Apple TV 4K Advanced video settings - mockup

[jasper1977]

I finally got my new Apple TV 4K to output 1080p24 to my Pioneer Kuro tv, using a HDFury Linker…

That got me thinking about the issues with the Apple TV 4K: no native 1080p24 output, force upscaling of SDR to HDR, no automatic frame rate switching from 60hz to 24Hz for 24p content, etc… So I started creating a mockup of what would be ideal advanced video settings for home theatre enthousiasts / videophiles…

What do you think?

 

[loekf]

Yes agreed. Hopefully users understand that Frame Rate = GUI or default app frame rate (all apps are full screen anyways). So an app should have the option to change the frame rate when needed.

If so.. actually forcing the frame rate is not so important. I guess in 99% of the cases, things will run at 60p.

I think there are a veryfew cases where people want to run at 30p. E.g. when you have a 4K TV, but a HDMI 1.4 interface, so 30p YUV420 is the best you can get. Not sure if Apple actually supports that.

IMHO HDR for the average consumer is a complete mess to set up, with HDMI 2.0 inputs not actually set to default to e.g. "high color" or "advanced color" whatever they call it (= BT2020 color space).. or only one HDMI input on a TV supporting HDCP 2.2.

 

[PTVMan]

Nice work. Although I would complete automatic switching based on content. Also, I would love it if the settings could be accessed as an overlay while watching something.

 

[cynics]

Looks good.

You would also need settings for HDR at specific frame rates (B6 for example supports DV@30hz but not 60hz). And settings for switch frame rates to automatically switch too. This would be a nightmare for someone that doesn't know or understand any of this information.

At that point it would probably be easier for Apple to just put in presets for each TV manufacture and model.

 

[jasper1977]

I updated the mockup. I think this would cover most issues with the Apple TV 4K video settings…

 

[PTVMan]

I like your mockup, but my guess is that Apple would consider those setting to be too complex for a lot of owners.

 

[cynics]

View attachment 724860 I updated the mockup. I think this would cover most issues with the Apple TV 4K video settings…

Your rendering looks very good, looks authentic. Is this something you do professionally or a hobby?

Honestly though its just too much. As someone that knows what all that means I shouldn't speak for everyone but I feel like it would be too confusing for many/most.

A online database would be easier IMO.

Brand - LG, Samsung, Sony, etc
Model - B6, KS9000, etc

Other/Advanced - Allowing full customization by savvy users.

Then maybe..

Best for TV (based on Apples recommendation)
Custom

Under Custom

SDR/HDR
Chroma
Auto switch to native FPS

Since you put in your TV and manufacturer it should know all features your TV is capable of.

I can think of a couple problems with this though like if a manufacturer updates the TV firmware for new features or something and you need to wait on Apple. Maybe the solution would be allowing the TV manufacturer themselves to update the database. They more than likely would want to keep their product as good as it can.

 

[jasper1977]

Your rendering looks very good, looks authentic. Is this something you do professionally or a hobby?

I'm a professional webdesigner and desktop publisher.

Honestly though its just too much. As someone that knows what all that means I shouldn't speak for everyone but I feel like it would be too confusing for many/most.

Indeed, that's why I called it "Advanced Video Settings"… that way videophiles can tweak the settings as they like. Regular Apple TV users will just use the default settings based on Apples recommendation and will never have to look at the advanced settings…

 

[cynics]

I'm a professional webdesigner and desktop publisher.


Indeed, that's why I called it "Advanced Video Settings"… that way videophiles can tweak the settings as they like. Regular Apple TV users will just use the default settings based on Apples recommendation and will never have to look at the advanced settings…

Good point. You should have been more clear because apparently the title of the thread and label at the top of every image wasn't enough for me to get. Lol

How would you pose auto HDR switching work though? Seems like we'd be replacing one evil with a bigger evil.

SDR and HDR have different TV calibrations, when it auto switched between them you'd need to switch to different calibration. Maybe its a limitation of my TV but I can't calibrate based on source info, just on the source HDMI port. It seems people would go from manual turning HDR and SDR on/off to manually recalibrating their TVs.

 

[jasper1977]

How would you pose auto HDR switching work though? Seems like we'd be replacing one evil with a bigger evil.

I don't have a 4K tv, so I don't have any experience with DV or HDR… but shouldn't a compatible tv automatically switch to DV, HDR10 or SDR when the content has that type of HDR encoded and the media player supports HDR switching?

 

[Mark Booth]

Apple really missed the game by forcing HDR mode ALL of the time. My Sony 940E goes into TORCH mode (brightness at MAX) when HDR content is detected. Apple TV 4K tells the TV that it is ALWAYS in HDR mode, regardless of what I'm watching. Therefore, SDR content (and the Apple TV menus) are WAY too bright.

Each time I want to watch some old black & white TV program via the Hulu app, I'm not going to go into the Apple TV 4K's settings and turn off HDR mode manually. That's total BS. Therefore, I don't watch Hulu via the Apple TV 4K. I use the Hulu app available on my Sony 940E.

The irony is almost hilarious. Because Apple was too incompetent to automatically switch output based on content (SDR or HDR), I am using an ANDROID app to watch Hulu (the Sony is an Android TV).

This is BASIC stuff, people. How can Apple have so much money and so many talented people, yet, miss this very basic automatic output setting change.

At this point, I regret buying the Apple TV 4K. It's not ready for primetime.

Mark
[doublepost=1507830147][/doublepost]

Good point. You should have been more clear because apparently the title of the thread and label at the top of every image wasn't enough for me to get. Lol

How would you pose auto HDR switching work though? Seems like we'd be replacing one evil with a bigger evil.

SDR and HDR have different TV calibrations, when it auto switched between them you'd need to switch to different calibration. Maybe its a limitation of my TV but I can't calibrate based on source info, just on the source HDMI port. It seems people would go from manual turning HDR and SDR on/off to manually recalibrating their TVs.

Hardly. I have a Panasonic UB900 4K Blu-ray player connected through my Pioneer A/V receiver to HDMI #2 on my Sony 940E. I use the Cinema Home Pro calibration mode for HDMI port #2 on my 940E. I set the default brightness to 10.

Standard 1080p Blu-ray content looks fabulous. But pop in a 4K HDR Blu-ray and the Sony 940E AUTOMATICALLY increases the brightness to MAX. All set for HDR content.

In other words, the UB900 Blu-ray player outputs SDR when it is playing an SDR disc and outputs HDR when it is playing an HDR disc. My TV automatically adjusts for the higher brightness needed for HDR.

Apple TV just outputs HDR all the time (if HDR is selected and turned on in the settings). Stupid, stupid, STUPID.

Mark

 

[cynics]

Hardly. I have a Panasonic UB900 4K Blu-ray player connected through my Pioneer A/V receiver to HDMI #2 on my Sony 940E. I use the Cinema Home Pro calibration mode for HDMI port #2 on my 940E. I set the default brightness to 10.

Standard 1080p Blu-ray content looks fabulous. But pop in a 4K HDR Blu-ray and the Sony 940E AUTOMATICALLY increases the brightness to MAX. All set for HDR content.

In other words, the UB900 Blu-ray player outputs SDR when it is playing an SDR disc and outputs HDR when it is playing an HDR disc. My TV automatically adjusts for the higher brightness needed for HDR.

Apple TV just outputs HDR all the time (if HDR is selected and turned on in the settings). Stupid, stupid, STUPID.

Mark

Does the TV have an entire HDR profile or just brightness?

The shift in color with HDR vs SDR throws off the color and tint calibration. Native color space is better for SDR but defeats the purpose of HDR which requires Auto color space (Samsung). Surprisingly I'm finding Samsung added an HDR profile for my TV in a firmware update (it couldn't do it when I first bought it, just did brightness). So my color and brightness settings will automatically change when an HDR source is played.

There are still some other issues with auto switching. When you toggle back to the menu or bring up multitasking it would need to switch. Meaning the screen would be blanking out quite often switching between setting, sometimes near constantly if you were multitasking between two HDR sources.

I think they could just do a little better with their faux HDR settings. Set up with HDR makes all the SDR too bright, I get used too it and when I go back to an HDR source (especially from iTunes) it feels too dark.