Apple TV - FULL HD version??

[christian2006]

I like the idea of an Apple TV. However at the moment I just don't feel it is worth the cost. 40GB version would not be worth getting and the 160GB version is so expensive for what it is.

I would like to see Apple bring out a FULL HD (1080p) version that can compete with blu-ray. They also need to have a better way of getting content on to the unit.

In the UK we have Lovefilm. Here you can rent blu-ray discs for a monthly subscription and there are many tariffs available.

What would make Apple TV attrative to me is this:

Full HD & TrueHD audio (I am sure the new Nvida chips they are using can process 1080p HD)
Bigger HD - 320GB/500GB

Then iTunes Store should have a subcription model for Movies and TV content.

There could be unlimited tariffs and capped tariffs.

Also a subscription for TV shows. I feel it point less to buy TV shows especially as in the UK most TV is Free (apart from the license fee). It be so cool to wake up in the morning and have last nights TV downloaded to your iPod/iPhone ready to watch or downloaded to you Apple TV ready to watch when you want.

Who else thinks this is an appealing product/service?

 

[deorg]

I am waiting also for a Full HD ATV, It would have to bring a LOT bigger Hard drive, and an HMDI conector.
I realy dont feel confortable hacking into it, because each upgrade will be a complete mess...

 

[Tallest Skil]

Then iTunes Store should have a subcription model for Movies and TV content.

Oh, no. No Zune store crap for us, thanks.

Full HD is second on my list of reasons I haven't bought one yet.

First, Apple needs to get their DVR patents working for them.
Then 720 to 1080.
Then larger storage. I don't care too much about this, because I can always get my own drive cheaper and install it.

 

[kolax]

1080p compared to 720p at the normal viewing distance isn't worth the hype. The 720p content I have on my Apple TV is staggering - the detail is brilliant. I've played back 1080p content via my Mac onto my TV and the very slight/hardly noticeable increase isn't worth it. Fair enough as the TV size increases (beyond 46") then you'll notice more of a difference, but it is all down to viewing distance as well.

I agree that the hard drive size in the Apple TV is an embarrassment - iTunes streaming isn't the best solution (network bandwidth, iTunes and your Mac has to be running). I'd rather Apple had make the Apple TV slightly larger and fitted in a desktop hard drive that is a lot cheaper - 500GB and 1TB options.

I don't purchase content off iTunes. I have a 500GB external hard drive packed of movies (ripped from DVD's) and TV shows (recorded a lot of them).

and an HMDI conector.

HDMI you mean. And the Apple TV already has HDMI output.

 

[Volante]

I've read tests where people have had a hard time noticing the difference between 720p and 1080p. But that was downscaled bluray. Apple's 720p isn't that good. With 1080p-support it could hopefully handle high bitrate 720p. For example, the infamous bird scene in Planet Earth goes up to (and over?) 30mbps at 720p. The current Apple TV is nowhere near handling that.

 

[hitekalex]

I agree that the hard drive size in the Apple TV is an embarrassment - iTunes streaming isn't the best solution (network bandwidth, iTunes and your Mac has to be running). I'd rather Apple had make the Apple TV slightly larger and fitted in a desktop hard drive that is a lot cheaper - 500GB and 1TB options.

Rather than spending money on AppleTVs with huge hard drives, people should consider investing in some decent Cat5e cabling in their homes and going with centralized iTunes server for streaming.

I have 3 x AppleTVs in my home and I couldn't imagine the hassle of managing 3 separate libraries. It was much cheaper to just add a couple of 1TB drives to my iMac and this way all my content is in one place for streaming to any of my aTVs around the house.

So in my set up I don't really bother about the size of AppleTV local drives - when I am out of disk space, I just add another cheap TB drive to my NAS array.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I've talked to so many people that have gotten Blu-Ray and/or HDTVs in general and tell me they can't tell or can barely tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray OR SD television stations and HD ones. This is on 30-48 inch flat screens. So I have to wonder when I see so many people complaining and complaining and moaning that AppleTV isn't 1080P. Like half of you could tell the difference if it were! To compound the problem, people that buy those size screens will sit 12 to 20 feet away. No wonder they cannot tell the difference. The human eye has limited resolution resolving distances and if you sit beyond them with a given size screen per resolution, it's literally impossible to tell the difference. I think it's more of a wanting higher numbers just because they're higher than a real issue with most of the complainers. If you got a 90"+ screen and high quality projector, I can see why you'd want more. But someone with a 28" screen complaining? Maybe if they see 3 feet away....

Personally, I have a 93" screen and one of the highest rated 720P projectors out there (the Panasonic PT-AX100U) and the difference isn't exactly subtle at that screen size and sitting at the 8 feet distance of my view couch. On the other hand, AppleTV's 720P HD movie rentals look fantastic. This business about Apple's 720P being poor is total nonsense. I've rented dozens of HD movies and most are leaps and bounds better than HDNet, which is BY FAR the highest quality HD cable/sat station out there. At the distance I'm sitting, would Blu-Ray have potential to look better? Yes, it would. Would it if I were watching a 40-inch set? Not really. Does that mean AppleTV HD rentals look like crap? Hardly. They blow away the DVDs I have and are a great way to watch one-off movies (no trip to the rental store and hoping they have a Blu-Ray disc for the movie I want and no paying $25+ to own a movie I might watch once or twice in a lifetime).


What AppleTV DOES need is more features (without having to hack it). It SHOULD have an internet browser and for goodness sake, it's about time they added a visualizer! Having to watch photo slideshows during music and nothing else SUCKS.

I agree with the people bemoaning the lack of a subscription feature. I have almost ZERO desire to 'own' television shows. But if there were a monthly fee to watch unlimited tv shows or better yet movies, I'd jump on board assuming it was reasonable. At bare minimum, they should offer a rental option for TV shows. I don't want to own, let alone store them!

Apple should really work harder to convince the studios to allow rentals the same time as DVD. It's bad enough waiting months and months to watch a movie at home that's come and gone from the movie theater (who wants to go to a movie theater and pay $6-10 a ticket when you have a 93" screen and high quality 6.1 at home??? I sure as heck don't), but to to make matters worse, you then have to wait another 30-50 days to RENT a movie that IS available at Blockbuster or wherever to rent immediately. I mean that just plain SUCKS. And then you can't buy it in HD, so screw that. I don't want to own a less than DVD quality iTunes movie. I just want to rent them in HD. And then you only get 24 hours to watch it. That also sucks. 48 would be more reasonable and it's the standard in other countries, so why does the U.S. get screwed? Apple's clout fails to impress.

The sad thing about the hard drive space is now that AppleTV can control other AirTunes devices in the house, you no longer 'need' a server to run a whole house audio system. Any AppleTV in the house can control it and run off its own hard drive. But if you have a tiny hard drive, it just sucks as there's not enough room to run a decent size library in lossless (my lossless music library + music videos is 144GB and still growing), let alone if you own tv shows and/or movies. I could BARELY fit my 256kbit compressed library (that I use for iPods and my car stereo) and that leaves precious little room for photos let alone space to buffer rented movies and the like. They could have at least made it easier to change the drive.

 

[Volante]

The thing is; you can't go by resolution alone. I'm sure Apple could software update to 1080p at 5mbps, but what's the point? Bitrate increase, rabbel, bitrate increase, rabbel.

 

[iOrlando]

i have apple tv and rented a movie in HD and i really wouldnt notice/cant imagine the quality or sound being any better. I really think some of you are being very picky with your quality demands to the point that maybe one device will never satisfy your quality appetite. Apple TV is still an untapped resource and apple admits this...its what a "hobby" is suppose to look like, but i think it deserves a little more justice then it seems to get on these posts. i know the people on here are on the top of their audio/video game, but i think for 96% of people...the sound/quality from the HD rentals are top-notch. (as of now...i really dont get the concept of buying movies..since i only like watching them 1 or 2 times...i know that iTunes doesnt have many HD options for purchasing movies..but i mainly rent)

 

[carlgo]

I've talked to so many people that have gotten Blu-Ray and/or HDTVs in general and tell me they can't tell or can barely tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray OR SD television stations and HD ones.

This is usually because they plug their new HDTV in and watch in...SD! I had a long "argument" with a friend who just didn't believe he needed a special DirecTv dish and box to get HD. Finally, he did what I said and was so happy to see actual HD.

The moral of this is that if you can't tell the difference, you did something wrong. HD is hugely different than SD, although the networks dumb it down as much as they can for their own evil purposes (except HDNET).

I would like to see the new FCC people lay down the law and enforce some reasonable standards.

 

[Cave Man]

i have apple tv and rented a movie in HD and i really wouldnt notice/cant imagine the quality or sound being any better.

On the right sized screen, 1080p is better than 720p. And True-HD and DTS-HD are better than DD or DTS.

I really think some of you are being very picky with your quality demands to the point that maybe one device will never satisfy your quality appetite.

This is probably true for most people. But perhaps more importantly, the cost of getting into a 1080p large screen and audio system that can decode True-HD or DTS-HD will dwarf the cost of the Apple TV. If you're going to spend that kind of money, there are better solutions than the ATV. And don't forget the download bandwidth for 1080p/HD audio - it is crazy, crazy, crazy.

 

[NightStorm]

The problem with the 1080p hype is that most people sit way too far from their television to tell the difference.

 

[spice weasel]

I want my Apple TV to pop popcorn for me. I mean, really, how does Apple expect people to have a true entertainment experience if this thing can't even make popcorn?

 

[Tilpots]

Don't forget the DVR! Any respectable media hub has gotta have the ability to record OTA TV. iTunes store competition or not, free is free.

 

[iOrlando]

The problem with the 1080p hype is that most people sit way too far from their television to tell the difference.

true...i think most people sit way too close due to room size limitations. For tv's over 55 inch you really should be sitting pretty far back...most likely the proper seating arrangement is only attainable in an open floor layout and not a "bedroom" or similar squarish 15 ft by 15 ft layout.

 

[NightStorm]

true...i think most people sit way too close due to room size limitations. For tv's over 55 inch you really should be sitting pretty far back...most likely the proper seating arrangement is only attainable in an open floor layout and not a "bedroom" or similar squarish 15 ft by 15 ft layout.

You actually should be setting closer to HDTVs in order for your eyes to benefit from the additional resolution.

 

[Duffinator]

Regradless if you can see a difference between 720P and 1080P the world has moved to 1080P as the standard video resolution and so should the next version of the ATV.

 

[Duffinator]

true...i think most people sit way too close due to room size limitations. For tv's over 55 inch you really should be sitting pretty far back...

I have yet to find a TV that is too large and until it rivals the movie theater experience I'm sticking to bigger is better. Get the biggest TV you can afford and fit in your space and you'll never second guess yourself.

 

[NightStorm]

Regradless if you can see a difference between 720P and 1080P the world has moved to 1080P as the standard video resolution and so should the next version of the ATV.

I'm going to have to disagree; broadcast output is 720p or 1080i. Bluray is really the only traditional 1080p source I can think of at the moment.

 

[iOrlando]

You actually should be setting closer to HDTVs in order for your eyes to benefit from the additional resolution.

okay...just remember your eye doctors phone number because you will be needing glasses/stronger prescription over time.

i was referring to BIG tv's...just about the biggest you can get rear projector..mainly 65 inchers...i think i might have seen 70 in some catalog..but i dont think they come any bigger. (if you can prove me wrong..show me the ad) and then for front projector screens...there is no fun to be had sitting close to the screen, unless you are one of those people who sit in the first 10 rows of a movie theater.

for a 35-40 inch...sure..it can fit in any room...

 

[Duffinator]

I'm going to have to disagree; broadcast output is 720p or 1080i. Bluray is really the only traditional 1080p source I can think of at the moment.

True but we're not talking about broadcast TV. Were talking about the ATV, displays, and other sources in your home. Just about every TV manufacturer has a sticker that says 1080P TRUE HD on their display sets. Just go to any store and most large sets are now 1080P. The ATV (and any other sources for that matter) should be able to take advantage of that capability. Some STBs already are outputing 1080P and most others will follow. The course is set and there's no changing it now. Who knows, maybe some broadcast network will do 1080P although not likely in the near future. I stick by my original statement that the world has moved to 1080P and so should the ATV.

 

[kolax]

i was referring to BIG tv's...just about the biggest you can get rear projector..mainly 65 inchers...i think i might have seen 70 in some catalog..but i dont think they come any bigger. (if you can prove me wrong..show me the ad) and then for front projector screens...there is no fun to be had sitting close to the screen, unless you are one of those people who sit in the first 10 rows of a movie theater.

Same applies - there comes a point when you are sitting far enough back that you won't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p. For a TV of that size, as you say, you don't want to be up close. So you end up with the TV's perspective size being the same as any other TV at the ideal viewing distance. Be it a 15", 40", 100". And at that point, you'd notice very little difference/nothing to get hyped up about, between 720p and 1080p.

True but we're not talking about broadcast TV. Were talking about the ATV, displays, and other sources in your home. Just about every TV manufacturer has a sticker that says 1080P TRUE HD on their display sets. Just go to any store and most large sets are now 1080P. The ATV (and any other sources for that matter) should be able to take advantage of that capability. Some STBs already are outputing 1080P and most others will follow. The course is set and there's no changing it now. Who knows, maybe some broadcast network will do 1080P although not likely in the near future. I stick by my original statement that the world has moved to 1080P and so should the ATV.

1080p media is HUGE. For the size it takes up against the minimal detail increase, it just isn't worth it. Plus there isn't a chance in hell that Apple will start providing 1080p content for rental on iTunes.

 

[Duffinator]

1080p media is HUGE. For the size it takes up against the minimal detail increase, it just isn't worth it.

To you. My point it not to debate the merits of 720P, 1080i or 1080P. Most displays sold today are 1080P capable and so should the next ATV. The market place has already made that decision. If you don't currently own a 1080P capable set you will some day.

 

[kolax]

To you. My point it not to debate the merits of 720P, 1080i or 1080P. Most displays sold today are 1080P capable and so should the next ATV. The market place has already made that decision.

So your reasoning for the Apple TV to do 1080p is just because everything else does it regardless of whether it is worth it at all? Considering no content on iTunes will ever be 1080p for at least another 5 years (the internet struggles as it is, ISP's won't let people watch movies that are 10GB's every few nights).

Plus ripping Blu-Ray movies is tricky with all the content protection, so tell me, why do you want a 1080p Apple TV?

 

[Duffinator]

...so tell me, why do you want a 1080p Apple TV?

I want something that's future proof (at least for a few years) and I want all my sources to match my display devices. If the ATV was 1080i capable we wouldn't be having this discussion. But since it's not why not have the next version be 1080P capable instead of just 1080i? Even $80 upconverting DVD players output 1080P. I doubt there is much of a cost difference to upgrade the ATV to 1080P vs. 1080i.

BTW, good discussion.