I agree with your lengthy discussion 100%. The only thing missing at this point is the HD 720p content for which AppleTV is designed. Currently, cable, satellite and over the air are the best ways to get HD TV. iTunes Store content is substandard. Hopefully that will change really soon and I'll be onboard in a flash.
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Apple TV Shipping Tuesday, March 20th?
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1) OK, again, iDVD DOES NOT PLAY DVDs.1) Slingbox and other streaming media systems CAN play DVD movies on Media Center PC wirelessly, so it wouldn't be a stretch to incorporate iDVD to play wirelessly throughTV, just a matter of software.
2) This isn't about MONEY, but simplification. Eliminating a top set DVD unit from your home entertainment system and utilizing the DVD player on a Mac or PC would make perfect sense, especially as internal Blu-ray DVD drives are currently available on the market for much less than stand alone top sets.
3) As I (and generally most movie lovers) have hundreds of DVD's, it would be a great deal of HD space. Currently I have about 1000+ DVD's in my collection stored in Case Logic books. If the point of ripping your movie collection is to have instant access to them wirelessly from your Mac or PC, then it would be a lot of physical HD space to have an entire collection at your instant fingertips. 1,000 DVD's would translate to at LEAST 4,000 gig. As a 750 gig Seagate Ultra (not Serial) ATA drive is roughly $400 at Bestbuy, you're talking at least $1,000 JUST for movie storage. Doesn't make much sense (not to mention the hours in ripping DVD's). Why would I want to rip hundred's if not thousands of DVD's onto a hard drive, then spend more time compressing them so they fit and quite possibly losing quality in compression?
2) How is this simpler? I have to dig out my DVD, put it into a player that is generally in another part of the house (the computer), then go watch it in the living room? Plus, I need a remote that can control my computer through walls, etc, which is more expensive and less reliable.
3) A 250gb HDD is <$70 and will hold 250 movies at DVD quality if you encode them in MPEG4.
I'm turning my wife's several year old PC into a box to hold DVD rips to playback through my TiVo. I'm not even going to re-encode them, just rip the main movie and main soundtrack to the disk and store it. Most movies are between 3.5gb and 5gb with all the features and foreign languages removed. It takes about 15 minutes to rip them like this. I've got a 120gb HDD in there, with about 100gb free after OS and apps, etc. I'm going to spend $70 and add 250gb more. So I can store about 80-90 movies at a time. Not my ENTIRE collection, but I can keep my 50 favorite movies on there in PERFECT DVD quality and have room for my 30-40 newest movies, stuff I've rented but didn't have time to watch, movies I've borrowed, whatever. Plenty of space, for my needs. Total expense: 1 out-dated Dell PC (it's seriously 3+ years old), and $70 for a new HDD. I could EASILY go for a 400gb drive for $100 if I feel like it at the time and add 30 movies to the system.
I could use a spiffy on the fly MPEG4 to MPEG2 conversion utility for TiVos that would let me store roughly 4x as many movies at the expense of some quality and the extra time to reencode them. I'm going to stick with the lossless quality and sub-15 minute rip time.
1) Referring to any one's argument as stupid is indirectly referring to their logic and such as rudimentary and stupid (my BA from Stanford and MA in social organizational psych from Columbia may prove that point invalid). There are other terms in the English lexicon to refer to someone's argument other than "stupid" - we are adults here, right?
2) Assuming that your statistics are sound (no links?), just because internet use has increased nationally does not automatically equate to millions of DVR/Cable users automatically ditching their DVR units for
TV and internet content. There is no correlation between increased internet use and decreased cable television viewership and DVR ownership (or causality).3) Mediamark Research (MRI) finds that 11.2 percent of U.S. adult households have DVRs, up from 8.6 in the fall of 2005 and 3 percent in 2004. DVRs households record an average 11.3 shows per week, up 23 percent from last year. The number of shows actually recorded on DVRs is low relative to the volume of TV consumed. The report estimates 4 percent of all TV viewing in the U.S. is recorded or consumed through on-demand channels.
DVR owners tend to have higher levels of education and household incomes. College educated adults comprise 36.8 percent of DVR owners, compared to 25.2 percent of the U.S. adult population. Seventeen percent of DVR homes have an average household income exceeding $150,000, compared to 8 percent of the general adult population. Nearly 16 percent of DVR households own homes worth over $500,000, compared to 9 percent of the general population.
The DVR market is still considerably a HUGE market Apple, Inc. is essentially ignoring through
TV. While the iPod took years to obtain cult status and popularity, the iPod entered a market that was new and undeveloped (digital music content). Many individuals scoffed at the idea of throwing away their CD's for MP3's, and it took a few years for just such to occur. However, comparing CD's to DVD's and DVR equipment is essentially comparing apple's (no pun intended) to oranges, for reasons I will not go into now (such as heavier copy right protection and laws associated with DVD's and the psychology of the average consumer switching from DVD content to even more heavily regulated iTunes video content - is it possible to burn iTunes movies to DVD's?)...
More DVR statistics:
DVR Ownership and Usage
• DVR ownership is growing rapidly: In Feb. 2006, a study by Rider Research concluded that world DVR usage among digital TV subscribers will increase from 7% in 2004 to 61% in 2010.
• Forrester Research generally concurs: the firm estimated in 2006 that approximately 15 percent of US households currently own a DVR. By 2010, Forrester predicts that more than 50% of US households will own DVRs.
• An October 2006 estimate by market-research firm IDC predicts that nearly 20 million DVRs will be sold in 2006, increasing to more than 43 million units in 2010.
• According to figures published in the Hollywood Reporter in Nov. 2005, DVR households watch 12% more TV than non-DVR households.
So how is my argument about DVR usage "stupid"?
The problem stems from the fact that DVDs are encrypted and CDs are generally not. You are allowed to make copies under the fair use terms of copyright laws in various jurisdictions, but in the US as increasingly in other countries, it is now illegal to break encryption (which is specifically put in place to control copyright). If you think this lay (at least in the US is anti consumer - you would be right) - But that is what happens when commercial interests end up running a country - the companies get their way and the little people get screwed. Having said that I can't blame the companies who market content for trying to protect their interests, it is just the way they go about i which is wrong in that it penalises the legitimate user without doing much to stifle the pirate. FYI it is also a crime in an increasing amount of western jurisdictions to even try to reverse engineer an copy protection method - such s applied to DVD and also DRB or HD-DVD. Thankfully that does not seem to deter the skilful and determined few who provide salvation for the infuriated many
Easy champ, my bad, I meant DVD player. I think you know what I meant (I've been using iDVD all day long on projects so it was in my mind).
As someone who has left I/O psych for interior design and architecture, one of the pro's with Apple has been the ability to have wireless surround sound capability with Mac/PC systems using wireless routers and Airport Express stations. This takes out the need for multiple stereo equipment throughout most homes. Most people, including myself, have a few AVR's linked to Airport Expresses in various rooms and a BT remote control (various manufacturers have them available on the market) that allows the user to view what is playing and what is next in iTunes, etc.
This system has generally eliminated top set CD players from most homes, with the Airport Express wirelessly playing music from a "virtual" CD Player - the home computer.
Now, this model could be EXACTLY the same with DVD's. Why not have the home Mac/PC become the "virtual" DVD player WITHOUT having to rip every DVD in your library? Who cares if you have to go to your Mac/PC to insert a DVD to watch a movie? Are people THAT lazy??? Further, using this model suggests the need for only ONE DVD player on a Mac/PC, meaning you don't need multiple DVD players in every room of the house, just a Mac/PC with a high end internal DVD optical drive to play/stream from... and yes, there ARE remotes on the market with corresponding software that would allow such, yet my point is if Apple incorporated such capabilities within their
TV product, then the software would be included.Ok, so basically I should spend 15 minutes a DVD to rip them into another computer. That means I will have ANOTHER piece of hardware along with the
TV I could presumably buy. 15 minutes a DVD times 1,000+ DVD's, I don't have the time for that and I can bet not many people do. More over, what happens if those HDD's fail and alllll those DVD's you ripped are gone? Will you have backup's of all your DVD's? And if so, that will require more drives and more money. Or will you keep your original DVD's just in case, taking up more room and detracting from the simplicity of the TV, and requiring the ripping process all over again? How is this simpler?Wouldn't it make more sense just to stream DVD's from the Mac to a HDTV? Nothing seems simpler than that...
And I agree with you BOTH !!!
All very good and valid points.
I would add, as to 720p content, that is just a matter of time but it is coming, SJ knows it, who doesn't after all ?
The reality is however that 720p content has just begun to appear in some quantity - I can testify to that having had a HD panel for nearly 4 years !!!
Yeah, you are. You're just not allowed to break the encryption on it. If you make an image of your DVD verbatim and store it archivally, that's fine, so long as you're not doing anything disallowed with that backup copy.
You people keep forgetting that Apple TV is not just video.
Is having your music in your living room playing thru your home cinema in a really easy way. Playing videoclips in parties. Showing your pics of your last trip to people from the couch.
And probably more functionality down the road. This is what i think apple tv will be capable of really soon:
-display your computer screen (leopard) thru your tv (imaging internet that easy in your big ass tv
-games
-itunes rental of shows and movies right from the tv
-etc?
Plus is just cool and looks beautiful under the tv!!!!
Is having your music in your living room playing thru your home cinema in a really easy way. Playing videoclips in parties. Showing your pics of your last trip to people from the couch.
And probably more functionality down the road. This is what i think apple tv will be capable of really soon:
-display your computer screen (leopard) thru your tv (imaging internet that easy in your big ass tv
-games
-itunes rental of shows and movies right from the tv
-etc?
Plus is just cool and looks beautiful under the tv!!!!
Easy champ, my bad, I meant DVD player. I think you know what I meant (I've been using iDVD all day long on projects so it was in my mind).
As someone who has left I/O psych for interior design and architecture, one of the pro's with Apple has been the ability to have wireless surround sound capability with Mac/PC systems using wireless routers and Airport Express stations. This takes out the need for multiple stereo equipment throughout most homes. Most people, including myself, have a few AVR's linked to Airport Expresses in various rooms and a BT remote control (various manufacturers have them available on the market) that allows the user to view what is playing and what is next in iTunes, etc.
This system has generally eliminated top set CD players from most homes, with the Airport Express wirelessly playing music from a "virtual" CD Player - the home computer.
Now, this model could be EXACTLY the same with DVD's. Why not have the home Mac/PC become the "vitrual" DVD player WITHOUT having to rip every DVD in your library? Who cares if you have to go to your Mac/PC to insert a DVD to watch a movie? Are people THAT lazy??? ... and yes, there ARE remotes on the market with corresponding software that would allow such, yet my point is if Apple incorporated such capabilities within their
[QUOTE}I'm turning my wife's several year old PC into a box to hold DVD rips to playback through my TiVo. I'm not even going to re-encode them, just rip the main movie and main soundtrack to the disk and store it. Most movies are between 3.5gb and 5gb with all the features and foreign languages removed. It takes about 15 minutes to rip them like this.
Ok, so basically I should spend 15 minutes a DVD to rip them into another computer. That means I will have ANOTHER piece of hardware along with the
TV I could presumably buy. 15 minutes a DVD times 1,000+ DVD's, I don't have the time for that and I can bet not many people do. More over, what happens if those HDD's fail and alllll those DVD's you ripped are gone? Will you have backup's of all your DVD's? And if so, that will require more drives and more money. Or will you keep your original DVD's just in case, taking up more room and detracting from the simplicity of the TV, and requiring the ripping process all over again? How is this simpler?Wouldn't it make more sense just to stream DVD's from the Mac to a HDTV? Nothing seems simpler than that...
[/QUOTE]yes, ripping dvd's is a major PIA, in fact not practical at all. So far. This may change.
Nope, no confusion here. 480p (when marketed as EDTV) is part of the HDTV standard. There is no such thing as 'EDTV' officially--there is SDTV (which is exclusively limited to 30fps) and HDTV. See your preferred source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced-definition_television.
Again, that's not to say that 480p is "high definition" content, but merely that it is part of the standard. ATSC does not recognize EDTV as a standard, as it's purely a marketing fabrication. The trouble lies in the fact that 480p can also fall into the SDTV category, but no 480p broadcasts are made in SDTV.
MacinJosh and Avatar74,
for all intensive purposes, you both are right... just arguing the same side of the coin so to speak. I see you both are very passionate about the subject of dvd resolution, but in the interest of our general readers, would it be possible to move this geek debate into a new thread?
thanks, spicy
There are no INTENSIVE purposes, unless you're really intense about doing multiple things.
The correct phrase is "for all INTENTS and PURPOSES".
Pet Peeve. Move along. Nothing to see here.
480p is part of the ATSC digital television standard, not the HDTV standard. The article you referenced, clearly describes 480p under the "standard definition" designation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atsc#Resolution
As marked by the HDTV resolution graphic below, only 720p, 1080i and 1080p resolutions are considered part of the HDTV standard.
"Current HDTV standards are defined by the International Telecommunication Union (ITU-R BT.709) as 1080 active interlace or progressive scan lines, or 720 progressive scan lines, using a 16:9 aspect ratio."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV#Standard_resolutions
Cable Shipped
My "XTREMEMAC HDMI TO DVI CABLE," which I ordered with the Apple TV, just shipped. Wahoo!
My "XTREMEMAC HDMI TO DVI CABLE," which I ordered with the Apple TV, just shipped. Wahoo!
Even better, I just got a shipment notice. FedEx is aware of the package, but has yet to receive it.
Sorry for the crappy blur job, but I wound up using iPhoto on a trackpad to blur it.
And yet, somehow, all that expensive education didn't result in the ability to correctly deploy an apostrophe?
Cheers!
Jim
PS - No comment on the relative merits of either side of this argument - I'm just an apostrophe fascist.
No drugs here, just wine<sigh>
I just saw advertised in the US (I'm in the UK) the same HDD I bought here for about $500. Not much compared to what you spent acquiring such an enviable number of DVDs (and I AM envious! mine is just around 300 or so<sigh>), and you must admit your library size is more than most. Not pointless, just different priorities and where you are in the adoption curve (those little discs have an end date in sight).
Um, yeah, and that cost you HOW much? I googled prices for a 2 Trillion byte HD, they start at about $1,000. As I have WELL over 1,000 DVD's in five case logic books, it would cost me a hell of a lot of money (and time in ripping). Pointless...
I just saw advertised in the US (I'm in the UK) the same HDD I bought here for about $500. Not much compared to what you spent acquiring such an enviable number of DVDs (and I AM envious! mine is just around 300 or so<sigh>), and you must admit your library size is more than most. Not pointless, just different priorities and where you are in the adoption curve (those little discs have an end date in sight).
One thing I'm wondering about with the AppleTV is the whole audio issue as it relates to TV and film. These days thats in 5.1 Dolby or DTS (or lossless formats on HDDVD/BluRay). What exactly can the AppleTV handle? Is it stuck with just stereo?
Supposedly AAC can handle up to 7.1...but can anything decode that audio?
Supposedly AAC can handle up to 7.1...but can anything decode that audio?
I got the shipping notice from Apple about three hours ago. On the Fedex tracking page, it says Package data transmitted on March 18.
Arrogance is the ugliest form of insecurity. If I really cared about the perfection of my [causual] postings on a Apple website, I might take the time to proof read. Sadly, I have better things to do [but thank you for pointing out my misappropriation of "apostrophes". kudos].
lol true, but you should see my friend's collection who works for Dreamworks (well, worked, I think he switched studios recently). His name is Mark and they call him "Markbuster" for the walls of DVD's he has (and he insists on keeping them in their original DVD containers). He actually had a room built with bookshelves just for his DVD collection. Yeah, insane eh
I would love nothing more than to rip them all to a system as I tend to minimize the clutter in my home and I like simplicity in my media and such. When the iPod first came out, I was one of the many who spent close to $500 on the 5GB unit, but still had difficulty letting go of my CD collection. Now that I am 100% digital, I would love for the same to apply to my DVD collection. My only concerns are:
1) the time spent in ripping my collection
2) any quality that may be "lost in translation" from ripping
3) the total size in DVD movies would be much greater than my measly 10.14 GB song collection, which due to its size my music is much easier to back up in case of any possible HDD failure
I'm certain once the
TV takes off, issues with excessive drive sizes and ripping times will be extremely improved. Until then, my concerns mean nothing, just the banter of a spoiled American enjoying the benefits of a blossoming digital age.(Now excuse me while I proof read for any punctuation errors
)--Oh, and where in the UK are you? I LOVE the UK, used to live in London and spent many vacations there wishing I could move (and if things keep up in the US political and cultural departments I may be seeking asylum soon lol - although I have been disappointed to see more and more American corporations such as Blockbuster and fast food franchises such as KFC and Starbucks taking over all the private Mom and Pop businesses that made [my] London so memorable *sigh* ).
---Oh, and PPS, sorry about the Whitney joke, I was just playing, didn't mean anything by it but stupid humor
From the specs, it has dolby digital out and I believe
TV can handle 5.1 surround sound. Not sure about 7.1, don't think that it can. My Denon AVR has 6.1 and 7.1 capabilities but I never bothered. Wonder that that must be like, more theatre like I suppose? If you use it often, is it worth it in your opinion?