Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple TV with A17 PRO chip
- Thread starter browser740
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
There isn't anything specifically wrong with the A17 Pro. The N3B process it was built on was viewed as expensive to make compared to the N3E process that followed (which is what the A18/Pro and M4 chips are made on) so it was thought that Apple would transition to chips made on N3E as quickly as possible since they were generally cheaper to make but it doesn't mean that N3B chips like the A17 Pro and M3 have a lot of problems.
A17Pros were made on the N3B process as outlined above. As a first gen 3 nm technology, TSMC would have passed on a lot of the capex and development costs to the per wafer price (and lower early yields would mean that each chip from a wafer was more expensive than a higher yield would allow). It's highly likely that Apple has stopped buying A17Pro chips from TSMC and has a large stockpile of them sitting around. I'm guessing that the iPad Mini was fitted with an A17Pro simply because it doesn't sell that many units and Apple had a load of slightly defective (binned) A17Pro chips that they could disable a faulty GPU core that could be used. Sadly, it would not surprise me if Apple TV 4K sells even lower numbers and Apple can continue to use this stockpile for the 4th gen model, even though it's a 2+ year old chip at this point. This might also point to a 5th gen model coming quite soon afterwards as A17Pro supplies dry up (remember the 2nd gen and 3rd gen were only a year apart)
In terms of performance, the basic Apple TV functions should have no issues with the A17 Pro. However, go beyond this and I think the shortcomings of using such an old chip start to appear
- In AI/ML tests, the A19 chips outperform the A17Pro by a decent margin, which isn't great if the Apple TV 4K is going to be the device that proesses AI requests from multiple Homepods - the A19 chips show a large boost as the Neural engine has been updated and the GPU cores now feature AI accelerators (similar to Tensor cores in nVidia GPUs)
- Although the A17Pro was pushed as the first GPU that would allow AAA gaming, it's performance was terrible with games like RE:4 remake and Death Stranding failing to hold 30 fps even at low resolution and settings (and if the AppleTV 4k uses the binned version of the chip that the iPad Mini uses, it will be even worse due having fewer GPU cores)
So overall, nothing wrong with the A17Pro but if it releases in 2026 it is just a disappointment that it doesn't use a newer chip and might be a sign that a 5th gen model might be release within a year or so.
In terms of performance, the basic Apple TV functions should have no issues with the A17 Pro. However, go beyond this and I think the shortcomings of using such an old chip start to appear
- In AI/ML tests, the A19 chips outperform the A17Pro by a decent margin, which isn't great if the Apple TV 4K is going to be the device that proesses AI requests from multiple Homepods - the A19 chips show a large boost as the Neural engine has been updated and the GPU cores now feature AI accelerators (similar to Tensor cores in nVidia GPUs)
- Although the A17Pro was pushed as the first GPU that would allow AAA gaming, it's performance was terrible with games like RE:4 remake and Death Stranding failing to hold 30 fps even at low resolution and settings (and if the AppleTV 4k uses the binned version of the chip that the iPad Mini uses, it will be even worse due having fewer GPU cores)
So overall, nothing wrong with the A17Pro but if it releases in 2026 it is just a disappointment that it doesn't use a newer chip and might be a sign that a 5th gen model might be release within a year or so.
Have there been any definitive leaks such as specific part number references in code somewhere or factory photos that support the rumour that the next Apple TV (ATV) will be getting the A17Pro?
Admittedly I haven't seen any counter-rumours about it using a different (more recent) SoC recently, everyone seems to be saying A17Pro, but unless the answer to my question above is yes then I suppose it is worth remembering that we are still dealing with rumours about the spec so it's just possible that the A17Pro rumour is wrong and something more up to date will be used.
My hope is that the ATV will evolve to be more than a streaming device and also be able to take its place as the centre of a significantly enhanced smart home setup where it can act as an AI hand-off engine for HomePods on the same network so I share the concerns about AI processing power and would love this A17Pro rumour to be wrong and for us to see something more powerful than the A17Pro in the next ATV. I'm probably going to be disappointed but until the next ATV is actually released I can still hope.
Admittedly I haven't seen any counter-rumours about it using a different (more recent) SoC recently, everyone seems to be saying A17Pro, but unless the answer to my question above is yes then I suppose it is worth remembering that we are still dealing with rumours about the spec so it's just possible that the A17Pro rumour is wrong and something more up to date will be used.
My hope is that the ATV will evolve to be more than a streaming device and also be able to take its place as the centre of a significantly enhanced smart home setup where it can act as an AI hand-off engine for HomePods on the same network so I share the concerns about AI processing power and would love this A17Pro rumour to be wrong and for us to see something more powerful than the A17Pro in the next ATV. I'm probably going to be disappointed but until the next ATV is actually released I can still hope.
Early this year, there was a short piece where Macworld reported what Gurman said about Apple's reasoning for selecting the A16 chip for the iPad update (was only chip made by TSMC in US and could avoid tariffs), and Macworld suggested that "theoretically" they could choose the A16 for the ATV update to keep the price down.
It can’t be a 2 year old chip for a new device. Even if it can power it it’s just ridiculous.
Fir me it must be at least the A18.
It has to have 4K120 at its minimum specs plus much better capabilities and features for the top tier models.
My hopes are on a 3 pronged HDMI Stick, Standard Box and Pro, behemoth of a, Box.
Everyone wins. 👍
Fir me it must be at least the A18.
It has to have 4K120 at its minimum specs plus much better capabilities and features for the top tier models.
My hopes are on a 3 pronged HDMI Stick, Standard Box and Pro, behemoth of a, Box.
Everyone wins. 👍
None of that is happening. It certainly will not be 4k120. That is useless for consuming content that is mostly 24/30/60fps.
so Apple never futureproof? or think about gamers? and all those tv's with HDMI 2.1 that carries 4k at 120 are doing that for no reason also 120Hz can more smoothly display 24fps content without that judder effect.
yes its mostly gamers needing 4K120 & i agree with the premise of what your saying
but still a 2 year old chip however impressive it is just isn't right.
many people are stating that their apple tv is sluggish now so longevity would suggest using current chips.
I haven’t seen anybody saying their latest 4K box is sluggish. Mine certainly isn’t.
4K TVs with 120 or higher refresh are for gaming, not for media content.
My 4K is incredibly annoying, especially with Apple Music. The longer I use the app will result in progressively sluggish behavior until the app crashes altogether, then rinse and repeat. If I'm listening to music for over an hour often several cycles of this crashing. This has persisted through resets and multiple updates.
That’s not good. Perhaps consider running the latest beta but just remember you can’t revert back. I’m running it with no issues…so far at least.
Apple doesn’t care about gaming on the Apple TV. All reports we’ve seen over the last few years have focused on making the device cheaper. Making it gaming focused for a small minority just to kill more widespread adoption for an expensive device makes no sense.
Apple didn't care about health until they did
Apple didn't care about tv until they did,... i could go on...
Apple didn't care about a lot of products until they did
and there is a sizable market for gaming and making Arcade, or whatever they decide to call it,
a AAA games destination, be that 1st or 3rd party, could be quite lucrative, & im pretty sure Apple care about Money and Services. this is where the (potential) Pro device will differentiate itself from 'just' a streamer Stick/Box.
Apple didn't care about tv until they did,... i could go on...
Apple didn't care about a lot of products until they did
and there is a sizable market for gaming and making Arcade, or whatever they decide to call it,
a AAA games destination, be that 1st or 3rd party, could be quite lucrative, & im pretty sure Apple care about Money and Services. this is where the (potential) Pro device will differentiate itself from 'just' a streamer Stick/Box.
The issue that Apple currently encounter is that anyone that takes gaming somewhat seriously would never game on Mac or an Apple TV. I see/hear it all the time.
Maybe if they took it seriously earlier then they might have had a chance but most will game on PC/PS and Nintendo at this point and have no desire to move ecosystems.
Maybe if they took it seriously earlier then they might have had a chance but most will game on PC/PS and Nintendo at this point and have no desire to move ecosystems.
Yeah. It's more about the software (games) capture and I find it hard to see how Apple could come from so far behind to build a big enough catalogue of AAA games to tempt people off Windows PCs and games consoles.
I'd like to be wrong because it would be fascinating to see what Apple could come up with for high-end gaming hardware over the next maybe 3 years but if it doesn't think it can build the games catalogue it's not something we're ever going to see play out (no pun intended!).
In a fantasy world where Apple did try to capture some of the high end PC gaming market, an add-on GPU connected via TB5 or some proprietary even higher bandwidth connection would be fascinating to see in terms of what Apple could come up with. Gamers are willing to pay a fortune for high-end NVidia graphics cards and Apple wasn't shy about pitching the Apple Vision Pro at a pretty high price point so I think (again in this fantasy world, I'm not claiming this would actually happen) that Apple could pitch something in the $1,500 to $3,000 price bracket or maybe a range of external GPUs with different performance levels within that price bracket. Such a device would basically be as much RAM and as many GPU cores as Apple could deliver within a chosen price point.
It is sad that I don't think we will ever see that because even building off the M5 GPU cores and the sort of memory bandwidths already seen on the M4 Max let alone what might come with M5 Pro/Max and onwards to M6 I think that Apple really could have come up with something quite impressive.
One other issue would be that a high-bandwidth interface has 2 ends so it probably wouldn't just be a case of creating one (or a range of) external GPUs, whatever Apple wanted them to connect to (MacBook, MacBook Mini, Apple TV) would probably also need extra hardware to support their side of the interface.
Anyway, for me a nice fantasy that I don't ever expect to become a reality.
I said that same thing but the skeptics do not like even thinking of this as a possibility.
What gamers? I don’t think anyone that is serious into gaming would think of an Apple TV….. Gamers that care about 4K and 120 fps likely look for PC or dedicated consoles, not an Apple TV that only has a few mobile caliber games.
I would not be so sure, considering some of the most popular games on Steam of late Megabonk, Escape from Duckov etc have been indy games that don't chase 4k and 120fps
Imagine that flop. A 4k120hz AAA gaming rigs needs 4k120hz AAA gaming performance. Even the A19 Pro is ~2.5 teraflops which it can't sustain due to thermals. But any lesser chip would just have that much worse performance.
So it would need massively more and much faster storage and memory. And a PSU and cooling solution to get that meager amount of smartphone performance out of it. Then tvOS would need a complete rework to depart from iOS and more toward MacOS for the enhancements in gaming aligned frameworks.
In the end you get something that is expensive, no games to play on it, and worse than a Mac Mini in nearly every metric.
How are we making something worse than a Mac for gaming? If this was cheap and/or easy everyone would do it, your smart tv would come equipped as a 4k120hz AAA gaming machine right out of the box.
So it would need massively more and much faster storage and memory. And a PSU and cooling solution to get that meager amount of smartphone performance out of it. Then tvOS would need a complete rework to depart from iOS and more toward MacOS for the enhancements in gaming aligned frameworks.
In the end you get something that is expensive, no games to play on it, and worse than a Mac Mini in nearly every metric.
How are we making something worse than a Mac for gaming? If this was cheap and/or easy everyone would do it, your smart tv would come equipped as a 4k120hz AAA gaming machine right out of the box.
If the new Apple TV doesn't drop tomorrow (Wednesday) then it's not coming until 2026 and will likely launch alongside the updated Siri and form a part of Apple's home offering. There's also a part of me that thinks Apple was planning a 2025 A17Pro Apple TV to help use up the leftover A17Pros (including binned versions) alongside the iPad Mini and would release a further Apple TV in 2026 with an A19 chip (in a similar way that that the 2nd and 3rd gen Apple TV 4Ks were a year apart) and now they're just thinking to scrap the 2025 model and launch the 2026 model a bit earlier in the year... As you say, a new A17Pro-powered device in 2026 is a slap in the face.
The tech for 4k120 (HDMI 2.1) came to market in 2019. Apple has had two revisions of the Apple TV 4K to add this in and hasn't done it. Bit by bit it has added HDMI 2.1 features (eARC, QMS etc), but the 40-48 Gbps bandwidth needed for 4K120 has not been one of them. 24p at 120 Hz will still judder - it's just an effect of the low frame rate on panning shots, not the 24-into-60 issue (most modern TVs will apply 5:5 pulldown to a 24p feed to display it at 120 Hz anyway even without Apple TV support)
Apple does care about gamers - but only the gamers that play low cost or free-to-play games where Appled can take a large cut of the in-app purchases.
Apple made a push for AAA games when it introduced Game Porting Toolkit and bankrolled a few Capcom games and Death Stranding. Since then it's all gone a bit stale - yes Cyberpunk and Control Launched on Mac, but these games are 5-6 years old now! We've all said that MacOS is so uninteresting to developers that Apple would likely have to buy a developer/publisher or throw money around to get some big games on MacOS at launch (and in a better state than the Assassin's Creed Shadows), but if Apple are paying any kind of attention to what is going on in gaming today, they should be paying attention to SteamOS and the Proton compatibility layer. What I have been impressed/depressed by (can't make up my mind which) is that the native Mac versions of Cyberpunk and Control only run ~10-15% faster than the Windows version running through Crossover/GPT. I think it would just be a lot easier for Apple to work more closely with Codeweavers and Steam to turn GPT into a more general compatibility layer similar to Proton, so people can just run Windows versions of games. The M5 chip gives a big boost to the GPU so it's likely that a Crossover/GPT version of a Windows game would run faster on an M5-based chip than a native Mac port of the same game running on an M4. With developers targeting the Steam Deck and likely the AMD RX7600M in the Steam Machine for at least a few years, it should be possible for M4 & M5 devices to outperform this. I suspect the main issue is Apple playing nicely and coming to some agreement with Steam about revenue splitting for Steam games sold on Mac.
Even though the A17 Pro is the first chip for AAA Gaming performance on the 15 Pro isn’t as great partily due to titanium partily throttling performance.
Mini was fitted with that Pro Chip to even further differentiate it from the budget iPad
Macworld editors say quite a lot of crap IMO. No way Apple will give the next TV the A16, they would want Apple Intelligence on all devices and the current Apple TV is one of the few iDevices left without it.
Also all iPad Minis and Apple TV’s released since September 2015 ( with the exception of the A10X TV because the Mini never came with that CPU) have had the same SoC and almost the same RAM… you’ll bet for sure the next TV will get the A17 Pro like the Mini Does currently
It’s getting the A17 Pro for sure. Make no mistake this leak comes from Apple themselves