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Small White Car said:
But AT&T is probably going to charge you $30 to tether.

So what's the difference between paying AT&T $30 to tether or paying Verizon $30 for a tablet plan?

Again, you are dreaming if you think that Verizon Wireless plan will be $30 for the data without voice. It WILL be $59.99, just like their datacards.

If this tablet will be data only and no voice option there WILL NOT be a $30 option. The $30 price for data is only when there is a voice plan as well.
 
I call shenanigans. I can however see them making
a tablet that works on wifi and 3g and would allow providers
to subsidize it for their network. I voted negative mostly
because I went to AT&T for the iPhone and would do this sub'd
with then. AT&T has been good to me and i
would NOT get a 2nd contract with a 2nd carrier.

Make it sub'd with AT&T with a discount for existing iPhone
users and I am 100% on board
 
But AT&T is probably going to charge you $30 to tether.

So what's the difference between paying AT&T $30 to tether or paying Verizon $30 for a tablet plan?

i can tether my PC notebook, my MBP and my tablet (if there is ever one). since i will have thethering for my notebook anyway i get 3g on the tablet essentially for free.

a lot of people get their tethering paid by their employer so to them it's free as well.

therefore Verizon would be $59 (or whatever the price is) and using your current tethering plan would be free.;)
 
You make it sound like the rest of the market is on the verge of bankrupcy.

I'm sorry you read that into my comment. Although some of them are not doing well at all, and are losing money because of the down economy, I was speaking in the past tense of a litany of brands that chased a big market with thin margins.

When tough times happen, and they do happen, the company lacks enough margin fat to weather the storm. It's wiser in the long-term to develop or choose markets in which you have an advantage so that you have room to breathe when belt-tightening is required.

The planet is swamped with companies that are doing splendidly without the obscene profit margins that Apple are gorging on.

In truth the "world is swamped" with companies making far better profits in their chosen markets than Apple ever has. Most companies outside of the electronics industry shoot for 33% gross margins.

However, in the electronic communications hardware market only one company in the world is doing better with thinner margins (Nokia). In the desktop/laptop market, only four other companies outsells Apple, and some of them are not doing so well at all due to their thin margins.

I'll rephrase one of my earlier comments: Any company that is knee-deep in a market where they barely make a profit, is in danger, because they haven't the cash, management, and research resources to build a market on a higher margin ground.

Someone should write a book on Apple's peculiar kind of supergreed, the audacity of it is nothing short of spectacular, if vomit inducing.

If you feel some opinion you hold in your mind is "vomit inducing", you really need to get some therapy. You are self-generating emotions.

Apple's profits are only out of line within their competitive markets. They are not out of line in general manufacturing of durable goods.

Let me give you a simple example. I represent a company that markets ergonomic products. They do not actually manufacture the products, just as Apple does not manufacture their products. A plastic pencil drawer, exactly the same drawer other companies market the same way, has a list price of $128. The dealer that buys that drawer at their net price pays $51.20, however I know that through different channels that same drawer can be resold at a profit for $22. This means the factory that made it put it into the market channel for even less that $22 (and still made a profit). The manufacturer, probably has about $5 of materials and labor invested.

Any of the profits percents in my real-life example are in excess of any Apple enjoys and it's only because it's not part of the electronic consumer market. If you buy a sofa, or a tomato, you will pay more of a markup than what you find "vomit inducing" if it's a computer from Apple.

I'm fine with capitalism and I think premium products warrant a higher pricetag, but Apple doesn't MAKE premium products. They sell the same Chinese garbage as everyone else (and as you can see below, I bought a LOT of that garbage before I decided to stop feeding the scam machine). They are the Faux News Channel.

From the tone of your comments I think you have a problem and it's not with Apple. While Apple's hardware is made from "the same Chinese garbage as everyone else", you have to admit that is also true of Asian-made cars... both the luxury models and the economy models. They often come out of the same door.

What separates one from the other in price is in the perception of the buyer, and that is put there by marketing. There are different costs in the different models, but not enough difference to warrant the price difference to the end user. The whole distribution channel makes bigger margins with a luxury car because they know the market will pay the price.

With Apple, the perception in the buyer's mind is that they will get a superior user experience due to the software Apple adds to the "the same Chinese garbage as everyone else". If Apple can make that perception a reality, then they win the consumer's money...at the margin Apple determines is satisfying to all concerned.
 
I don't understand why this gets a negative rating except to note how fickle some of the forum users are.

I don't understand why folks are always looking for everyone on this site to be of exactly the same mindset. The score is never zero which every side is smaller. There are always going to be folks with different viewpoint than yours that are looking at some aspect of the story that they don't like.

Is MR suppose to be the epitome of the Apple 1984 commercial? The part before the woman shows up.


If the tablet is in some way subsidize by Verizon for use on their network, that in no way implies that the user can't also purchase it with out the Verizon subsidy (for a premium) and use it on someone else cellular network when those plans and add-in cards become available.

Pragmatically yes it could end up that way (locked on Verizon only for a while). Depends upon how Apple does or does not restrict sales. Ironically it is only verizon that has made noises about having an "open" network on the newer bandwidths they picked up.

What is the likelihood that this is an "add-in" card tablet? Just like the batteries are sealed, would bet small sum that the data card is sealed in this device also. Just look at Apple's recent track record. It could be an add-in network card on the tablet. More likely though, it is not.
 
...There are companies that play loose with ethics in their markets, however I don't see Apple as one of those companies.

Really? I like Apple, but they're hardly some paradigm of ethics.

I think it was unethical to misrepresent Steve Job's health this year. The announcement of that leak of his liver transplant came at midnight on Saturday morning following another successful Apple iPhone launch, as thousands of people spent their Friday waiting in line for the Precious. Apple stock was conveniently frozen until Monday morning. :rolleyes:

I think the exploding battery stories could be borderline teetering on some unethical matters.

Google's CEO remaining on the Apple Board brings conflict of interest questions into play - not to mention why they keep the bloated bloviating boob, Al Gore in the decision-making processes at HQs.

I could list a few more questionable decisions made throughout the years, and I'll wager there are more than two disgruntled customers who can prove Apple didn't really do the right thing by them when they should have.

Look, nobody's perfect, but to make Apple out to be stainless is ... well .. unethical. :D
 
You guys just aren't seeing the vision! This is going to be a large iPod Touch which would both be much nicer for using at home as well as a BOOK READER. They are going to compete with the Kindle with this, perhaps transform the textbook industry. (Wouldn't THAT be great!) No more clunky expensive textbooks, just a simple device that lets you combine the textbook AND web research. For students this would be the BOMB. And for industry, medical, this could also be a huge thing. Me, I'd love it to be great for books/pdfs and make a much nicer web experience at home instead of the little small Touch.

So, like the Kindle, it will be $299 and have lifetime free network access?

You make it sound like the rest of the market is on the verge of bankrupcy. The planet is swamped with companies that are doing splendidly without the obscene profit margins that Apple are gorging on.

Only because they aren't able to. If they could, they would.
 
It's fine to have a subsidized tablet... as long as it's optional.

I'd guess a tablet with a two-year data plan will be spectacularly unpopular unless the monthly fee is a lot less than Verizon (or any other cell company) would go for.

A 9-10" tablet is much less of a portable take-it-anywhere, use-it-anywhere type of device than a smart phone. You won't have it in your pocket. If you do have it with you, you won't pull it out of its case to do a quick internet search -- that's what your iPhone is for.

Nah, a tablet like this is an around-the-house/office/friend's house/etc. internet device. Most will be able to use regular wireless with no problem.

A subsidized tablet is fine as an option -- there will be some people that want it and have the $$$ to pay for it -- but it should not be the primary way a tablet would be sold.
 
Not going to happen

The source of this information is highly suspect at best. The Street is dominated by Apple haters and stock manipulators.

This is tied to rumors that the Apple tablet will sport a 10" display. Exactly how are you supposed to hold a device with that size screen? Cradled on an arm? That's not very flexible. On my lap? If I'm going to do that I'll take a notebook with a keyboard instead. How about held by one edge like a Kindle? That would mean putting a wide bezel around the screen so there'd be a place to hold it, thus making it bigger, heavier and uglier. Umm, no.

If there's going to be a super-sized iPod Touch I think it's still going to be narrow enough to fit into one hand so it can be used standing up. That means the entire unit must be less than 4" wide in order to fit most hands. Allowing for the bezel on the current Touch and assuming a 16:9 ratio display yields a diagonal screen size of approximately 7.5". Screen resolution would be roughly 450x800 allowing a much richer environment for text and video than the 320x480 offered by the current devices.

I think the final nail in the coffin for 10" screen people is the fact that my device would fit into clutch purses and back pockets, something the Kindle doesn't.

According to the conference call yesterday, Apple is focusing their cell carrier efforts on the iPhone. Getting a deal in China must be at or near the top of the list, messing up their profitable relationship with AT&T isn't.

Any tablet, even the relatively small one I envision, is too big to be used as a phone without a separate headset so I don't think the first generation tablet will have anything but WiFi. In typical Apple style I see phone capabilities coming in future years.
 
Makes no sense to me...why would Apple release a tablet/netbook that is tied to a phone company? Seriously.

Why not? Apple already makes a version of the iTouch that is tied to a phone company. They call it an iPhone. So, they do the same with the iTablet. No biggie.

I (and several friends/peers) have netbooks and love them for what they are...lightweight (both physically and performance) and cheap laptops that can surf the web or do lightweight non-web computing. I don't see why I would want to tie it into some 2year plan at a phone company!...unless I really really wanted speeds at 56k dial-up performance.

Pray tell, and how do your friends surf the web without a DSL provider? If they use wifi, then why not an iTouch or an iTablet with wifi and do the same?

Who'd to know what kind of plan Verizon may come up with. They do not need to follow the ATT model.

BTW, everything you described your friends doing with a netbook can be done with an iTouch...and for less cost, weight and size as well.
 
you have to admit that is also true of Asian-made cars... both the luxury models and the economy models. They often come out of the same door.

Are there no Chinese cars luxury cars coming to the US.... yet. (GM probably will in a few though.)


Honda has made much of their economy models here in the US for a long time. The Acura is stuff is in Japan but not the same factories that isn't also doing same cars for the Japanese market (which has a different split between luxury/economy).

Similar Toyota, split region production.

Maybe some of the Korea cars same factory in Korea, but they haven't been at volumes to produce here in the US for very long.

This is also almost comical when compared to the different decal K-cars that Chrysler shipped to get out of. Or the Hummers with Suburban chasises that GM shipped. Or the Cadillac Cimarron ( warmed over GM mainstream car). Like cheesy, same stuff different decals cars didn't come out of the US Big 3 factories too.



The whole distribution channel makes bigger margins with a luxury car because they know the market will pay the price.

Not necessarily. To crave out a niche as new player Lexus (and I think Hyundai ) have taken lower margins to establish themselves firmly in the market. Then use the higher , lower run rate cars to try out new concepts that move to the rest of the line.



With Apple, the perception in the buyer's mind is that they will get a superior user experience due to the software Apple adds to the "the same Chinese garbage as everyone else". If Apple can make that perception a reality, then they win the consumer's money...at the margin Apple determines is satisfying to all concerned.

There can be varying quality coming out of Chinese factories. If pay the contractor slightly more can get better set of devices coming out. Likewise if send the assembler crappy parts it isn't going to get much better if they have a very high quality assembler processes.

That said Apple has been cutting covers. If you let the Chinese contractors slip up many will.

A portion though is Apple's designs too. Some of them are too anorexic and/or glitzy where style gets in the way of having prudent constraints on power/temperature/effectiveness.
 
Really? I like Apple, but they're hardly some paradigm of ethics.

I really don't disagree with what you say, however the context in which I wrote was to defend the idea that Apple was not ethical because they have better margins than most companies in their markets.

Your examples fall generally in the area of questionable decisions, not outright attempts to garner market share at the expense of competition, which seems to me to be where ethics comes into play.

For example, when a major market player announces new pending products that they are not developng, so as to drive down the value of a small development company, and then buy up the company they ruined. This is unethical.

When a major market player threatens to decertify an OEM if they also sell computers with competitor's OS. That is ethically wrong.

When a major market leader gives away software that does the same function as a competitor so as to drive them from the market. That is what I lable unethical.

It's much of the kind of tactics used by the old steel and oil barons to ruin competitors that I find unethical.
 
Doesn't VZ already have a deal with HP's netbook? I'm wondering if there's enough room for all these netbooks/MacTablet? VZ charges $39.99 a month for their wireless netbook service....:eek::eek::eek:

I would gladly PAY $40/month for wireless broadband if I could get the small subsidized price for a netbook or Apple Tablet of some type. If the Apple is $599 with a 2/yr. contract and depending on the specifications and implementations it wouldbe #1 on my list for things to buy as I would have a REAL need for this system and roving broadband. Chances are the Apple tablet will have LTE built-in so it will at least be forward compatible - and that is good thing.

D
 
AT&T iPhone + Wi-Fi Only iPod Touch

Verizon Tablet + Wi-Fi Only Tablet ??

As long as they do it this way, I'm happy.

Agreed. No way in hell am I going to have yet another monthly fee with a contract. I don't much care for Verizon as it is (I have a BB through them now).
 
... That means the entire unit must be less than 4" wide in order to fit most hands. Allowing for the bezel on the current Touch and assuming a 16:9 ratio display yields a diagonal screen size of approximately 7.5".
...
I think the final nail in the coffin for 10" screen people is the fact that my device would fit into clutch purses and back pockets,

Ok when you sit down with the 7.5" screen in your back pocket .... what keeps the screen from cracking. Or this is the never sit down mobile device?



Any tablet, even the relatively small one I envision, is too big to be used as a phone without a separate headset so I don't think the first generation tablet will have anything but WiFi. In typical Apple style I see phone capabilities coming in future years.

You're tying voice traffic together with data traffic. There is a very long list of products that are already on the market that don't do that (scroll back and see the mentions to gobi enabled devices mentioned eariler). The WiFi is far from having the broadest coverage of the wireless data network available. Faster, but not broadest.

Secondly, the presumption is that this is iPhone OS device. Doesn't have to be. Could be a Mac OS X one. (and tablet is not quite assured. Millions of folks manage to carry around laptops in something other than their back pocket all the time. )

If add Touch or iPhone form factor constraints back into what Apple is to deliver.

a. should not be surprised when it only has similar capabilities.
b. that it shrinks to be about as small.


In order not to step on the ATT contract this will not be a "phone" device. Unless the contract is silly it probably restricts the "phone" to be what ATT has rights to (or right of first refusal to) . This will be something substantively different most likely.

10" can just as a bezel and just add a keyboard and make it clamshell. So yeah that is a bit big. However, the closer you get to 3" the closer it is to being overlap but not big enough to get over the pain ( e.g., surfing website built for "normal" sized screens. ) or providing big enough space to have more normal sized keys.
 
I normally would be excited about this but.....I just can't.

I can't help but wonder how many chinese workers were tortured or killed to get this device to market. :(

No joke! Sad - maybe this will open the eyes of Apple and let them dip into those margins and have the products built someplace that treats their employees with the respect and moral responsibility they deserve. Also - Apple is at fault for this INDIRECTLY by the manor of which they operate. I hope Apple will FORCE the companies they deal with to treat those who build these money-making Apple products with the moral dignity and respect they deserve.

I lay some blame on Apple for this as they surely know how these companies treat those who work for them. This is not the first time things like this have been mentioned. This is WRONG and I will reconsider buying products from Apple or any other company that allows their subcontractors to treat its employees so poorly - to the point that several committed suicide or possibly worse!

Apple - I implore you to wake-up and use your clout to make things better for the workers in China. You could do wonders for the entire country little by little by paying slightly more, losing a bit of margin but treating those who allow Steve Job's to buy an historical home just to raise it and build a new multi-million dollar house! These products are made on the backs of low paid yet skilled laborers.

I, for one - would pay more for a product IF the employer(s) treated their employees in a manor which anyone here would expect to be treated - and generally ARE treated in the United States and many countries in the E.U.

D
 
Since the tablet will most likely run iPhone OS, I wonder what Apple has or will bake into the OS by the time this comes out.

If we got multi-tasking for the tablet and iPhone, what would you guys think of a concept like my mock-up here?

Double finger swipe left or right at any time zooms out to cover flow of all the running applications for you to choose which app to go to, with the home screen being the default center option. To quit an app you hit the home button when you are in it like currently.
 

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Not the current Verizon

Wow, these Apple/Verizon rumors are never ending. A CDMA/EV-DO device would limit global sales for Apple, it's just not going to happen.

I totally agree. Verizon has yet to come out with their 4G GSM. That is their future but by October? Apple wants to sell their products to a wide audience. The narrow US market is not enough. With the world GSM, any new wireless device will be GSM. I know we are all not totally happy with AT&T but Verizon is not for Apple today. Perhaps in the future when they adopt GSM. :apple:
 
... a slot like for an Express Card which accepts data interface cards from all the wireless companies, which hooks to the internal antennas so the card doesn't stick out.

Apple nuked Express Card slots from 13" and 15" Mac Book Pros. (OK the 13" never had it). How in the world is an even smaller tablet going to have more internal volume than those two?

Given Apple's established design constraints (e.g., as thin as possible) and trends (sealed self contained devices ) that is a HUGE leap to think there are going to be expansion slots on a tablet.

Be happy if even get even a mini-display port and a normal USB port on the thing if it is iPhone OS based. Mac OS X based it those are the minimalistic ports will likely get.
 
I too think it will use iPhone OS (for reasons discussed before), but the 10" display size being rumored seems to be a bit on the large side for iPhone OS.

I'm sure Apple will have the iPhone OS all nice and ready for the launch if that is what they plan on doing. I wouldn't be surprised if they already have resolution independence or an easy res adaptor for devs already in place or in the works. :)
 
Are there no Chinese cars luxury cars coming to the US.... yet. (GM probably will in a few though.)

Thank you for your comments.

In my quote I did not say "Chinese cars", I said "Asian cars" for that very reason. I did have the Lexus/Hyundai example in mind when I wrote. While Hyundai may have used lower margins, as you suggest, to gather market share, the better margins are always on the higher-end and luxury models.

In fact, over-reliance on higher-end models with good margins and poor gas economy, is a prime reason for the Big three American auto industry's current struggle. When the market disappeared for Luxury trucks, SUVs and other gas hogs, the companies didn't have any fuel-efficient models for the customers to choose from.

It's interesting to compare Apple during this economic downturn. Since they did have enough margins to play with, they were able to thin them a bit and still keep the overall good enough to have a banner year so far, in terms of overall sales and profits.

Notably, Apple cut $100 out of their 3G iPhone, making it the least expensive subsidized 8Mb smart phone on the market. And they dropped the price on various laptops by hundreds of dollars to stay competitive with the rest of the industry's move toward lesser featured portable computers.

There can be varying quality coming out of Chinese factories. If pay the contractor slightly more can get better set of devices coming out. Likewise if send the assembler crappy parts it isn't going to get much better if they have a very high quality assembler processes.

That said Apple has been cutting covers. If you let the Chinese contractors slip up many will.

I totally agree. Several companies I represent use Asian manufacturers and the best companies have their own on-site quality control. One cannot fully trust an Asian company to quality-check itself.

A portion though is Apple's designs too. Some of them are too anorexic and/or glitzy where style gets in the way of having prudent constraints on power/temperature/effectiveness.

Having been a design engineer, I know of the struggle between engineering and marketing. If engineers had their way, portable devices would all be bigger and heavier. So, it's often a trade-off between what both camps want, and still bigger and heavier than the customer dreams of.

Overall, it seems if anything Apple only leans slightly in the direction you suggest. If they go too far in that direction they will lose customer confidence in the perceived or actual better quality.

I am not, however, suggesting that Apple makes a better quality product than H.P. for example. In fact, I really don't think H.P.'s products are anything less then stellar. What Apple has done, and that is primarily due to their OS, is keep their products out of the commodity arena, while H.P.'s not been so fortunate. Once a manufacture's goods are thought of as part of a commodity market, then the brand name loses a lot of influence power to sway the final buying decision. Even IBM was not able to avoid being swept into that category toward the end of their presence in the PC market.
 
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