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quatermass

macrumors 6502
Sep 19, 2009
323
520
You obviously did not watch The West Wing, it was non stop action!
Now I remember... particularly liked the scene where Bartlett and Charlie are chasing that plane down the runway, guns blazing, car on fire, chased by zombies which then explodes as they fall into a black hole, killing all the clone Bartletts and stopping the deadly mutagenic virus plague by reversing the polarity. They should def reboot that show, and get JJ Abrams in too. And that Batman guy.
 
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Sam Squanch

macrumors regular
May 10, 2018
163
297
I can only hope that Apple’s Foundation series can measure up to The Expanse, with or without story changes.
I felt this way till season 4 where the show runner and writers have clearly declared that they know better than the source material. I've been super impressed with The Expanse seasons 1 through 3 but season 4 will be my last. I made the mistake of not ditching Game of Thrones after season 4 and held onto the deteriorating show till halfway through season 6 where I couldn't take it anymore. The Expanse is on the same trajectory and I'm jumping ship now.
 

quatermass

macrumors 6502
Sep 19, 2009
323
520
I don't get that at all from the trailer. I think you just want to argue about it
I don't think we're watching the same trailer. The one I watched has a storyline and characters that do not appear in any Asimov book, which I find strange, seeing as how that's what it's supposed to be based on. Or perhaps it's based on that other Foundation series by Frank Asimov.
 
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dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Jul 25, 2002
1,073
2,137
I felt this way till season 4 where the show runner and writers have clearly declared that they know better than the source material. I've been super impressed with The Expanse seasons 1 through 3 but season 4 will be my last. I made the mistake of not ditching Game of Thrones after season 4 and held onto the deteriorating show till halfway through season 6 where I couldn't take it anymore. The Expanse is on the same trajectory and I'm jumping ship now.
Huh?
Do you not realize the authors are on the writing team for the show...?
 

ChrisA

macrumors G4
Jan 5, 2006
11,953
826
Redondo Beach, California
I just recently re-read the Foundation Trilogy. The trailer seems to have re-imagined the book. It would have to. The book is filled with white male American characters right out of the 1940s and is filled with mostly dialog. If the book were directly converted to film it would look like an old dialog-driven black and white 1940s film but with few female actors.

I think the trailer might badly jumble the timeline and the real show follow it, but with more action and pictures than words. We shall see.

I suggest that people interested in this re-read the books if it has been some years (or decades) since last reading.
 
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HarryWild

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2012
2,032
704
Apple TV+ should follow Amazon Prime, Netflix and Hulu by release the entire season at ince instead of doing it week by week! Just hear this tactic is a big turn off! Carrot and stick does not work for regular streaming viewers.
 

Sam Squanch

macrumors regular
May 10, 2018
163
297
Huh?
Do you not realize the authors are on the writing team for the show...?
I thought they where consultants... anyway doesn't change the fact that season 4 went off script and they changed things that didn't need to be changed and was truly puzzling why it was changed and Alex dying just sealed the deal.

Look it's a fine show if you never read the books, it's getting into frustrating territory if you did considering what a great job they did seasons 1 through 3.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 68040
Jun 22, 2011
3,495
3,843
Seattle
I am so confused by that trailer. It didn't look bad, per se, but to say that was "based on the Foundation books" feels... dubious, at best. "Inspired by" is probably the right phrase there.

It looks like maybe they started from Forward the Foundation, because Seldon isn't a young man but isn't ancient either? But then mixed in the downfall of the empire from Foundation itself? But Forward heavily features the humanform robots who don't appear to be anywhere in that trailer, but I guess that doesn't mean they're not in the show...

Mainly I'm just confused. This looks really interesting, but I kinda get the feeling I'll enjoy it more if I go in not expecting Foundation.
I would not expect them to follow the 80 year-old books all that closely. This will likely be a “retelling” of the story with shifts in events and characters at the least.
 

unobtainium

macrumors 68030
Mar 27, 2011
2,515
3,709
Having read the original trilogy (but not the rest), I don’t think a “faithful adaptation” would work as a TV series. What matters is capturing the high concept, big ideas of the books, and based on the trailer I’m cautiously optimistic. The visuals and performances all look great.
 

Mrjoedot

macrumors 6502
Dec 29, 2012
345
167
Asean market
so far almost 100% of Apple TV Plus are top notch.
except from Losing Alice, Schmigadoon, Dickinson.

excluding documentary and kids.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 68040
Jun 22, 2011
3,495
3,843
Seattle
so far almost 100% of Apple TV Plus are top notch.
except from Losing Alice, Schmigadoon, Dickinson.

excluding documentary and kids.
And some of us really liked Schmigadoon. It's OK, we don't all have to have the same taste.
 

Sam Squanch

macrumors regular
May 10, 2018
163
297
And some of us really liked Schmigadoon. It's OK, we don't all have to have the same taste.
Yes the problem of sweeping statements and the assumption that your tastes are the pinnacle of entertainment. I adore Dickinson but can see why some people won't like it. Both Central Park and Schmigadoon are not to my taste but I understand not every show is for me and AppleTV is trying to build a library that will have something for everyone.
 
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dguisinger

macrumors 65816
Jul 25, 2002
1,073
2,137
I thought they where consultants... anyway doesn't change the fact that season 4 went off script and they changed things that didn't need to be changed and was truly puzzling why it was changed and Alex dying just sealed the deal.

Look it's a fine show if you never read the books, it's getting into frustrating territory if you did considering what a great job they did seasons 1 through 3.

Regarding Alex, the actor was fired due to major allegations from people he worked with, fans, and underage women. They didn't purposefully write him out.
 
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entropys

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2007
1,118
2,054
Brisbane, Australia
Now I remember... particularly liked the scene where Bartlett and Charlie are chasing that plane down the runway, guns blazing, car on fire, chased by zombies which then explodes as they fall into a black hole, killing all the clone Bartletts and stopping the deadly mutagenic virus plague by reversing the polarity. They should def reboot that show, and get JJ Abrams in too. And that Batman guy.
Best West Wing episode eva!
 

Tagbert

macrumors 68040
Jun 22, 2011
3,495
3,843
Seattle
Yes the problem of sweeping statements and the assumption that your tastes are the pinnacle of entertainment. I adore Dickinson but can see why some people won't like it. Both Central Park and Schmigadoon are not to my taste but I understand not every show is for me and AppleTV is trying to build a library that will have something for everyone.
Now you have me interested in finding out more about Dickinson ?
 

andrewdon

macrumors newbie
Dec 2, 2017
9
0


Apple TV+ today shared the official trailer for highly-anticipated sci-fi series "Foundation" ahead of its premiere on September 24.


Based on the best-selling novels by Isaac Asimov, Apple says "Foundation" is an epic saga chronicling a band of exiles on their monumental journey to save humanity and rebuild civilization amid the fall of the Galactic Empire."Foundation" stars Emmy Award nominees Jared Harris and Lee Pace, alongside Lou Llobell, Leah Harvey, Laura Birn, Terrence Mann, Cassian Bilton, and Alfred Enoch.

The first episode of "Foundation" will be released on Apple TV+ on September 24, followed by one new episode weekly every Friday. Series writer and showrunner David Goyer hopes to tell the story over the course of 80 episodes.

Apple TV+ costs $4.99 per month, with a free seven-day trial available, or a longer trial available with the purchase of select new Apple products.

Article Link: Apple TV+ Shares Trailer for Sci-Fi Series 'Foundation' Ahead of September 24 Premiere
Please for the love of God don'e Poz/F-Up this adaption. The Foundation is too important to be sacrificed of the alter of wokeness, like so many others.
 
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N1noodle

macrumors member
Aug 3, 2021
66
50
Sweden
Ill treat show as inspired of foundation then i wont be dissipointed :)

Its insanely hard to convert foundation books to a tv show, but at least they went with a tv show instead of trying to fit it in a movie.
 
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neuropsychguy

macrumors 68000
Sep 29, 2008
1,885
3,944
And you know that based on all the unchanged screen versions of Foundation?

Aaron Sorkin says “Hi!”
I stand by my comment that the Foundation books would not translate well to screen without significant changes. I didn't explain very well though, especially what I mean by action (see next paragraph) and I and others mean that they are "mostly talking". People have been trying to make the Foundation series into movies or shows for years without being greenlit. That doesn't necessarily mean anything but there's a reason so few shows have been based on works by writers like Asimov or Heinlein. They are difficult to translate to the screen (which means they don't make good shows without many changes).

I really like the books (I've read them several times and re-read them within the past 2 years) but they read like philosophy and psychology textbooks. There's little to no characterization or character development. There is also little plot. That's what has to be added and expanded upon. That will inherently introduce "action" in the sense that something will have to happen on screen rather than grand discussions about psychohistory. To make the screenplays good, writers will have to create character for the various book characters. They will have them do things. What little action or development there is in the Foundation books usually happens off the page. Action does not only mean Michael Bay -- explosions and fighting or chases. That can be fun but it's mindless at best. That's not Asimov. However, action also includes character development and plot progression, which is also not Asimov's writing in the Foundation series.

The closest sci fi movie to the Foundation books, at least in substance and style (e.g., cerebral), is Arrival. That is a great movie but it has more character development and other action than any Foundation book. The same is true for any Aaron Sorkin work, including the West Wing. The same is true for the classic Twelve Angry Men, which is mainly talking.

Even a book like Dune has been hard to translate for screen and that has much more action, character development, and world building than the Foundation series. What Foundation has is idea-building -- psychohistory, mathematics, politics, religion, and so forth. What the books are missing is story building and character development. Both of those are things Aaron Sorkin does and generally does well. Anyway, that's what I mean the books will need significant changes and more action. People who want 60 hours of psychology or philosophy can take a university course or find lectures online.
 
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theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
6,840
6,356
Someone once said "There's no action in Asimov books - it's all talking!"
The reply was "The talking is the action!"
That West Wing thing.... talk talk talk! Who's going to watch that?
There's well-written dialogue between engaging characters - and then there's cardboard cutout characters from the 1940s delivering great stodgy chunks of exposition. I'm afraid that the original "Foundation" trilogy tends more towards the latter - which isn't such a bad thing in a novel (where it doesn't make such a difference if the descriptions have quote marks around them). That's not to question its position as a classic SF novel that helped shape modern SF - but it makes (say) Dune look action-packed and full of snappy dialogue :)

Superficially, you could point to, say, "The Man From Earth" - which many people see as a great SF/Fantasy film about a bunch of people sitting in a single room and having a discussion - but it's also a story about those individuals having their personal scientific and religious beliefs put through the wringer, not just having a committee meeting.
 

IllinoisCorn

Suspended
Jan 15, 2021
1,217
1,650
I am so confused by that trailer. It didn't look bad, per se, but to say that was "based on the Foundation books" feels... dubious, at best. "Inspired by" is probably the right phrase there.

It looks like maybe they started from Forward the Foundation, because Seldon isn't a young man but isn't ancient either? But then mixed in the downfall of the empire from Foundation itself? But Forward heavily features the humanform robots who don't appear to be anywhere in that trailer, but I guess that doesn't mean they're not in the show...

Mainly I'm just confused. This looks really interesting, but I kinda get the feeling I'll enjoy it more if I go in not expecting Foundation.
I hope nobody is expecting or wanting the Foundation show to be like the books in anything but the broadest terms.

There's very little world building and Asimov is not a descriptive writer.

This series is like 80 years old and is not modern in any way. If you read it, Asimov's concept of what nuclear technology would be like in the future is pretty silly.

In other words, if Apple made the Foundation show just like the novels, they would have an absolute dud on their hands.

But...since Asimov's story leaves such large gaps, there is plenty of room for a talented writer and effects team to sort of fill in the blanks.
 
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