Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple TV Won't Support Hi-Res Lossless at Launch, AirPods Max Wired Playback 'Will Not Be Completely Lossless'

B/D said:
Yes, the Apple TV support lossless up to 24/48. What it doesn´t support its high resolution lossless audio (192/24).

Lossless CD quality is 16/44.
Click to expand...
I've been a regular follower of the recording trade magazines & forums for years. Very few studios are actually working at 192, so that hi-res music is going to simply be up-mixed from 96 or below anyway. (last I checked, 44 was still king, followed closely by 48 or 96)

EDIT: Here's a 2019 poll from the venerable Pro Tools Expert site: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pr...d-at-when-recording-and-mixing-in-your-studio
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos and B/D
Basically Apple is saying that technically nothing is truly lossless because once you try to convert the digital signal to analog there is always going to be some minimal, probably imperceivable, loss somewhere. Even running along the cable there might be something. Also your speakers are not able to recreate the sound 100% as expected. Plus the air in your room will impact the sound hitting your ears, reflecting off surfaces, absorbed by furniture, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos, citysnaps and B/D
Some very knowledgeable people in this area told me, that anything above 44.1kHz is kinda ******** as it doesn't contain any more data we could hear.


Someone explained it in a video if you prefer that way:

Short version: You need twice the sample rate of the highest frequency you want to capture. Humans can hear from 20-20000Hz. So 40kHz would be the ideal and maximum useful sample rate. For some technical reasons, it's 44.1kHz now.
Recording in 96kHz or even 192kHz just adds additional disadvantages. Bigger files, more compute power needed, and quality loss because of aliasing and ultrasonics getting captured. We cannot hear them but they cause troubles in the playback systems that (slightly degrades quality).

What does make a difference is 16 bit vs 24 bit.

And even then. AAC 256 VBR (what iTunes and Apple Music uses) is very close to lossless. I personally can't hear the difference (I already tested it with some blind A/B test). If you can, you might profit from it. But most people won't notice even if their ears are good enough. Typical headphones, speakers and sometimes even DACs used by consumers are not good enough to playback the additional details in lossless audio.

I don't get the big fuss about it. The few that actually invested into expensive equipment for lossless audio, will be happy that Apple will offer it at no additional cost.
For 99% of people it's just a waste of bandwidth.
 
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: michaelant, peanuts_of_pathos, Cayden and 6 others
It’s like it was a last minute decision to launch the hi-fi tier, and only now are they thinking through the implications like needing to update HomePod and Apple TV 4K to support it (possibly even based on public reaction to the announcements).
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
neuropsychguy said:
Have you done a long, blinded test like this?

Is your audio system really ready for lossless?

Do an ABX test in your browser, and see if you can tell the difference between lossless and lossy audio
abx.digitalfeed.net abx.digitalfeed.net

I’m nowhere near your level, since I’m only an amateur musician (been playing and performing for 30+ years), and I cannot tell the difference. I’m at chance level on the tests. Granted, I’m not using any professional level audio equipment but I used AKG K553 MKII headphones (not professional level but also not low end) and couldn’t tell lossy from lossless (at least for >=128 kbps).
Click to expand...
It's funny how often people here who insist that they hear the difference like day and night are simply asked to do this test and not ONE is getting back with a feedback on this. Seems to have its reason ... 😉
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos, Cayden and B/D
lars666 said:
It's funny how often people here who insist that they hear the difference like day and night are simply asked to do this test and not ONE is getting back with a feedback on this. Seems to have its reason ... 😉
Click to expand...
Agreed. But...


Starting with a lossless file instead of a lossy one is a good thing, particularly in the era of bluetooth headphones.


Regardless of the fact that if we can hear the difference or not, this was inevitable, as the internet connections and infrastructures keep improving over the years. Lossy audio was always a compromise solution. Is not here to stay.


I don´t understand why to argue about this. A higher quality source is always a good thing.

Amazon, Spotify, Apple, Deezer, Tidal... all of them will leave lossy audio behind completely at some point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JeffPerrin, SpringKid, peanuts_of_pathos and 4 others
Seems like a lot to go through to add this feature and make it near impossible to get the benefits unless there’s going to be huge updates at WWDC-thats what I’m assuming (hoping?) will happen. Why make a new Apple TV knowing this was coming and make it incapable? tvOS 15 will hopefully fix this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
Once again the red headed step child dept that is AppleTV, drops the ball or is out of touch. First they roll back 120hz support touted at the event. Now no HQ Lossless.

So really the new ATV is a remote.

AppleTv Department..

9D2BB833-7DE9-4081-9A5B-19F8440D454E.jpeg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos, decypher44 and Jus711
I remember people whining about Apple pushing bluetooth over wired. MOST normal people can't tell that much of an audio difference. Most people who claim to, are not being honest.

The people who CAN usually are professional artists who have spent decades tweaking their style. Those people are a very tiny majority. Those people won't be using normal devices. Those people are not Apple's target audience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos and lars666
ThatGuyInLa said:
Once again the red headed step child dept that is AppleTV, drops the ball or is out of touch. First they roll back 120hz support touted at the event. Now no HQ Lossless.

So really the new ATV is a remote.
Click to expand...

ALAC 24/48 IS HQ Lossless. Lossless starts a 16/44 (CD quality).

To enjoy 192/24 Apple Music on Macs and IOS devices you will need an external usb DAC anyway. Is mandatory, as the native built in DAC doesn´t support it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
kmann1983 said:
I remember people whining about Apple pushing bluetooth over wired. MOST normal people can't tell that much of an audio difference. Most people who claim to, are not being honest.

The people who CAN usually are professional artists who have spent decades tweaking their style. Those people are a very tiny majority. Those people won't be using normal devices. Those people are not Apple's target audience.
Click to expand...

You mean a very tiny minority
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
ct2k7 said:
Makes sense though. I don't understand why they discontinued the HomePod though.
Click to expand...
Could it be that they're just not selling well?

I just checked, and they're still in stock at many Apple Stores nearby. I can still buy one right now even though they stopped making them a while back.

If they're selling so poorly that existing stock has lasted this long, that might be why?
 
  • Like
Reactions: sean+mac and peanuts_of_pathos
MacRumors said:
Apple Music will also be gaining support for Spatial Audio in June. Based on Dolby Atmos, this feature will provide an immersive three-dimensional audio experience that will make music sound like it is coming from all around you.
Click to expand...
I’ve been really enjoying this thread, but surprised nobody is talking about this other news. All this concern about lossless and if you don’t like that, a new feature to distort the signal completely.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos and Paulio
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back