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Apple to Make More Foldable iPhones Than Expected [Updated]
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If you sell it to me as a phone that folds, I'm not buying.
If you sell it to me as a tablet that fully supports wireless calling, but also can fit in my pocket, I might be interested depending on price. If it costs much more than my current daily phone and tablet carries, probably not.
If they enabled wireless calling on the cellular iPad Mini, they'd probably be almost there on the interface.
If you sell it to me as a tablet that fully supports wireless calling, but also can fit in my pocket, I might be interested depending on price. If it costs much more than my current daily phone and tablet carries, probably not.
If they enabled wireless calling on the cellular iPad Mini, they'd probably be almost there on the interface.
That's possible. However don't forget this is an iPhone we're talking about. It won't be sold at $2000. It will be sold at $55/months for 36 months. Also the Air took away features, charged more money, and gave only thinness in return. With this folding device, you'd legitimately be getting two devices in one (assuming it runs essentially iPadOS in open mode). I also have a feeling they will market it far more aggressively than the Air.
Today i took a look at some Foldables in an electronics store.
The display is soft, wobbly trash on every device. The closing and opening mechanism isn't snappy, the displays are not scratch proof in any way.
🤮
I hope Apple doesn't follow this crappy way.
The display is soft, wobbly trash on every device. The closing and opening mechanism isn't snappy, the displays are not scratch proof in any way.
🤮
I hope Apple doesn't follow this crappy way.
Exactly. The new iPad OS has seen my usage of my Pro go up a huge amount, its actually a useful device.
If the folding iPhone has the same window management and support for the pencil its a buy for me.
An iPad mini with decent screen specs would be amazing on its own but intake your point.
Stylus support would be good but none of the current foldable devices have been able to achieve that.
Lastly, endurance and robustness need to be very strong. Lots of horror stories from the Android camp about the inner screen.
Apple’s contract with Samsung Display always contains specifications and technologies specific for Apple products, and likely has an NDA that forbids Samsung Display (SDI) from sharing that with any other company including Samsung Electronics MX division which makes smartphones, tablets and wearables.
Apple also buys materials and display products in quantities far different or higher than what Samsung itself is buying so Apple has a lot of control and clout to what Samsung Display, as a manufacturing resource, is going to make and produce for Apple. To continue to secure Apple as a “Major customer” as they refer to Apple in their earnings report, SDI must maintain patent use, confidentiality, and technology exclusivity. While Samsung Display may make the underlying technology, the enhancements and technical improvements that Apple has created makes the display a custom product for Apple’s use only.
That’s perfectly ok, Apple is going to price the iFold to cover bill of material costs, production costs, marketing and gross margins costs, plus whatever R&D costs they want to assign to it. Plus they will gauge the Apple Foldables market and the potential ultra-premium pricing vs competitors.
As you suggest, that price could be substantial, as would anything with new form factor and new technology, plus increased size and parts count, plus newness and “novelty”, plus relatively small production.
If the cost is more than you would pay, as with all products, you will vote with your wallet, again, completely understandable. You would join the 9/10 to 19/20 who won’t buy this.
Correction: How innovative Apple’s take on a Foldable phone can be and is. If Apple sorts out and corrects the areas of concern that people “have had” with foldable to this point, they will get people’s attention. Then use cases, and finally price will make people consider the product. Finally, the individuals’ economic situation bd demand or desire will demonstrate whether they buy or not.
If Apple Foldables sells even 5% of their current sales, rumored to be around 245M total for CY25, that would be 12.2M units, higher than current expectations. 7-8M is roughly where the Mini and Plus models were when Apple was selling 225M, roughly ~3.5%, and they were discontinued.
Apple and Android sales are not directly comparable because of Apple iOS, direct support for 7+ years, integrated ecosystem, and general loyalty of Apple users, plus having a larger cohort of more upscale buyers.
While the iPhone lineup is responsible for 50% of Apple’s revenues, the other 26% comes from Services and 24% from Macs 8.1%, iPads 6.7%, and Wearables 8.6%. ALL of these contribute revenue, and all have a bearing on creating AAPL shareholder value to the point where Apple’s market cap exceeds $4 trillion.
Many investors are highly aware that Services has been growing at a >13% annual clip and that Services comes with a 75% margin, more than double hardware’s (and iPhone’s$) 36.8% margin.
It’s simplistic to only believe iPhones are the driver of AAPL market cap.
While your comment is well intentioned and aimed primarily at Apple, IMO it’s off the mark. DIY repairability may be low, but it is still repairable as are most iPhones. The generally higher reliability and longevity of iPhones IMO offset the higher costs of repair, and certainly you can get some lower cost parts and repair services if you want them.
The much much larger problem from Anne cost and point is the fact that Android outsells Apple 8:1 or 4:1, and the VAST majority (90-92%) of android sales are cheaper mid to low (<$200) models with limited 2-3yr support, non-existent resale value, and being cheap, owners have a throwaway mindset with them, so tons end up being produced and ending up as ewaste, landfill, or sitting in drawers. Regardless of how “repairable” those Android phones might be, THEY end up being 3-4x or more the problems vs Apple iPhones.
Yes, it’s ok to demand Apple do better (seeing as they seem to be the only phone maker who seems to care about environmental impacts of smartphones), but they are not the only problem.
IMO, you have it wrong - Samsung has the display tech and production experience for Foldables displays, but it’s taken them 7 generations of limited size production and cost containment by Samsung Electronics to get there. Apple has patents on display tech and display and hinge solutions different from Samsung’s tech. Apple has been working with and demanding more from Samsung’s Foldables display tech, asking or forcing Samsung to implement Apple’s solutions and or proprietary technology into displays Apple wants to use. Together, Samsung has finally been able to make a display that incorporates Apple’s design decision and works TO APPLE’s SATISFACTION as production ready, otherwise in quality and in Quantity. Given that Foldables displays for Samsung are sold in ~6-8M quantity (total finished units), asking for 10M plus at yields Apple will demand is a tall order, even for Samsung, so Samsung HAS TO get production, quality, and yield right if it’s going to satisfy and keep Apple as its biggest revenue customer.
As for Foldable’s customers, they can only buy what the manufacturer makes and offers. Samsung had basically the same design feom Foldable 4 through 6, and was roundly criticized for that, and since the A droid Foldable market is limited and small, Samsung’s fold sales declined while other Chinese OEM’s expanded some, particularly in China.
The Fold 7 was an innovation in thinness and improved display, sales are better but we’ll have to see if the Android Foldables market expands much more. The customer doesn’t hold back innovation. The customer decides if the innovation is worth it to buy, remember price has everything to do with eventual sales. If the maker can’t keep price “affordable” to their customer base, innovation no matter how great, won’t get sold or adopted.
Apple’s customers have been waiting for an Apple Foldable with iOS software, Apple’s build quality and branding, and they are more economically tolerant and able to afford high end products, so they have been waiting for an Apple version, few buying an Android model. If you want to define that as destroying innovation, that’s on you. Apple waited till the problems of foldables were solved to their satisfaction using some tech that apple has developed, not relying solely on others. And now Apple feels they (and the market) is ready for an Apple Foldable.
Again, ok to decline, the IFold is meant maybe for 1 of 20 or 1/25 sales to be considered successful in its first iteration, price being a big obstacle.
As for sales expectations, only Apple can tell us what they consider acceptable.
A hole punch describes a specific tool, not the end result of what the tool creates. A punch hole describes the shape and end result aperture whether it be in paper, metal, or a display layer. Some might suggest hole camera but sounds like “whole” could be confusing.
No, incorrect, Apple has long known the regular, Pro & Pro Max have very high sales volumes in mid to high tens of millions, while other models sell in much less volume. The market dictates the sales and Apple has continued to search for another that will exceed a 10-15M sales volume. Apple simply wants another model that will sell in volumes and margins that make sense from production and cost to make it worthwhile. The 16e sells well enough but likely doesn’t make much revenue for Apple. The Air probably make similar revenue but half the sales. If the iFold sold as many as the Air and makes twice the revenue due to much higher price, would you deem that a success? Depends on expectations and goals.
If the Display works as hoped, probably fine for 2 generations because both Apple and Samsung will learn a lot from the practical production and after sales experience. It would take 2-3 years to implement changes and improvements and testing anyway.
Um, the whole gist of the article is Apple and Samsung working together to create a creaseless display that satisfies Apple’s criteria for use, production, and sale to Apple’s notoriously picky users. If Apple is successful, the market is likely a 50% increase in total Foldables market sales over the next 2-3 sales generations.