Apple TV is not family friendly...

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by Wildkraut, Nov 8, 2015.

  1. Wildkraut, Nov 8, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015

    Wildkraut macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    #1
    Hi, Im somewhat disappointed with the new Apple TV because its not Family friendly at all.
    We are 4 people at Home: 2 Kids, my Wife, and myself and our new Apple TV is in the living room attached to our main Television. I think this reflects the setup of most families out there.

    * We can't/don't play games because there is no profile support, else we keep overwriting and extending each others savegames and GameCenter scores. We can't have independent iCloud, Photos or Apple Music Libraries, Savegames for each family member on it.
    * Manually switching the AppleID for the GameCenter, iCloud, iTunes Account is a torture.

    This holds us from buying extra 'TV' Apps, and just after few days the new Apple TV is becoming very unattractive. And now we are thinking of returning it.
    At all the Apple Tv works great, but this situation is a huge impact for all families.

    Cya
     
  2. TrueBlou macrumors demi-god

    TrueBlou

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Location:
    Scotland
    #2
    It should be straightforward once the accounts are set up and saved.

    Go to Settings > Accounts > iTunes and App Store > Add new Apple ID.
    Enter the Apple ID then click Continue, followed by entering the password.
    Finally, click on Sign In.


    Repeat as necessary to add more accounts.

    To switch accounts, go to Settings > Accounts > iTunes and App Store and click on the account you want to use.



    Family sharing also works when you do this.

    Although in all fairness I haven't tried it myself yet.
     
  3. Wildkraut, Nov 8, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015

    Wildkraut thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    #3
    Well its sadly not straightforward at all.
    All it does is to switch the AppleID of the iTunes Account, to allow the download of already purchased Apps,Games,Media and to update them.

    Anyway, trying it that way, it constantly asks for the "long and secure" password with every Account switch.
    In addition to that, for the GameCenter and iCloud switch, we have to manually retype the AppleID Email, because this saved "AppleID list" doesn't affect the GameCenter nor the iCloud switch.

    So this is the actual awkward account switching workflow:
    1.) Turn Apple TV on
    2.) Go check which profile is active: Navigate on screen -> Settings > Accounts
    3.) Navigate and switch AppleID over the saved "AppleID list" for the iTunes Account + type the "long and secure" password + confirm
    4.) Navigate and switch the AppleID extra for the GameCenter + type Apple ID Email + type the "long and secure" password + confirm
    5.) Navigate and switch the AppleID extra for iCloud + type Apple ID Email + type the "long and secure" password + confirm

    Btw. our passwords are long secure as it should be: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201303

    Another downside is, that these switching menus are hidden in some submenus.

    Steps (2-5) has to be completed every time an family member switches to another family member.
    Step (1) can be skipped if the Apple TV is already running.

    And in addition to this switching madness, this doesn't affect the local App configurations or local savegames.

    They should have created...
    ... an easy to reach Sandwich menu with User Avatars pictures, or an top thinner row on the main screen with User Avatars, and request the User Profile on Game/App start
    ... decent Multiuser Support/Profiles with PIN security code to avoid accidentally usage of the profile by other family members, etc.

    They failed badly here...
     
  4. turbineseaplane macrumors 68040

    turbineseaplane

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    #4
    Very very fair criticism.
    Lots more work needed on so many of these sorts of details.

    It's become painfully clear they rushed this out to make the holiday shopping window. Could be a big mistake with all the outstanding niggles and issues - might end up with lots of returns.
     
  5. powerbook911 macrumors 68040

    powerbook911

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    #5
    I have a problem in terms of switching Wi-Fi, seems some of these things like your accounts could be more seamless.

    If you need to switch Wi-Fi networks (I do once or twice a week), you have to reenter passwords, why can't it remember at least two WiFi passwords?
     
  6. kiranmk2 macrumors 6502a

    kiranmk2

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    #6
    This seems to be a common issue with Apple - they assume that everyone has all their own devices. For phones/iPods this is fair enough, but then this gets awkward for iPads and Macs and for the ATV is ununsable (from the sounds of it). A lot of the rumours suggested Touch ID incorporation to sort this out. Given the poor specs of the ATV4 (only an A8 chip, no 4K etc) and the persistent iPad profile support I suspect that profiles for iPad and ATV are going to be introduced - perhaps in the next models and iOS10.
     
  7. normanfox macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    #7
    Netflix did not have profile for years.

    this is a new platform tvOS. give it time. whatever ATV has should cover majority of basic needs. other minorities will have their features in the future. original iphone, ipad, netflix, xbox One, playstation 4, etc all lacked features.

    everyone wants Apple to meet his own needs first day. There are hundreds of features on the list. Apple has to prioritize it with the limited time and resource, like any products from any companies.
     
  8. mcdj macrumors G3

    mcdj

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Location:
    NYC
    #8
    Apple TV has had 4 hardware iterations and an extra year over Netflix streaming (2007 vs 2008) to initiate profiles and still hasn't done so.
     
  9. normanfox macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    #9
    the previous three generation was scraped since it can't be scaled for future growth. 4th ATV started from scratch.

    Intel built CPU for years but they hit the wall with Pentium 4. They had to build a new architect that can be scaled better starting with Due Core.
     
  10. TrueBlou macrumors demi-god

    TrueBlou

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Location:
    Scotland
    #10
    One thing I am curious about is if Apple do decide to overhaul this overly complex process, which they really should. What there handling of the password situation will be. Considering their stance on security I wonder if they would settle for setting up a pin, or if they would still require the password. I've a horrible feeling it would be the latter.
     
  11. Wildkraut thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    #11
    @normanfox:
    My daughter just wanted to play a game today and then i heard: Ohhh most levels already completed + sad face :(

    Sure, but features has to be categorised and Multiuser/Profiles support is in my opinion one of the *TOP* priorities for an permanently installed living room device which serves the whole family.
    Lacking features is okay, but lacking essential features is not.

    You can't compare Netflix profiles to missing tvOS/AppleTV profiles.
    An missing Netflix profile would not hold us from watching movies and series, we would just have to remember somehow what we already watched. Its less *comfort* but somewhat acceptable.

    The missing tvOS/AppleTV multiuser/profiles *destroys* the overall users experience in a family.
    It holds us from buying 'TV' Games and Apps. It messes up your high scores, messes up your savegames, and this mess syncs all over to the iCloud of the currently active AppleID.

    * iPhone: Personal mobile device, 1 Account is okay.
    * Apple Watch: Personal mobile device, 1 Account is okay.
    * iPad: Somewhat of an personal mobile device, with 1 Account acceptable, but multiuser would be better sometimes, 50%okay / 50% not okay.
    * iMacs: Non-Mobile device with Multiuser support since the beginning, no problem here, is okay.
    * Macbooks: Mobile device with Multiuser support since the beginning, no problem here, is okay.
    * New Apple TV: Permanently installed living Room device "with personal Data, Apps and Games, etc.", decent Multiuser support is a must have, currently no Multiuser support, no okay at all.

    And there aren't any workarounds for this situation:
    * 1 TV linked to 4 Apple TVs in the living room? No go!
    * Buy everybody an own TV and an own Apple TV = 4xTVs+4xATVs? No go!

    For singles the new Apple TV is fine, go buy it...
    But for families its unacceptable...
     
  12. Wildkraut thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    #12
    @TrueBlou
    Well they could simply wrap an PIN code around the normal AppleID account/password, they already do this on the iPhone,iPad.
    Its not to keep your family members from hacking the Apple TV, its to avoid accidental usage of the wrong profile, and keep the privacy in your household.

    Well its a permanently installed device, if somebody breaks into your house and grab it... you probably have bigger problems than the Apple TV. :)
     
  13. Menel macrumors 603

    Menel

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Location:
    ATL
    #13
    I brought this weeks ago, inquiring arter dev samples went out.

    Its another feather in the disappointment hat. This and the atrocious password entry.
    They half assed it, riding on the wave of popularity driven by iPhones.
     
  14. npmacuser5 macrumors 6502a

    npmacuser5

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2015
    #14
    The whole Apple Family implementation is a total mess. The same thing happens on iTunes for a Mac when you have multiple accounts/IOS devices to manage. The process is over complicated. Apple needs needs to understand simple security groups in the enterprise. At Apple KISS has left the building never to return.
     
  15. AVonGauss macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    #15
    Apple TV 4 did not start from scratch, its an evolution of the last three revisions with the original being the only "odd ball". Not to mention, while its called tvOS its really at most a fork of iOS - again, an evolution.

    A bit of a nit, but the first Intel Core Duo processors were actually based mostly on the Pentium III architecture - albeit with improvements. So, its more a case of where Intel acknowledged they failed with the Pentium 4 architecture and abandoned that path.
     
  16. ke-iron macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    #16
    Switching accounts is very seamless for me. I and my girlfriend are on a family share account and password has been configured to be saved. So when we need to switch we just go to settings and click on the other family account that is listed there, and that's it! Everything switches from one account to the other without having to type any passwords at all.

    The process is really as simple as going to settings and clicking a different email. I really don't understand how anyone could mess that up.
     
  17. Wildkraut, Nov 8, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

    Wildkraut thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    #17
    Check again, doing this doesn't switch the iCloud ID nor Gamecenter ID nor affect Savegames! It clearly keep showing the previous used AppleID for the other two entries(iCloud, GameCenter).

    Regarding the Savegames issue:
    *Make sure all three entries (iTunes, iCloud, GameCenter) is showing the same/your AppleID.
    *Play a Game up to a level to make it differs from your Girlfriends last played Level status.
    *Then complete the awkward user switch and make sure all three entries (iTunes, iCloud and GameCenter) is now displaying your Girlfriends AppleID and not your AppleID anymore.
    *Check the Savegame status, its still the same Savegame as before with your AppleID account.
     
  18. recoil80 macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    #18
    That's why the remote app ought to be updated.
    You pair the ATV with some iPhones and via the remote app you are able to switch settings importing usernames from the device. If you have touchid on your phone you don't have to enter the password sand you simply perform the authentication with your phone.
     
  19. Madmic23 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    #19
    They really, really need profiles on this thing. My four year old likes to watch his Disney Jr. shows like Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, but my wife and I like Game of Thrones. It's just odd when you go to the TV icon and those two shows pop side by side.

    Yes, when you click on TV shows icon, it takes you to a menu where you can sort by genre, but I'd rather not have my kids even see some of the icons for some of the shows. When we purchased Sons of Anarchy, my son asked why we bought a scary show, because the poster for the show was half of the main characters face and half skull.

    I bought the 4th gen Apple TV for it's future potential. I have faith that some really good apps will come out over the next year or so. I just really, really want user accounts to be one of the first updates that Apple makes to better separate the content.
     
  20. dugbug macrumors 65816

    dugbug

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Location:
    Somewhere in Florida
    #20
    This family integration really miffs me as an ATV4 user.
    1. Gamecenter profiles (I don't mind if its just gamecenter but let us bounce around).
    2. Multiplayer games need to allow for each member to sign in like the xbox
    3. Passcode pin unlock (parental controls) is currently out in the OPEN! You cannot enter a pin privately, its all on the big TV for your curious kids to stare at.
     
  21. Wildkraut thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    #21
    Yep, there is reason why classic video rental shops were prohibited for kids. That way you also *can't say* to your kids: Ok my son, turn the Apple TV on and chose something to watch. Few covers are scary...
    Also no way to avoid Explicit Music for younger kids...
     
  22. Wildkraut thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    #22
    Ohh yes, this Multiplayer issue didn't came to my mind yet. But yes its also an huge show stopper... Thanks! Today i will think about the Apple TV again, and make a decision(return or not return)
     
  23. Wildkraut thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Wildkraut

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    #23
    Oky we(kids and I, wife didn't care much) just decided based on todays experience.
    The Apple TV is now packaged and ready to be returned back by UPS tomorrow.
    Maybe they work this out with Apple TV 5 dunno.
    Its somehow an good device with great potential, but this way unusable for us as an family.
    ~THE END~
     
  24. turbineseaplane macrumors 68040

    turbineseaplane

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    #24
    It's just shocking that the concept of user profiles wasn't front and center as a primary design/implementation goal for ATV4.

    It would seem to be incredibly low hanging fruit, yet the fruit company did nothing about it. Just...shocking, really.
     
  25. mmcxiiad macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    #25
    I am disappointed that you can't hide things like you could on the previous apple tv.

    We have 4 young children. And while I can restrict the rating level for movies and tv, I want to hide those two from being accessed all together. Sometimes the covers that are shown is (at least in my opinion) too much for young children. Atleast having a pin code to get into them would be enough.

    I realize that apple rewrote a lot from the ground up, but it seems that there was a lot like this left out... not to mention the remote app, the bluetooth keyboard support, etc.
     

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