The EU is just Belgium, Germany, and Ireland? I thought it was more… maybe it shrunk?
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Apple Under Pressure to Remove Geo-Blocking Restrictions in the EU
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So, thanks to the UE, Apple said over 10 years ago that Lightning would be the connector for the next 10 years? And then, on that 10 year schedule, switched to the USB-C connector that they created and submitted to the standards bodies to ensure that there was a strong USB-C market?
Tiny, third party app stores, ABSOLUTELY something that wouldn’t have happened without the UE. USB-C? Unless the UE was on the team that was working with Intel on creating it AND forced Apple to say, over 10 years ago, that Lightning would be the connector for the next 10 years, it doesn’t align with reality.
Yeah, geoblocking is literally how the EU does business.
I think there’s little Apple can do as long as the DMA is enacted in a “whatever I think it means” way. The best example is how the iPad does NOT meet the documented criteria for “gatekeeper”, but “well, we just feel it should be a gatekeeper anyway”. I think Apple knows that trying to get any logic out of Vestager is a non-starter and, once she messed up an internal EU deal, the writing was on the wall as she lost confidence. I wouldn’t doubt Apple’s just running out the clock on her and hoping to deal with an individual that does not have reducing the profits of US companies as a mantra.I look at Indonesia and how they’re going to obtain 100 million or more in investment because they refuse to allow sales of the iPhone 16 until Apple capitulates. I see how China will refuse to allow any new 5G capable iPhones in the region unless they support RCS Universal Profile 2.4. Then I see how the EU is not willing to do anything NEARLY as substantive as those regions and they’re scratching their heads wondering why the result they get from Apple is not what those other regions achieve.
If they seriously want to see changes, they should reject Apple doing business in the region until the changes they want are made. Unfortunately, one can’t even look at the letter of he DMA and know what the EU wants.
China doesn’t need Apple. Indonesia doesn’t need Apple. You can tell because those regions are willing to forego Apple doing business in the region until they get what they want. The EU knows, just like everyone else in the world, that the majority of profits made on mobile are via iPhones. Apple’s marketshare in the EU is tiny, yes, but the number of dollars that flow to EU coffers via taxes and other fees belie their size. That the EU is unwilling to restrict trade to Apple shows how much they need Apple to continue to operate in the region. They just want to cut Apple’s profits and shift those to companies in the region because there’s very little chance of growing revenue in any other way.
Where do Memorandum of Understanding’s fit into this? All tech companies in the world ignored the MoU suggesting they standardize on microUSB connectors in the region when they decided to standardize on USB-C. Then they flipped to requiring USB-C, long after it was obvious that’s where everyone was going anyway.
Nice straw man. But you know what, why don't you list the member states that have come out explicitly against this first since you're invoking them in your argument.
A MOU is a statement of mutual intent, but is not legally binding. If the MOU is widely ignored (which seems to be the case in your example), then the EU can consider a regulation or directive to deal with it, which exactly what it did - it passed a regulation. The change from Micro USB to USB C would most likely have been in order to more closely reflect realities in the ground.
Also is a prime example of why the EU shouldn’t be regulating the connectors put on phones. Imagine if they had been successful with Micro-USB. We’d be stuck with it forever.
We’ll never get a better connector than USB-C now, there’s no incentive for anyone to develop one. Just because government bureaucrats think they know better than those designing cutting-edge technology.
To be fair, China did not specifically targeted Apple for RCS messaging. The government did require all new phone sold need to be support RCS and of course this includes iPhone.
EU has done lots of meaningful things, this including require USB-C on iPhone, open up iOS to third party payment methods and third party App Store etc. And of course, Apple complied with all.
I keep going back to revise my reply. it has not been an easy one to craft.
On one hand, this is not a political forum. I witnessed how Trump handled his 4 years as US president from 2016 to 2020, and I know there are people hurting (and who will hurt) from him being back in office. At the same time, what's done is done. He will be president (unless somebody here knows something I don't), and it doesn't make sense to not take this into consideration when discussing Apple matters moving forward.
I acknowledge there will be times when I sound like I am secretly happy that Trump won the elections. I am not here to gloat, and I am not here to break down every one of his policy proposals and the political and societal ramifications, or condemn him for it. I am simply here to talk Apple.
The main reason why the EU has been able to get away with as much as it did is because the Biden administration pretty much much turned its back on Apple. They even turned to the EU for ideas on how to go after Apple and other Big Tech companies. 2024 admittedly wasn't a very good year for Apple as far as lawsuits went. Let's see what 2025 brings.
The EU may not need Apple, but they for sure need access to US technology. Technology that the US was able to deny Huawei via sanctions.
Trump ran on a pro-America message. What that ultimately means is still anyone's guess, but my first thought is that Big Tech could start laying the groundwork for the US to apple pressure to water down or even break apart the DMA. Apple currently does not seem to be as "hated" in Trump's eyes as Google or Facebook and is probably the best company to bring this issue up with the Trump administration (Tim Cook likely will approach Trump about dismissing the antitrust investigation, so he may as well just go all the way and bring up the DMA and the EU fine while at it).
If anyone needed a reason for why Tim Cook ought to stay on as CEO for the next 4 years, this will be the best one yet.
Finally, you are right in that Apple likely won't pull out of the EU except in the most extreme of outcomes. There's also more than one way to skin a cat. It's increasingly clear that regulators, be it from the US or the EU, don't care about consumers. It's not enough to simply identify and correct problematic behaviour. Both wish to diminish and destroy the value of what these tech companies have invested countless resources in building, with nary a consideration for the impact to the end user experience.
I don't deny that Big Tech can be problematic, but when the "remedies" being put forth by the DMA and the DoJ seem borne more out of spite and jealousy, I guess I am just going to have to be prepared for a 2025 where I find myself increasingly defending not just Apple, but also Google, Microsoft, heck, even Facebook.
Strange bedfellows indeed.
There will surely be better connectors with technologies that haven’t even been thought of yet and I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple was working on it.
That’s why Apple continues to fight the requirement long after having shipped devices with USB-C. The next connector should be brought to market by the folks that brought USB-C to market, not the folks that wanted to stick the entirety of the EU on an outdated port that lacked the features and voltage that group of companies KNEW was going to be required in the near future.Third party payment methods and App Store? Yes. USB-C, no. Apple had a 10 year timeline after switching from the 30 pin connector to Lighting and indicating that Lightning would be the connector for the next decade. At the same time, they were developing the USB-C connector and working with Intel and the standards bodies to have it enshrined as a standard. Why? So, at the end of that 10 years, there would be a robust, well supported, non-proprietary solution they could migrate to.
The EU regulators on their BEST day couldn’t have orchestrated anything near as effective or fit for purpose as USB-C. We’re fortunate that the world’s tech companies ignored them and I hope, for EU citizens sake, hopefully once Vestager is gone, more logical heads not bent on reducing the profits of US companies will prevail.
Sanction in my opinion is the worst way to solve problems and it shows the arrogance of American politicians.
Huawei is able to produce its own 5nm chips even with sanctions and it is only matter of time that Chinese will have its own sub-5nm chips.
Both China and Europe has large enough market to has it own technology to strives. And we both know, both Chinese and Europeans are capable to develop its own technologies.
The only outcome that sanctions will bring is incompatible technology from different regions for same thing and it is only American companies to loss.
I am not going to discuss tariffs and all other craps that Trump administrations will bring. You only need to look at who is he nominated for each cabinet positions. Next four years going to be chaotic and lots of people will hurt.
I'm not sure I agree with this victimhood narrative considering large parts of the Irish tax saga, for example, happened during Trump's first presidency.
Additionally, this is just one more side to a conflict about market access and regulation that has been going on forever that neither side has been able to really 'win' in any meaningful way.
I absolutely agree that the incoming administration is unpredictable and may as well deploy some very strong criticism eventually, but I wouldn't bank on the US starting a trade war over Apple's App Store and frankly I'm not sure Apple would want them to.
On what basis would the US deny technology here? In the case of China the national security arguments are somewhat convincing, but it the US starts applying sanctions because it doesn't like that other countries regulate their own market this may turn into a pyrrhic victory.
For all its might, I think the US needs to walk a very fine line here because the top priority is still having markets as open as possible so US tech can actually sell its products.
The Apple/Google duopoly is almost impossible to topple under current conditions due to network effects, but it's not like they are impossible to replace.
I would wager that this is politically impossible for the EU without undermining its standing as having an independent regulatory policy, which is why it won't happen.
Particularly because the DMA doesn't actually impact Apple or Google's ability to make money. They will kick and scream but all of them seem to comply overall.
Besides, the US is not the only big market and others, particularly the EU and China, will retaliate, which is exactly what happened previously.
It also shows the over-reliance of the world on American technology, because sanctions are only ever as effective as the country has leverage. Most of the world runs on windows, android, Google services, iOS and macOS. The majority of social media and online services - Facebook, Twitter, instagram, WhatsApp, Amazon, even Visa and Mastercard, they are all US companies as well. And guess what? Most of them conveniently come under fire from the DMA / DSA.
Is it arrogance if it can be adequately backed up with action?
All this while the EU braces itself for a potential trade war, while having to take the US’ place in NATO and the war with Ukraine, rising prices, while still reeling from COVID overspending.
The question then is whether the EU will find it worth its while to develop localised versions of competing services like what China has done (WeChat, Baidu, Alibaba), as well as their own homegrown tech giant (Huawei). But the problem also is that thanks to the EU’s own legislation, it has also pretty much hobbled its own tech enterprises and ensured that no viable alternative will ever arise. So, unlikely, because unlike China, I don’t see the EU putting all their weight into propping up one homegrown tech company (which would ironically run counter to the intent of the DMA, because you can’t replace Apple without growing to be big like Apple).
This is what I mean when I said time and time again that there is good in bad, and bad in good. On paper, the DMA seems to want to promote fair competition (or at least the EU’s interpretation thereof). They also got their third party app stores and their emulators and their ability to replace and delete stock apps.
So far so good. But actions also tend to have consequences (often unanticipated and unforeseen).
We may start to see them soon enough.
Or I could be wrong. I hope I am, but I am also not here to make politically correct statements.
Gruber said it best.
The iOS Continental Drift Widens
What’s happening with Apple Intelligence and iPhone Screen Sharing this year is what I expect to happen with every new product or service Apple creates that integrates with iOS: they will come late, or never, to the EU.
daringfireball.net
I suppose you can argue that thanks to the dominant position wielded by Google and Apple, iOS could literally come with no new features for the next 10 years and there would still not be a third viable competitor. But an attack on Apple's property right is an attack on Apple's property rights, and at the same time, it's clear that the DMA makes it so that Apple finds it harder or nigh impossible to monetise their own platform as they deem fit (eg: sideloading would allow developers to avoid paying Apple 30%) or fully reap the benefits of expanding their ecosystem, so it's not entirely true that there is zero impact on Apple's ability to make money.
Tim Cook did reportedly mention the EU fine to Donald Trump at some point, at least.
Donald Trump says Apple boss Tim Cook called him with EU concerns
The EU ordered Apple to pay Ireland billions in unpaid taxes in September.
www.bbc.com
Make of it what you will. 😛
The EU is not capable of developing their own technologies, though. The creation of robust sustainable technologies require that companies take risks and be able to benefit if those risks pay off. The regulatory structure in the EU has driven off all tech companies because they don’t know how to foster and support tech companies.
The very best the EU would ever be able to do is switch from sourcing their tech with US companies to sourcing their tech with Chinese companies.
Tim Cook did reportedly mention the EU fine to Donald Trump at some point, at least.
Donald Trump says Apple boss Tim Cook called him with EU concerns
The EU ordered Apple to pay Ireland billions in unpaid taxes in September.
Make of it what you will. 😛
Of course he did and of course big tech doesn't like being regulated, no one does.
But plenty of sectors are being regulated and a long line of administrations have huffed and puffed, agriculture off the top of my head but there's surely plenty others, but that doesn't mean that regulation will go away just because the next administration starts making noise.
Gruber said it best.
The iOS Continental Drift Widens
What’s happening with Apple Intelligence and iPhone Screen Sharing this year is what I expect to happen with every new product or service Apple creates that integrates with iOS: they will come late, or never, to the EU.
If the DMA had been in effect 10 years ago, I don’t think Apple Watch would have been available in the EU until and unless the EC said it was permitted.
If Windows had been as locked down as Apple's ecosystem and Microsoft had released the Zune earlier, Apple likely would have never been able to profit as much from the iPod and then iPhone as they did.
I suppose the EU, at least informally, will point to something like the law that forces ByteDance to divest and question on what grounds the US is objecting to the EU regulating its own market.
Vestager’s metric for success was whether or not the profits of US companies were reduced. The intent was not to pass a comprehensive well thought out and clear regulation that companies could EASILY follow, it was to craft a regulation that would lower the profits, very specifically, of US companies. The whole thing was rushed because Vestager knew her time was running out and just wanted to throw anything out there, just to start penalizing US companies.
I mean, if the EU wanted Apple and Google to divest, THAT would actually make more sense than the DMA. The EU can’t have them divest, though, because with alost all the tech companies based outside the region, there’s no one for them to divest TO! There’s ASML… and that’s it.
4K Blu-ray and console games have been region free for years.
Apple and Google have no issue with geoblocking going away. It's governments around the world who ban apps and want ring fencing. Can't do anything about it. Different cultures have different ways.
No, Blu-ray discs are not region free in Europe, but some titles are released as Region ABC, which means they can be played in all regions:
- Region A: North, Central, and South America, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia
- Region B: Europe (EU), Africa, Middle East, Australia, and New Zealand
- Region C: Russia, India, China, and the rest of the world
- Region ABC: Playable in all regions