Mac. I'm not at all amused at their slow upgrade cycle, and I was forced to get an i7 mini as a place-holder until they do a real upgrade.

Why weren't you "forced to move to Windows on real professional grade hardware"?

You have some faith that a "real upgrade" is coming to the Apple Pro - but that seems less likely than Apple killing the Apple Pro product line.

 

[verniesgarden]

A company sitting on over $130B in cash and who just posted record year-over-year sales and profits (over $13B) should be ashamed of themselves for not updating their flagship product. You can't tell me that Apple hasn't made a conscious decision to let this product die. Apple is such a large company and they can't update the Mac Pro to current industry specs for over two years? Something doesn't sound right...

The Mac Pro is far from their flagship product, I'd say the iMac or the macbook pro is their flagship computer, maybe even the iPhone/iPod/iPad. that's they're bread and butter.

 

[deeter]

I'll say it again.I used to think that too until somebody actually ran real-world tests.

In real world testing from the FB site "We Want a New Mac Pro", where Dell gave him a 16-core, $10k+ beast, there was neglible difference with renders in After Effects and Cinebench (Cinema 4D) and the latest 12-core 3.06 Mac Pros.

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Dude, You Gettin' a Dell? Former Apple Editors Choose 'Yes, Bro' over Mac Pro for Performance

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/01/editors-choose-dell-over-apple-mac-pro/

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Are you EU folks that inept!?!?

Attention everyone in the UK: DO NOT stick your fingers into moving fan blades. It will hurt!

P.S. God save the Queen and all that other crap.

Cheers.

Gee, I wonder why we bother to put covers on fans at all in the U.S. by that line of thinking. Yeah, just don't touch the high speed spinning fan blades on all your household fans. Why should companies bother to spend money on safety covers?

Hey, maybe a simpler idea would have been for Apple to just put a lousy cover over the exposed blades. What would that have cost them? 50 cents? Yeah, if a company as rich as Apple can't abide by the laws of the countries they wish to sell their products in then the correct response is to not defend Apple not wishing to spend 50 cents to put a cover on their computer that they've had years of notice to correct, but to simply ban or start fining them until they comply. It doesn't matter if the rules are goofy or not. I think 65mph speed limits are goofy when I own a car that can brake at twice the rate of typical cars and outmaneuver most of the cars on the road and with a proper driver would be safer going 80 than most cars going 55, but if I break them and get caught I pay the fine. The judge doesn't want to hear that kind of logic. You either comply or you pay or you get the rules changed.

Personally, I think it hardly matters for the most part. The Mac Pro is SO overpriced and SO out of date it's a freaking joke. I mean a total laugh-a-thon. Other than the possibility of multiple processors beyond four, the thing is out of date in every other possible area from available graphics cards to lack of USB3 to lack of Thunderbolt and STILL looks like a freaking cheese grater half a decade later. If small companies like Alienware can put out a variety of slick cases and custom built towers using standardized parts (and there's NOTHING special about the Motherboard Apple uses in the Mac Pro), then WTF can't Apple spare one or two guys to update the darn thing every year? It's just STANDARDIZED PARTS for goodness sake! It's not rocket science. Most people on here could build their own Hackintosh with little difficulty that would run circles around the Mac Pro in most areas for 1/3 the price.

Apple, however, has designed themselves into a corner by incorporating Thunderbolt into the Mini-Display Port with the GPU tied in. That means most standard graphics cards can't just be flashed and expected to offer those features. Apple would need custom hardware once again to offer similar output to their other computer lines. The sad part is Thunderbolt is a massive failure for the most part anyway in terms of adoption and price so I see it as a universally bad move. They would have been far better off keeping Thunderbolt out of the GPU loop. The whole daisy-chain a monitor and swap cables all day long to add/remove TB devices with all monitor's except Apple's gets old quick.

Sure a Mac Pro, at a reasonable price of course, but how about a touchscreen Imac? No mixing console needed at that point, just a couple of the RME fireface UFX's, Pro Tools, and a usb hard drive.

I brought up a similar idea in another thread and the usual suspects defend EVERYTHING Apple does no matter how inane it is. Apple could easily offer a reasonably priced "PowerMac" once again that could keep up with PC gaming rigs. They don't care. They could easily update the Mac Pro to at least have USB3 and a non-GPU Thunderbolt port and maybe eSata built-in (among other things) just using mostly standardized parts with a few tweaks. They WON'T do it. It's because they consider those markets paltry compared to iOS/iPhone/iPad sales and can barely update their regular Mac lines at a reduced pace with most new OSX features centered around mimicking iOS (yet not taking the most logical step of offering touch-screens on their notebooks and iMacs and Thunderbolt monitors).

Apple can't seems to manage regular maintenance of their non-iOS lines at this point, let alone offer "innovation". It's probably why their stock is dropping despite massive profits. People can see a dark tunnel ahead with no signs of light at the end of it.

 

[Woyzeck]

Good Point. And that is because Apple Engineers do a good job of making sure that the entire system is well balanced, and that no single bottleneck throttles the rest of the components. This shows that a system only works as fast as the slowest components. But too often people buy on the speed on the fastest components.

You mean the guys that decided to use a 5.6k magnetic disk in the new iMac ?

 

[KaraH]

a lot of apple fanboys drink the cool-aid

Unfortunately that is true for quite a few that started buying iStuff in the past decade or so. The 'let it die! I do not need it' crowd. Talk to apple's customers who have been loyal to them from the beginning (who are more likely to need/want pros and probably hold actual stock in the company too) who sang their praises in the bad years (then got called fanboys/fangirls) and you get an entirely different story.

 

[chrisd1974]

Try this: http://nofilmschool.com/build-a-hackintosh/

For the first time, I'm genuinely starting to worry.

I work in pro audio and *really* need a new Mac Pro, because my aging 1st generation quad-core no longer has the horsepower required to run modern audio plugins the way I need to.

I would be rushing to the Apple Store tomorrow, debit card in hand, if all Apple did was release exactly the same Mac Pro as they have now, but with up-to-date processor architecture and a couple of Thunderbolt connectors.

I'm all for a redesign, but only as long as Apple doesn't do one of those redesigns that entails deleting a bunch of features it thinks people no longer need. Because I'm people, and I do!

I need a minimum of three PCIe slots for Pro Tools HD, UAD2 DSP, RME MADI interfaces, etc.
I need Firewire 800. Several expensive external devices I depend on use Firewire only.
I need that built-in optical TOS-link audio output (even though I have very expensive external interfaces as well)
I need to be able to run three monitors simultaneously.
I need lots of fast, cheap, internal storage.

I realise that's a lot of "I need, I need..." But as far as my work is concerned, it really is all about me. I know more about what I need to do my job than Apple do. Apple could of course ask me...

And if anyone suggests that you can do all your expansion externally these days - even if all these devices were available as external Thunderbolt devices, which they're not - a smaller computer with half a dozen extra boxes and their power supplies all hanging off the Thunderbolt bus is in no way a more convenient or elegant solution than housing them inside the computer. My studio is enough of a tangled mess already thank you very much.


I've been an Mac owner and user since the late eighties. I still have the IIcx that I spent my life savings on in 1988 in the loft. If this European ban does turn out to be a subtle excuse for cancelling the Mac Pro line later on, then it's the end of a long happy road for me and Apple. I'm not confident that I can reliably do everything I do now on a Windows system. Plus I detest Windows. I only use Windows if someone holds a metaphorical gun to my head. I'd basically be sitting there in my studio all day, mixing with one hand and metaphorically blowing my own brains out with the other.

I hope Apple remember that it was the loyalty of professional creative arts users kept them in business thru all those difficult years. Some loyalty in return would be nice. After all, it's not as if they sell Mac Pros at a loss...

 

[e-coli]

Apple killed off half their pro market anyways when they released Final Cut X. It's garbage that post houses avoid like the plague.