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I'm surprised how many of you would rather just get refurbished devices rather than have your own ones fixed.

Personally I would prefer my own computer / phone / iPod to be repaired instead. I bought it brand new, it belongs to me, I have a connection to my devices. Maybe it's just my crazy-artist side but I apply a certain amount of emotion to products that enrich my life and I care about them, not as much as people or animals but theres some care there and I would rather my little technological buddy was repaired rather than replaced.

If anyone is having difficulty understand this, imagine you had a car and you went on an awesome road trip and then you got a flat tire one day. Would you want to just have an identical version of that car replace yours? The one you created that awesome road trip of memories with? - That is my perspective on it. Now I'm not asking you if you agree with my view, I'm just explaining what I mean.
 
Well we can all rest assured they will have another billion to put away somewhere in an account.

This is almost definitely negatively impact customers in wait times and quality as repairs are more likely to break again than a new device is. Ugh.
 
I'm surprised how many of you would rather just get refurbished devices rather than have your own ones fixed.

Personally I would prefer my own computer / phone / iPod to be repaired instead. I bought it brand new, it belongs to me, I have a connection to my devices. Maybe it's just my crazy-artist side but I apply a certain amount of emotion to products that enrich my life and I care about them, not as much as people or animals but theres some care there and I would rather my little technological buddy was repaired rather than replaced.

If anyone is having difficulty understand this, imagine you had a car and you went on an awesome road trip and then you got a flat tire one day. Would you want to just have an identical version of that car replace yours? The one you created that awesome road trip of memories with? - That is my perspective on it. Now I'm not asking you if you agree with my view, I'm just explaining what I mean.

Right. A car still under warranty with a flat tire is the same as a cell phone.

In theory it's not a horrible idea, I'm just leery of a phone that has a glued on screen being fixed properly with a bunch of other stuff waiting to be done and customers in a hurry.
 
Somehow I doubt there were that many folks at the meeting so this "active employee" might not be for long.

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which currently attaches to individual devices, requiring customers to buy a new AppleCare plan for each computer and iOS device they purchase -- into a subscription service that will attach to a particular customer instead of a product.

Something tells me that it's not exactly as it sounds. Cause doing it by person not device could run afoul of various state laws. Maybe if they split out the phone support side of it. That could easily be by user since many phone questions are likely more usage questions than actual hardware. Seems like in most cases of actual hardware they are calling to find out if the warranty covers having dropped it in the toliet or AC runs a diagnostic scan, gets back that something is off with the battery or the wifi and sets up an appointment in the store.

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Apple... Ever heard the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? (No pun intended.)

You have a great system in place. Don't change it.

That's exactly what they are doing. IF you battery is broken by your wifi, hard drive, speakers etc ain't, why are they 'fixing them' via giving you a whole replacement phone. Save that for someone that really needs it, like my boss who dropped his in a bucket of water.

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It might not even affect people in the way that they think.

This repair isn't new. I've had several of them done already. joys of being the tech person for the office. Three battery replacements (all consumed so I had to pay but it was like $80 a piece so no biggie), two speaker replacements, one camera and a home button.

in and out in 30-45 minutes. in fact only one of them was even close to 45 minutes cause the tech was in the middle of another repair.

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No, they repair and then they become refurbished phones. So where does this $1bn saving come from exactly? Increased profit from new price structure?

After taking them apart, testing every piece, logging results etc. That analysis time costs money. Now they will just be testing the single part that was sent back. not everything.

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You can't however give someone's scratched device as a replacement for someone else.

THey don't. Several states and countries have laws that anything that touches human flesh can't be reused, so every phone etc gets a new enclosure. And a new battery.

That's whether it was a return to be QA tested a whole unit and sold as a refurb or a return that is tested at the part level and passing parts go to the line to be reconditioned into service parts.

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Maybe this means that product design will evolve away from heavy, heavy (don't open it yourself) lockdown and toward more serviceable tech (maybe even more self-servicable tech)?

Don't count on it.

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They have a great system in place to YOU. How do you know the current system is not creating problems within the company in terms of available stock?

I suspect that part of the change, as well as new procedures adopted from what they require in China to spot fake phones, are also in part due to resellers.

One trick resellers could be trying is bringing in trade in phones to be swapped, maybe even doing trade ins claiming to be authorized to do 'warranty service'. They might be going in and cutting antenna cables or speaker cables etc to try to force a swap. now if the speaker doesn't work, you only get the speaker replaced. Shuts that stunt of getting a swap down so the swaps go to folks that really need one.

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Genius Bars are already busy beyond capacity in many many many locations. Adding one more thing for them to do in repairing your device while you wait will definitely not help things in that regard.

having been through this several times, no it doesn't. Cause the person who talk to is rarely to never the person that actually does the repair. most stores it seems have at least one Mac level person in the back doing 'while you wait' mac and iphone repairs. probably also doing those data transfers as well. The person you speak to does the testing, paperwork, takes it to the back and moves on to the next person. Nurse before the doctor if you will. or at least that is how it has been at the 3 stores I've been at over the past several weeks.

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Phones take minutes to assemble. None of these parts needs much to pop them into place once the phone is open. But, aren't they glued together or otherwise not meant to be opened up?


ipads and ipods but not phones. they are screwed in place. On a 4 or 4s you unscrew and the back slides off. the iphone 5 like the 3g and 3gs, the front comes off but you need a suction tool to pop it.
 
Doesn't sound that great for those of us over 2 hours from the nearest Apple store. I would have to drive 2+ hours then either wait for the repair or leave it and make another round trip.
 
ONE POINT NOBODY BROUGHT UP...WHAT ABOUT RESALE OF MACS WHEN APPLECARE IS NOT TIED TO THE MACHINE?!

honey badger (as in Apple dont give a sheet)

not about reselling your computer, phone etc. THey aren't required to make it easier or more profitable for you to do it so they dont. anymore than they worry about an update making it impossible to jailbreak etc.

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The worst thing ever is to send things to warranty and have some "genius" fix them.

Almost all brands hire the same company in Portugal to make repairs. The only I thing I can say is that your device will be in worse shape after you send it in for repairs.

Almost all brands != Apple doing it. In fact for mobile devices mail in service is more often than not them sending you a replacement with a hold on a credit card that is removed in total when you ship the 'broken one' back to them within like 10 business days.

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Not happy with this, especially if the policy makes its way to Apple computers.

pretty sure the 'repair the broken bits' policy already exists for computers. that's where this idea likely came from

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What the heck? This is a stupid move by Apple. I don't want those people from the store opening or touching the inside of my iPhone/iPads. The environment is full of dust and it would get inside screens.

THey aren't doing it right on the sales floor. They do it in the back in a proper clean room with electrostatic safety conditions etc.

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2) If I want a new device because mine is defective I want a new device whether or not apple want to repair it, this is the part apple currently does so well, please it should be always so on a premium product line.

You won't get that. Because you signed an agreement via buying the device that lets them repair what is broken. So if they say it's just the speaker and you scream you want a full phone replacement be prepared to have a manager tell you that you can replace it by going and buying a new retail one. Cause Apple has dropped basically all of the 'one time exception' stuff. And you won't really have grounds to yell "I'm going to sue" etc cause that just makes them tell you to leave until your law suit is over and their lawyers tell them what to do.

A lot of folks will scream and yell that they won't buy Apple stuff anymore but I doubt Apple really cares. Go buy something else.
 
Apple is transforming itself into a company that, instead of putting customer experience first as they did, aims to maximize profit.

One of the reasons I love Apple so much is that they swap out the phone with minimal fuss. This is also the reason why I recommend iPhone and iPad to my friends. Sadly, this will soon change if this is real.
 
I wonder how much the care plan will be if it does go subscription based. I could handle $9.99 a month to take care of my iPhone and MacBook Pro forever.

It won't be for forever. At most you'd get until the law lets them obsolete the item. So 5 years tops except in a few places like Cali where by law it has to be 7 years.

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Sorry, I call BS. While I agree that there are people who abuse the warranty, I feel like if I pay $100 for an extended warranty that provides me two replacements in the two year for damage at $50 each, Apple should honor that.

Who says they won't honor it. Hell we don't really know that this meeting even took place. It's some alleged insider telling us it happened and what was said. Who says that person even got the details right.

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Probably has something to do with China claiming they get repair service while the rest of the world gets swap service. That or folks who swap the glass on counterfeit devices and get them exchanged for genuine.

You swap the glass and get caught (and they seem to be checking really close now), you get 'thank you but your service is voided due to tampering, don't bother trying another store cause the serial is flagged. Next'
 
having been through this several times, no it doesn't. Cause the person who talk to is rarely to never the person that actually does the repair. most stores it seems have at least one Mac level person in the back doing 'while you wait' mac and iphone repairs. probably also doing those data transfers as well. The person you speak to does the testing, paperwork, takes it to the back and moves on to the next person. Nurse before the doctor if you will. or at least that is how it has been at the 3 stores I've been at over the past several weeks.

I've been through this many many many times over the past 10+ years. I also worked at an Apple Specialist that tried ridiculously hard to be like Apple and feigned superiority over their processes where I was one of a few that were a Genius, Creative, Service Technician and more all rolled into one. Trust me, bringing this up doesn't help your case.

The Geniuses are so busy out front because they don't have the space to do all these repairs in back in a timely manner. Like you said, only a couple people at most are back there at a time. That's all they can fit. And each can only be working on one device at a time. But how many people get serviced up front? Sometimes upwards of 3 customers per 1 Genius. The swapping of devices instead of repairs helps facilitate this. Creating more space in back would require some renovations in some stores allowing for less space for other things like the all-important inventory. Even if you decided that was worth while, again you're having to hire and train more people to handle the servicing. And those positions pay more than the Geniuses up front.

No two ways about it, this kind of change is not cheap nor quick and would take quite a while for them to really realize any measurable savings, if there are any savings to be had. And even at that like I mentioned before there are other factors that aren't measurable that I sure hope this new VP lady is seriously considering and losing sleep over.
 
Hate to say it but this sounds like a pure money-making move, and not something intended to actually serve the customer.

Reduce repair costs, increase customer payouts with a perpetual subscription to extended warranties...

You're looking at a significant bump in revenue, while people now have to sit around waiting for their phones to be fixed.

Sounds like a total bean-counter move.

I don't see how this will save much money... The parts cost them nix, it's the labour cost that's the doozy. The refurb process enabled them to send broken phones to low labour cost country to refurb.

On top of that, the tech has the time to repair the product properly instead of having customer pressure for time which will result in poor workmanship.

This can only be bad for customer sat. Didn't they fire that English retail guy already? Was he rehired or something ?
 
Apple... Ever heard the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? (No pun intended.)

You have a great system in place. Don't change it.

I could not agree more. The current arrangement is working very well indeed. Always has, no reason to change it up now.

It's as though Apple is bored and just looking to change as many things as possible.

Nothing like messing with just about every conceivable aspect of their business, all the while letting the top of the line iPhone languish.

After all, they're so thrilled to be entering the plastic phone fray, they can hardly contain themselves.

Just think of how long and hard they have been milking the same old 4, 4S, 5, 5S design with it's odd... long... narrow... display.

While no doubt they have some good intentions with this AppleCare "Upgrade" idea, the actual implementation is ripe for screw ups.

Suddenly the Genius Bar is dumbed down, lines getting longer, appointments will run long and chaos may break out .... oh my :eek:
 
Who says they won't honor it. Hell we don't really know that this meeting even took place. It's some alleged insider telling us it happened and what was said. Who says that person even got the details right.

Finally someone who gets it. Thank you.
This is just someone supposedly working for Apple saying a meeting supposedly happened and this is what supposedly was said at that supposed meeting. Not one little bit of proof to back up the statements made here.

But in MR's defence this is at times as close as we can get to facts before the mouth of Apple chooses to speak on the subject. If anything it's something to think about.
 
I don't know, maybe because of many tidbits fees for replacing the whole unit instead of repairing it? Apple needs to transport them back to the factory, disassemble, recycle, remanufacture, repack and then taking it back to the store as another refurbished unit?

Sounds complicated and expensive to me while all you need maybe only replace the speaker, vibrator, or the screen?

No matter how you try to reason and play it, it's still better to at least try to fix and replace what's broken. That way they make sure only FUBARed units getting back and not just because of "users want it"

Higher end and more expensive Mac (MacPro, iMac) had this kind of service for years, no way Apple would replace the whole machine without at least try to repair for 2 3 times? Couldn't see why it is a problem with a lesser iPhone?

This idea works in theory, practice there are other factors. Time pressures on the techs to fix the device, the margin for error on devices tiny like iPhones is very high when a customer is standing around like a wounded bull ready to charge right into you. Then having the pay people higher wages to fix (vs shipping the defective unit overseas). Then there's customer sat which takes forever to gain, and can be lost in an instant.

Everybody knows Samsung service sux, apple following suit?
 
It won't be for forever. At most you'd get until the law lets them obsolete the item. So 5 years tops except in a few places like Cali where by law it has to be 7 years.

I don't live in America.
 
..oh dear. Another one of Apple's USPs dies a death. This will not end well :-(

One of my favourite things about Apple is if there was an issue with a product you could walk into a store and have it swapped out with minimum of fuss in no time at all. They've just lost their support differentiator IMO, how long until it's mail in repairs only?

Premium price will be born by the consumer, but only if there's a premium service to match.

Prob has to do with the corrupt Apple store employees who are abusing the system and cheating Apple out of product.
 
Come on people!

Apple Stores ALREADY do this!

I hate to burst your bubble but if you come into an Apple store (US) and say "hey my speaker does not work" the genius bar is going to try replacing the speaker before the whole phone, takes less then 30 minutes for the repair.

If you got to a store you get your phone THAT DAY. No Apple Store in the US is holding iPhones over night for any reasons


(Replacement) "Oh hey my 3 month old phone does not turn on", "Alright, well under warranty we can replace that, do you have a backup?" "No" "Okay well all your photos are gone, deal with it"

(Repair) "Oh hey my 3 month old phone does not turn on", "Alright, well under warranty we can repair that, do you have a backup?" "No" "Okay, the first thing we are going to try is a battery replacement and depending on the results we will go from there. Ill check this is in and in 20 to 30 minutes your phone will be ready"
 
Well given in the last 2 years I've bought 5 AppleCare plans at €100-€350 each, If a subscription service came in at less € overall I'd be willing to go down that route. But..... Apple best not limit the amount of repairs / claims a person can make.
 
While I like the idea of re-using products that might have a minor fault I don't like the idea we will have to wait to have something fixed instead of getting a replacement in 15 minutes.

Will this reduce the cost of AppleCare?

I'm surprised how many of you would rather just get refurbished devices rather than have your own ones fixed.

For me it comes down to what it is and what it wrong with it. If it's an iPhone/iPad I'd rather a working replace, if it's an iMac I'd rather it fixed, but depending on the problem.
 
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I'm surprised how many of you would rather just get refurbished devices rather than have your own ones fixed.

Personally I would prefer my own computer / phone / iPod to be repaired instead. I bought it brand new, it belongs to me, I have a connection to my devices. Maybe it's just my crazy-artist side but I apply a certain amount of emotion to products that enrich my life and I care about them, not as much as people or animals but theres some care there and I would rather my little technological buddy was repaired rather than replaced.

If anyone is having difficulty understand this, imagine you had a car and you went on an awesome road trip and then you got a flat tire one day. Would you want to just have an identical version of that car replace yours? The one you created that awesome road trip of memories with? - That is my perspective on it. Now I'm not asking you if you agree with my view, I'm just explaining what I mean.

Oh please ... maybe it's your "crazy artist side"?!

It's a phone for God sake.

The benefit of a refurbished unit is that when your device develops a fault it's often months old. It will have a few mild marks or scratches and when you get a refurb you not only get the fault "repaired" but you get a scratch free device.

Now not everyone has a scratched device but its nice to get a "fresh" device.
 
people should stop lying to themselves, it's not about the time, it's about getting a scratch free unit.

It should be noted that this was always the case for laptops, so I don't know where people are getting hte impression apple gives refurbished laptops out, and even when my laptop gets fixed, it's oftentimes same day or next day (super fast)

It's surprising, but previously, batteries and display problems are swapped on the spot. iPhone 5 changed that a little, but for my 4s, display swaps took like ten twenty minutes, not HOURS that people claim, that's ridiculous.

I wonder how much of this is due to China savings. previously, china complained because they didn't get refurbished units while the rest of the world does. now nobody gets it.


A benefit I do see is that apple might start making easily fixable devices in the future.
 
Oh please ... maybe it's your "crazy artist side"?!

It's a phone for God sake.

I don't remember this community being so hostile when I first joined. What's with the attitude? I'm just sharing.
 
Apple is hoping to save money? When they already make so much money they don't know what to do with it?

I guess they are just preparing for the inevitable future.
 
First of all, I agree to the if its working great, don't fix it.

Second is this will create a chaos with how Quality control is done. I trust those genius bar guys like 0. They think all customers who break something are crooks and trying to get away with something, unless they are your friends, in which cases things easily fly your way if you are.

I've even known some of those genius who will like to cut corners. They give you excuses like well we just doing our job and that is all we need to do. No smile, and if you ask them a question about a product, they will answer, we not in sales or here to answer any questions about your apple products. (its like we know but FU, and go talk to someone who cares) And after the repair they will say oh its done. Then I will ask them to show me, that everything is in working order. But since then 2/3 of the times I've had a bad experience where I needed them to repair it again. They tell me it usually always works and never had a problem like this and its the first time, this has happened. But a supervisor or a more experienced cooler person will always step up and say just do this or that and it should be working.

For example new screen was crushed for being too tight making the colors change when changing screens. Well they repaired but only tested to see if the power turned on. I turned it on in the store and make sure all the applications ran correctly didn't didn't fade etc. I had to get them to fix this before I left. Or when you ask them to add something to the computer and well it has 4 screws but lets only put back 3 screws or 2 screws since that is all it really needs. Customer will never notice!

People don't realize that when its done in the factory its so much better. They are tested to work after being repaired! (This alone will save money, even in the factory!). Another person then checks their work and even then there is still some quality control problems now and then. But cause Genius don't have quality control, it'd be even worse! They have supervisors who's job is not QC, but to help them withs something they probably can't do. Cause later when it breaks due to quality control you will be out of warranty. Oh well customer tempered with the laptop obviously! look missing screws! I'm just saying **** like this can happen easily.

This is how the PC market is working. When Apple did this change they were praised heavily for customer service and repairs and got awarded for this. They cut phone support and took that money to focus on their customer's needs. They should take back all the customer service reviews and awards if they go back to the way things were.
 
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Cook is slowly destroying what makes apple better then all those android/wp/windows alternatives. And thats sad, very sad... Apples attitude towarda broken iphones under apple care (broken? Ok here you get new obe, enjoy) was unique (tey thatwith some android crap, you would get some xdays repair period and thats it), and in some way, it made the price of iphone acceptable... Now timmy, you are leading us to cheap android-like world, but i suspect that prices of apple devices wont fall... Sad
 
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