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Apple TV with Infuse Pro or HTPC with madVR ?
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An HTPC is a "home theater pc"?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2364113-guide-building-4k-htpc-madvr.html
Why do you mean by "better"? What quality - 480, 1080p, 4k?
Do you prefer Apples or Oranges (windows)? Do you like mucking around with a PC's innards and or do you just want something that works with minimal setup? Do you want to use commercially available software with (hopefully good) support, or maybe state of the art custom software which may be somewhat unstable?
Since you are posting in a Mac forum then the most common Mac solutions are Plex and Infuse. Plex requires a Plex server, Infuse can use either a Plex, DNLA or SMB server. A Plex server can run on almost anything, from a router, NAS to a high end Mac.
There are heated discussions about which is best. My take on it is that Infuse is the best solution for just a single server and just a few libraries. The Infuse player audio quality may be the best since it supports DTS-MA. Support is excellent.
Plex is better when you are running on many platform clients, have several servers, have a lot of libraries and want to preserve playback status between devices. It has very rich sorting and searching capabilities and a good server status displays. Playback quality is a function of the capabilities of the playback device. On an Apple TV I haven't seen any major video quality differences between Infuse and Plex playing 4k HDR videos ripped with DTS-MA, although I have seem some unexplained pauses with Plex. Support is unfortunately just via forums, but the frequency of their software updates is the highest of any software I use - almost weekly.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2364113-guide-building-4k-htpc-madvr.html
Why do you mean by "better"? What quality - 480, 1080p, 4k?
Do you prefer Apples or Oranges (windows)? Do you like mucking around with a PC's innards and or do you just want something that works with minimal setup? Do you want to use commercially available software with (hopefully good) support, or maybe state of the art custom software which may be somewhat unstable?
Since you are posting in a Mac forum then the most common Mac solutions are Plex and Infuse. Plex requires a Plex server, Infuse can use either a Plex, DNLA or SMB server. A Plex server can run on almost anything, from a router, NAS to a high end Mac.
There are heated discussions about which is best. My take on it is that Infuse is the best solution for just a single server and just a few libraries. The Infuse player audio quality may be the best since it supports DTS-MA. Support is excellent.
Plex is better when you are running on many platform clients, have several servers, have a lot of libraries and want to preserve playback status between devices. It has very rich sorting and searching capabilities and a good server status displays. Playback quality is a function of the capabilities of the playback device. On an Apple TV I haven't seen any major video quality differences between Infuse and Plex playing 4k HDR videos ripped with DTS-MA, although I have seem some unexplained pauses with Plex. Support is unfortunately just via forums, but the frequency of their software updates is the highest of any software I use - almost weekly.
This is actually very simple to answer.
Are you running the AppleTV through a Lumagen processor for dynamic tone mapping? If the answer is yes, get the AppleTV. If the answer is no, a MadVR solution will blow the AppleTV out of the water when it comes to image quality (assuming your display is up to the task). If you don't plan to use dynamic tone mapping or other image processing, it doesn't matter, just get the cheaper solution.
Are you running the AppleTV through a Lumagen processor for dynamic tone mapping? If the answer is yes, get the AppleTV. If the answer is no, a MadVR solution will blow the AppleTV out of the water when it comes to image quality (assuming your display is up to the task). If you don't plan to use dynamic tone mapping or other image processing, it doesn't matter, just get the cheaper solution.
I found TV combined with Infuse to be the perfect solution for watching video from a server or other local sources.
Infuse requires a subscription to decode x265 compressed video, but Infuse’s subscription is the most reasonable one ever - I hate monthly subscription cash grabs, but I gladly signed up for Infuse’s at $7/year. Well worth it for a well supported, well-designed product.
Infuse’s user interface, the way it presents videos and seamlessly integrates with the AppleTV and Siri is what makes it worthwhile... it also does an awesome job finding metadata for thumbnails and descriptions.
TV 4K + Infuse is what I would suggest.
Infuse requires a subscription to decode x265 compressed video, but Infuse’s subscription is the most reasonable one ever - I hate monthly subscription cash grabs, but I gladly signed up for Infuse’s at $7/year. Well worth it for a well supported, well-designed product.
Infuse’s user interface, the way it presents videos and seamlessly integrates with the AppleTV and Siri is what makes it worthwhile... it also does an awesome job finding metadata for thumbnails and descriptions.
TV 4K + Infuse is what I would suggest.
It's a video processor used for all things image processing and calibration (see: http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radiancepro_details). Basically, you attach every source device to it and the output is attached to your display/projector. The processor can handle the full calibration and does things such as scaling, converting aspect ratios, handling anamorphic lenses for projectors, framerate conversion, and much more including the mentioned dynamic tone mapping. It's very common in full installations to get the best possible video quality.
MadVR is also for optimizing video quality and does dynamic mapping, but it only does it for the HTPC it's installed on. You can't use it with external devices such as AppleTV, a game console or any other playback device. An external video processor allows to attach external devices to it.
Let me point one thing out, since some things have been mentioned by others, which I think completely fail the question or the question is not the right one. MadVR is all about video processing and getting the best image quality possible. It has absolutely nothing to do with what source you're using for playback (NAS files, ISO, Plex, ...) or how you organize your library by TV shows, movies, various genres (actors, sci-fi, action, horror, etc.) or how you navigate your library. The one and only purpose of MadVR is applying specific settings for video processing. In addition you still need video playback software such as Kodi and others. The latter is what Infuse on an AppleTV does.
AppleTV with Infuse is a simple media player. You can use it to organize your library and play your media from different sources, add metadata and so on. It has nowhere near the capability to customize your video processing as MadVR has, nor does it have the quality of videoprocessing as an external processor or MadVR.
So the question is really, do you only want to organize and playback your collection? Then get the AppleTV.
Or do you want the absolute best video quality possible? Then get the HTPC and MadVR and a media player software that can organize your library (or a Lumagen in addition to an AppleTV). Just be aware, in order to take full advantage of MadVR, get a Nvidia GPU for the HTPC as some filters require a lot of processing power. Also consider, MadVR usually requires custom tweaking to get the best out of it. This is not plug & play, i.e. not downloading, installing and you're done. You will have to tweak settings.
I'm curious – how much better can it be? Is this difference in quality for all kinds of sources – for example a 1080p Blu-ray – or is the difference more easily seen with 4K HDR material?
Would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison.
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How much better depends on what you're looking at. From barely visible to night and day. That is assuming your display device doesn't screw things up. Some displays have further processing that can't be turned off and mess things up. With projectors, lenses that soften the image can mess things up, so can eshift/4k enhancement. And yes, it's for all kind of source material.
As far as comparisons, the best way is to try it yourself, since it's calibrated specifically to the performance of your display. So watching it on another display will not yield the same results. Also, you won't see how it performs in motion when looking at pictures. For tone mapping, start here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-d...mproving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector.html
But that's just tone mapping, there's much more in MadVR and a processor. There's also alot of material and info in the Doom9 forums. Just do a google search and you'll be busy for weeks if not months.
But again, this is not a plug & play thing. It requires full calibration and lots of tweaking.
Personally I have bought the ATV 4K because of Infuse. And I never regretted my choice. You plug the ATV, install Infuse (Pro), build an SMB server with all your videos organised at file system level, connect to it via Infuse and you watch anything you have. With Hi-Res audio (TrueHD and DTS-MA), 4K, HDR (not sure about Dolby Vision, since my TV doesn't support it) and rarely a glitch. The support via web is also excellent.
I can also use Infuse to stream my videos, HEVC or less, 4K, 1080p or anything else, HDR included, from my iPhone to my S-L-O-W 1080p SDR Fire Stick TV via a cheap app I bought, AirReceiver. Subtitles work as well. Controlling the video with the Fire TV controller (unlike with ChromeCast).
And Infuse will work with any TV supporting Airplay 2. It isn't always perfect, I have to duplicate the screen to make it working with AirReceiver, and I had many issues lately because I have all my Apple devices on beta OS. Still it's an option. Plex (just to add heat to the discussion) wasn't a solution, too laggy is an understatement. Still nothing forbids to install a Plex server using the same SMB libraries for Infuse, adding a plugin that keeps everything in synch via Trakt.
About HTPC I know little to nothing. Because only the idea of using a (Windows!!) computer to stream instead of a little box gives me nightmares already. And then if one really wants quality is better buying an UHD BR player.
I can also use Infuse to stream my videos, HEVC or less, 4K, 1080p or anything else, HDR included, from my iPhone to my S-L-O-W 1080p SDR Fire Stick TV via a cheap app I bought, AirReceiver. Subtitles work as well. Controlling the video with the Fire TV controller (unlike with ChromeCast).
And Infuse will work with any TV supporting Airplay 2. It isn't always perfect, I have to duplicate the screen to make it working with AirReceiver, and I had many issues lately because I have all my Apple devices on beta OS. Still it's an option. Plex (just to add heat to the discussion) wasn't a solution, too laggy is an understatement. Still nothing forbids to install a Plex server using the same SMB libraries for Infuse, adding a plugin that keeps everything in synch via Trakt.
About HTPC I know little to nothing. Because only the idea of using a (Windows!!) computer to stream instead of a little box gives me nightmares already. And then if one really wants quality is better buying an UHD BR player.
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Anything you describe can be done with a HTPC as well. I agree about Windows, but using a HTPC is not about having a normal streaming box.
And this is plain wrong, sorry. Any streaming box can provide the same quality as a regular player, ATV4k, Nvidia Shield, etc. As I've pointed out before, a HTPC running MadVR or a dedicated video processor will allow to optimize the quality further than any streaming box or dedicated player can. This is just another step up in quality. What a HTPC does is save you around around $6.5k for a Radiance processor to get an AppleTV, Shield, etc. to the same level of quality as a HTPC. There will be an external MadVR processor soon which will also be an option, but I'd be surprised if it's under $4k.
That is all cool and fine, don't get me wrong. But what most people usually stream are compressed versions of the original (master?) UHD video. Many times rips of UHD BR versions, since we are talking about Infuse.
I've admitted my ignorance already about HTPCs, so I'd ask: what real benefits could I get over the UHD BR version? Unless one is streaming an UHD BR ISO (or any other perfect clone), so yes, I agree the quality of a UHD BR player isn't necessarily superior. But in general? With the UHD BR player one knows to always get the highest available bitrate, and there is no algorithm that can recover the data lost due to lossy compression. Honest question.
You can get better motion handling, dynamic tone mapping, artefact reduction/removal, aspect ratio conversion, processing for anamorphic lenses and so on and so forth. Even if your source is already the native resolution of your display device and the native frame rate, dynamic tone mapping makes a night and day difference, because the whole thing is calibrated specifically for your display chain. For lower resolution sources, you can select different interpolation algorithms and so on. Have a look at the thread I linked in a previous post and go from there. This is not specific for HTPCs, as good video processor in the chain will do the same/similar things.
Check out the first two messages on page 3 of this thread. Absolutely sums up my experience. Once it's up, running and fully calibrated, there's no way back. I've never heard of a person going back from MadVR/Lumagen system to one without it.
Your reports are fascinating however, what kind of monitor screen would show all of these differences? A £30,000 Sony screen or Apples new screen?
I'm seriously not convinced that any domestic TV screen will show the difference. iTunes 4K Dolby Vision film lots incredible on the LG B7 OLED that we use for our weekly film night whenever i'm in the country.
Unless you like tinkering and really making life over complicated for zero reason, I can't appreciate what you are doing.
Watching a iTunes film in 4K with Dolby Vision and frame rate set to 'match', I find the picture to be silky smooth. It looks great and being honest, we then all enjoy the film with great friends, candle light and beautiful, nutritious food. What I certainly don't do is look for picture grain in detail or banding or compression artefacts. To me, that's not what film enjoyment is about.
Your way sounds harder than when I studied for my MSc and is kind of the exact opposite of the Apple ethos where everything is kept as simple, easy to use / humane as possible and 'just works'. (plus of course, multi platform in this decade is essential to me). And that's how something as basic and simple as watching a film should be.
Any decent display will show the difference. Take a LG OLED, Samsung QLED, Sony Z/900/800 series, TCL, projectors from Sony, JVC, BENQ, Epson, etc. Of course a £30k Sony will show it too, just like a Barco Thor or the upcoming Christie Eclipse which will probably be in the $600k range. But it doesn't have to be that expensive. A $200 TV from some non-name Chinese manufacturer... probably not.
Nothing to be convinced about. Do a A/B comparison, done.
Of course you can watch a film that way, display blue colors in green and what not. It all works. If you don't care about quality, don't waste your time. Anyone who cares about quality will calibrate their system or simply have someone do it for them. Anyone who wants the best possible quality is adding a video processor or HTPC with MadVR. Whatever rocks your boat, do it. This thread started with the question for higher picture quality and if you want the best with consumer electronics this is the way to go and makes a huge difference to just plugging things in. As I've pointed out, MadVR in particular requires experience and tweaking. If you don't want to waste your time, hire a professional to do it. Most people who have done it consider hiring a professional calibrator a worthwhile investment. But again, if you don't care about image quality just keep watching and don't think about it.
I'd say yes. Years ago I used to run a VT30 with an external processor and thought it was worth it. Just keep in mind, your display has a 8-bit panel and is limited to Rec709. What you will get is better scaling for non-native sources and better HDR to SDR mapping.Do you think my Panasonic V20 plasma TV from 2010 will benefit?
If you do a search on the Kodi forums, there should be a couple of threads about HDR to SDR with comparisons to MadVR from early this year when they introduced Kodi 18.
MadVR Envy press release is out: http://madvr.com/EnvyPressRelease.pdf
Very disappointed I have to say. It's now much more consumer friendly with regular menus and so on, which is a good thing. But on the other hand, it seems like it's a HTPC running in a silent case, booting into their software. Probably based on a stripped down version of Windows or Windows Embedded. You'll never get to see Windows that way, which is a plus. There's a Nvidia 2080Ti in there and only has a single HDMI input, so for anything more, an external HDMI switch has to be added and the question arises of how it can be automated. They're at CEDIA showing it on a lousy LG 55" OLED screen which is less than ideal for a proper demo. Given the price, the Lumagen seems like a better option and personally I'd rather fiddle around with a HTPC. Also JVC is adding new firmware to their projectors with dynamic tone mapping, hopefully other will follow and the quality of things like MadVR/Lumagen can be achived in a display device itself in the future.
Very disappointed I have to say. It's now much more consumer friendly with regular menus and so on, which is a good thing. But on the other hand, it seems like it's a HTPC running in a silent case, booting into their software. Probably based on a stripped down version of Windows or Windows Embedded. You'll never get to see Windows that way, which is a plus. There's a Nvidia 2080Ti in there and only has a single HDMI input, so for anything more, an external HDMI switch has to be added and the question arises of how it can be automated. They're at CEDIA showing it on a lousy LG 55" OLED screen which is less than ideal for a proper demo. Given the price, the Lumagen seems like a better option and personally I'd rather fiddle around with a HTPC. Also JVC is adding new firmware to their projectors with dynamic tone mapping, hopefully other will follow and the quality of things like MadVR/Lumagen can be achived in a display device itself in the future.