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Apple to use HyperTransport?

i think that HT is a relatively new technology. having a quick look around the HT.org site it looks like only the NVIDIA nForce 3 Pro and the AMD Opteron are the only ones to use this technology in computing. not sure about this, but it looks like IBM (and then Apple) might be the first to use it.

i guess that the first 970's could have HT... if Smeagol is released will apps like Photoshop 7 etc be able to run on a HT 970? if the OS needs a slight change to operate properly, won't that mean that all apps will also need an update to be able to run on a HyperTransport 970?

this is just getting more and more complicated...
 
Originally posted by Sun Baked
Hannibal should get a lot of the answers on the SMP topology, bus, cache snooping methods, etc. whenever he gets the meeting with the 970 people.
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Will he attend to the Westford Design Forum?
https://www-914.ibm.com/events/micro/03microcust.nsf

This session should be enlightenting:
Future Directions, 64-bit Multi-Gigahertz Embedded PowerPC's
by Jim Rogers, Senior Engineer PowerPC Products

Driven by ever increasing requirements for additional networked bandwidth combined with the ability to handle new and even more complex software and services the PowerPC® architecture is changing. To meet these challenges, and provide the best price/performance solution, a variety of enhancements to the Embedded PowerPC architecture are being implemented and include an extension into 64 bit computing, highly scalable Multi-Gigahertz frequency capability, advanced power management, instruction level parallelism, thread level parallelism and SIMD acceleration. In this session, these enhancements to the PowerPC® architecture will be reviewed, highlighting the improved capabilities of PowerPC technology and the benefits to embedded solutions.
 
Re: rapidIO

Originally posted by unreg
As I recall, RIO is one of the proposed PCI replacement technologies. Machines can have both Hypertransport and RapidIO.
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Wouldn't surprise me at all if the two do end up coexisting in some way.

From the looks of things though, rapidIO is aimed at the embeded market. I.e. things that are less software dependant and more hardware dependant. Like switches and routers etc. And as you look at the members on the consortium for RapidIO, you see it is mainly manufactures of Embeded products.

Here is a quote from www.rapidio.org

Q: What is the RapidIO interconnect target market?



A: The RapidIO interconnect is primarily targeted at the networking market. Unlike other contemporary computer-centric interconnects, the RapidIO technology addresses the networking industry's needs for software transparency, greater reliability, and higher bandwidth in an "in-the-box interconnect." The RapidIO interconnect provides higher bus speeds that allow chip-to-chip and board-to-board communications at performance levels scaling greater than ten gigabits per second.

----------------------------------------

As to the question above about will Apps like Photoshop have to be rewritten for them to work on a 970 machine. My understanding is NO. The 970's are inherently backwards compatible, and as such, they will run PhotoShop and other 32 bit apps as is. However, that doesn't mean that Photoshop can't be tweaked or updated to become a 64 bit app and take full advantage of the 64 bit processing power.

Kind of like the G3. When the G4 came out with Altivec/Velocity Engine, older versions of Photoshop ran just fine on the G3. But in time, Photoshop was updated to be able to take advantage of the G4 Velocity engine. As such it ran much faster on a G4, but was still compatible and still ran on a G3.
 
Originally posted by cb911
i guess that the first 970's could have HT... if Smeagol is released will apps like Photoshop 7 etc be able to run on a HT 970? if the OS needs a slight change to operate properly, won't that mean that all apps will also need an update to be able to run on a HyperTransport 970?
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It should be entirely transparent... unless Apple shifts to a NUMA architecture where apps would have to avoid storing to much data in remote location memory, since each CPU would have local (fast) and remote (some what slower, remote is indeed local to another CPU) memory.
In an SMP design memory has always the same access time (as long the bus is not saturated).
 
Trot out the Megahertz Myth speech, again...

and rename it the Gigahertz Guile.

It WAS true a few years ago. AMD gave it legitimacy when it stopped using clock speeds and named processor chips for the Pentium equivalent performance. Even Intel themselves have been forced to accept the truth of the Megahertz Myth to explain why Itanium chips have slower clock speeds than Pentiums.

However, with Motorola's slovenliness (and Apple's lack of progress with motherboard architecture), the clock speed gap has become so vast that the "Myth" logic is overwhelmed.

I work on a fast Windows box during the day and still prefer working at home on Macs with a fraction of the clock speed.

Nevertheless, I think it would be great if Apple could regain superior (or at least comparable) performance for those who really focus on that. If it causes some of us using older Macs to upgrade, it would be an excellent business move. If it also gets a non-trivial number of switchers, it will be brilliant!
 
apple's record makes it such that we'll see this technology in the 990s, dont expect to see it soon, or anytime when it would be compedative in the pc market.
 
Originally posted by DeusOmnis
apple's record makes it such that we'll see this technology in the 990s, dont expect to see it soon, or anytime when it would be compedative in the pc market.
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but maybe (hopefully) they're trying to change that outlook, and this seems like the best chance to do it with. New hotness processor plus new hotness hyperthreading = old and busted wintel machines.
I like the idea of winning a power contest by factors of numbers, not just numbers. But in the end, I just want to go faster. Soon.
 
Re: More Hypertansport claims...

Originally posted by vitrector
Newsfactor also has an article stating that Apple will be using Hypertransport (and an AMD chipset) in the forthcoming Powermas:
"According to preliminary reports -- completely unsubstantiated by Apple -- the G5 will be turbo-charged with IBM's (NYSE: IBM - news) 64-bit PPC 970 processor. The system's 64-bit addressing will be a major step past Apple's current bus architecture. The new machines will also include AMD's (NYSE: AMD - news) Hypertransport technology, which can push data down pipes at speeds in the neighborhood of 12.8 Gigabytes per second. "
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This is just another one of those "OSOpinions" columns, where they give a big soap-box to a clueless person and let them embarrass themselves royally in front of lots of people. It's some kind of entertainment, anyway.

Just look at the quote, "the G5 will be turbo-charged with IBM's 64-bit PPC 970 processor." This statement doesn't even makes sense.
 
this is all really confusing to me now. HT may or may not be in the 970, but i'll just have to wait till i can get my hands on one to understand it better. 😀


edit>> i just checked and found out that Apple Computer is a member of the HyperTransport™ Technology Consortium. interesting. i guess that almost guarantees that Apple will use HT sometime in the future.
 
Originally posted by DeusOmnis
apple's record makes it such that we'll see this technology in the 990s, dont expect to see it soon, or anytime when it would be compedative in the pc market.
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You're correct most of their record has been one of catching up but word on the street is that things are changing. Maybe not right away but they're certainly making some changes for the better.
 
Folks, I'm interpretting alot of misinformation here on what HT really is. Read up on it if you're interested. I'm certainly not an expert on it enough to describe it and give it justice but much of what I've seen here hasn't been too accurate. Remember there are many buses in a computer. The pci bus is not all there is to a computer and HT certainly is not replacing it.
 
Originally posted by DeusOmnis
apple's record makes it such that we'll see this technology in the 990s, dont expect to see it soon, or anytime when it would be compedative in the pc market.
Click to expand...

Well, recent record. But this is hardly true for Apple's total record.

I see no reason to be pessimistic. One reson we may not have seen Apple's recent hardware advancing as fast as their software is that their engineers have been beavering away on some mighty big projects for the past two years....
 
Originally posted by DeusOmnis
apple's record makes it such that we'll see this technology in the 990s, dont expect to see it soon, or anytime when it would be compedative in the pc market.
Click to expand...

There's no reason to believe that Apple is doomed to always lag behind Wintel. From the introduction of the PowerPC through the G3, Macs were very competitive performance-wise. The current problems are the exception, not the rule.
 
Re: ANice, but don't expect it to be ready at WWDC

Originally posted by seamuskrat

So, following my rusty logic, if they discus hypertransport, then they let the cat out of the bag that new Macs are on the way. So it looks like they just may demo new stuff.
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Someone please help us if they're not. It's more of a question as to when they will arrive and what they'll have in them... We know they're coming.
 
Interestingly, this seems to indicate that at least one dual processor config will be available. So the question remains: is it only the high end, the high aend and middle end, or all three?
 
Originally posted by Cappy
Folks, I'm interpretting alot of misinformation here on what HT really is. Read up on it if you're interested. I'm certainly not an expert on it enough to describe it and give it justice but much of what I've seen here hasn't been too accurate. Remember there are many buses in a computer. The pci bus is not all there is to a computer and HT certainly is not replacing it.
Click to expand...

From what I understand the external busses, such as PCI and AGP, will obviously be the same. HyperTransport is a technology to get all the interconnects between chips on the motherboard to work on the same protocol and standard. This way, there is no translation problems when you move between processors, or from processors to memory, or from system controller to processor, etc.

My interpretation could be wrong, but I think that's the basics.
 
Re: Rumor Site Credibility

Originally posted by reedm007
Hey Arn--

I'm not sure if this would work out, and I don't want to cause any political tension between sites or anything, but it would be really helpful to have something like a "buyers guide" for rumor site reliabilities.

You could go through different rumor sites, their predictions, the reality of those predictions, and then how credible a source that rumor site is. That would be really useful in determining validity of different rumors?

Cheers,
ReeD.
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Try here: http://arrca.da.ru

I can't vouch entirely for the reliability of this site. I know the person putting it up and he isn't exactly the brightest person I know but, hey, it can't take too much to do this.

What he's working on is putting up lists of rumors posted by rumors sites, indexed only when they come from that site's own sources (that is, if MacRumors says ThinkSecret says XY, he only puts it up as a ThinkSecret rumor). He tells me he's working back to the beginning of 2003 and then up to the present. Each rumor gets tagged as either false or confirmed once its predictions are either staledated, proven wrong, or turn out to be right.

Not sure if that helps any but I've looked at it a couple times and it's better than nothing, even if it is still under construction.
 
Re: Re: More Hypertansport claims...

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
This is just another one of those "OSOpinions" columns, where they give a big soap-box to a clueless person and let them embarrass themselves royally in front of lots of people. It's some kind of entertainment, anyway.

Just look at the quote, "the G5 will be turbo-charged with IBM's 64-bit PPC 970 processor." This statement doesn't even makes sense.
Click to expand...

The quote makes sense. The G5 they are referring to is the Computer, not a CPU. The Moto G5 was an PowerPC 85xx. The IBM G5 is going to be a PowerPC 970. Again, the G5 is what Apple will brand the computer as, not the chip. Imagine a statement by Apple such as "The all-new Macintosh G5 incorporates IBM's ultra-fast PowerPC 970 chip."
 
970 & Opterion on the smae mb

Hi guys;

Lets just imagine that Apple is going with HyperTransport, whats to prevent them from producing a dual processor machine with one CPU that happens to be an AMD Opterion or what ever they call it. Imagine the marketing possibilities, especially if they where to have a MS operating slaved as a task under OSX!!

Lets face it the 970 is a given, the only quesiton is when. My suspision is that it is farther off then we would like. At least from the standpoint of a full implementation. The only thing to question is what Motorola may have up its sleeve to fill in the lines that may not migrate to the 970 off the bat.

Thanks
Dave
 
Look at me doing the chicken dance...cluck, cluck...chicken dance!!!

People the new G5 (or whatever its called) is coming to a store near you real soon.

As for the HT thing...I would love to see it in the new ones but may have to wait but maybe not...

Now doing the funky chicken dance...cluck, cluck, cluck...
 
Re: 970 & Opterion on the smae mb

Originally posted by wizard
Hi guys;

Lets just imagine that Apple is going with HyperTransport, whats to prevent them from producing a dual processor machine with one CPU that happens to be an AMD Opterion or what ever they call it. Imagine the marketing possibilities, especially if they where to have a MS operating slaved as a task under OSX!!

Lets face it the 970 is a given, the only quesiton is when. My suspision is that it is farther off then we would like. At least from the standpoint of a full implementation. The only thing to question is what Motorola may have up its sleeve to fill in the lines that may not migrate to the 970 off the bat.

Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...

À la the 486 they put in the 6100... yes... I could see that happening... that could be quite useful...
 
Originally posted by DeusOmnis
apple's record makes it such that we'll see this technology in the 990s, dont expect to see it soon, or anytime when it would be compedative in the pc market.

Originally posted by Mudbug
but maybe (hopefully) they're trying to change that outlook, and this seems like the best chance to do it with. New hotness processor plus new hotness hyperthreading = old and busted wintel machines.
I like the idea of winning a power contest by factors of numbers, not just numbers. But in the end, I just want to go faster. Soon.
Click to expand...

This is the problem when you are playing with stacked cards, is that the one on top always has a killer waiting for you no matter what you do. Remember when AMD was trying to make huge strides into intel market share with price drops on k5's or whatever they were? what did intel do? they had the clout and ability to make even bigger price drops and introduce higher clocked chips . . . and no one saw it coming. i would love ht 970s too, but you gotta save your aces for the future too . . . until then we all get to be whiny and pratice our lack of patience 🙂
 
Why 'Smeagol'? (a theory)

In HyperTransport servers, the central bus is eliminated. Instead, processors and memory are spread out and united by a high-speed ring road, similar to the decentralized live-work areas that have become common in high-population areas.

Smeagol is the creature's old feeble self, awed and cowed by the power of the Ring, but represents the nicer, softer side. Gollum, however, is the shadow side, entirely in symbiosis with the Ring (enslaved by it).

10 cents on Panther being 'Gollum'?
 
Hyper and PPC 970

Found his link here at www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=6446 Note that one of the technicians says Mac fans "will not be disappointed". Since the PPC 970 seems to be the only chip capable of (a) being out by WWDC and (b) not disapointing us, I think its a fair bet we'll see PPC 970 enabled Macs at WWDC 2003!

Waat!😛
 
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