Just how do you do that relaibly with two drives?
Dave
Wouldn't you need at leat three drives for that to work?
Dave
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Apple Updates Mac Mini and Adds Server Option
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Apple agrees with you and offers a 4tb raid box as an accessory on the Mac Mini Server page. That makes for a pretty cheap server solution in comparison to a Windows 2003 Server solution. I think this is a great sleeper product that will find it's own market of new uses, much like the Mac Mini itself has done. THis is a full blown SL Server system including licenses.
Hey man...HP makes some good monitorsThis Apple not HP. If you want HP Wal-mart has plenty for you.
I need to tell my media centre pc that - since the files are stored on my WHS....
Not to mention the Itunes media server included in the HP WHS....
WHS is based on "Windows Server 2003" - so the "enterprise class server OS" label most certainly applies there as well.
...and the $500 HP server has replicated storage, hot swap drives, ...
If you're familiar with WHS, you'll wonder why anyone can compare slapping OSX server on a mini with WHS. Clearly Apple's positioning them for completely different scenarios.
Cause slapping SL Server on a Mac mini is better... and here's how I got there: Unlike WHS being 'based on' Win2k3, the new mini has the full blown SL Server OS, a Core2Duo instead of a Celeron, nVidia 9400M graphics - dual head up to 2560x1600px (not that you'll need that in a server closet), FW800, WiFi & Bluetooth, analog/digital audio I/O, 5 USB, dual 500GB drives for out-of-the-box RAID options instead of HP's single 1TB HD, plus Mac reliability and ease of use.What the mini doesn't have is eSATA and 4 drive bays, and it's a pain in the butt to open. But those are trade-offs I can live with.
Replicated data is nothing more than wasting drive space by copying your data to another drive (but what if you only have the 1 drive?!?) in the server. Might as well just have a backup drive and do proper backups, and/or set up a proper RAID set.
I don't own one of HP's "Media Smart" servers, but I have investigated them thoroughly, and I'm not all that impressed.
I will give them kudos for going to what must have been some effort to make the simplified Win Server able to manage media from other platforms, especially taping into the existing iPhoto and iTunes libraries. That is pretty slick.
Absolutely spot on!!!
This is the exact 100% feature set that is sorely lacking. Not sure how many households have multiple macs. But more than 2 and its a pain in every way to sync/administer them. Build these features and you have my business.
This is the exact 100% feature set that is sorely lacking. Not sure how many households have multiple macs. But more than 2 and its a pain in every way to sync/administer them. Build these features and you have my business.
Actually that IS what they're offering. What do you think Snow Leopard Server OS does? All of the things you just listed.
iTunes serving is done by iTunes. Unlike some other platforms, there is no need to write a completely different app for something the existing app is designed to do. That's just a waste of development resources and complicates something that doesn't need complicating. Same for iPhoto.
That is EXACTLY my point. Don't you think people who buy this server now might like USB3 or Light Peak? With network expansion they could get it after the fact. But they can't get it in the future, because the mac mini has no network expansion. And just because Apple dropped it from the 15" macbook pro doesn't mean that expresscard is dead. That's silly. I only mentioned expresscard because it is currently the best way to expand your high-speed connectors in a small form-factor computer. USB dongles are too slow, and PCI express is too large. If light peak or something else beats expresscard in the future, then so be it, but that doesn't change the fact that network expansion is important and that the current mac mini lacks a satisfactory solution.
What is a media server.
I've seen that basic question many times already in this thread. Along with that question is how does it vary from a file server.
First; a media server is a storage device designed to handle large numbers of usually large files reliably. If the media is video you could easily have hundreds of multi gigabyte files. So in reality we are talking terabyte disk sizes. Reliability implies some sort of parity based RAID.
Second; a media server can handle the transmission of those files to other machines for playback or can present the media to users itself. This implies a server with a reasonably good GPU card and audio support, something many file servers don't have.
Third; media servers only have to support a limited number of clients so things like transfer rate of drives isn't all that important. Well other than not going off into never never land when transferring large files.
So that is thre things that a distinguish a media server from a file server. The new Mini server does some of these things really well except for the capacity issue item. This is very frustrating and no an external FireWire device is not a alternative.
So what we have here is a very modest low risk entry by Apple into the small server industry. It is a good but limited offering.
What Apple really needs is a small server with a bunch of bays for the 2.5" sized drives. This doesn't have to be much bigger than todays Mini actually. Access should be from the front and the RAID feature should be as easy as Drobos. In fact Apple ought to just purchase Drobo out right and integrate the tech right into Mac OS. By the way front access is for easy drive repair/replacement.
The back should not change much but another Ethernet port is needed or if it is ready Light Peak. Light Peak or the second Ethernet port could be dedicated to a second storage volume. Yeah the machine gets stretched a bit but from the front it is close to the same size.
Oh by the way guys a second Ethernet port has more uses than just network security. Besides storage solutions it can be very useful in isolating things like production machinery and keeping that heavy and continous traffic off corporate networks.
Dave
I've seen that basic question many times already in this thread. Along with that question is how does it vary from a file server.
First; a media server is a storage device designed to handle large numbers of usually large files reliably. If the media is video you could easily have hundreds of multi gigabyte files. So in reality we are talking terabyte disk sizes. Reliability implies some sort of parity based RAID.
Second; a media server can handle the transmission of those files to other machines for playback or can present the media to users itself. This implies a server with a reasonably good GPU card and audio support, something many file servers don't have.
Third; media servers only have to support a limited number of clients so things like transfer rate of drives isn't all that important. Well other than not going off into never never land when transferring large files.
So that is thre things that a distinguish a media server from a file server. The new Mini server does some of these things really well except for the capacity issue item. This is very frustrating and no an external FireWire device is not a alternative.
So what we have here is a very modest low risk entry by Apple into the small server industry. It is a good but limited offering.
What Apple really needs is a small server with a bunch of bays for the 2.5" sized drives. This doesn't have to be much bigger than todays Mini actually. Access should be from the front and the RAID feature should be as easy as Drobos. In fact Apple ought to just purchase Drobo out right and integrate the tech right into Mac OS. By the way front access is for easy drive repair/replacement.
The back should not change much but another Ethernet port is needed or if it is ready Light Peak. Light Peak or the second Ethernet port could be dedicated to a second storage volume. Yeah the machine gets stretched a bit but from the front it is close to the same size.
Oh by the way guys a second Ethernet port has more uses than just network security. Besides storage solutions it can be very useful in isolating things like production machinery and keeping that heavy and continous traffic off corporate networks.
Dave
People forget that Apple is also a software company.
I think those who knock the Mac mini server do so only on its hardware specs. I agree that the server with OSX server software is a great deal.
Server Wars
So, the sixty-four thousand dollar question is, which approach provides the best small group, low cost server solution?
HP Media Server with MS Home Server and 3.5 inch raid drives
or
Apple Mac Mini Server with attached raid FW drives with OS/X Server?
And I disagree they are meant for different markets; I think they are both competing for the same customer space.
So, the sixty-four thousand dollar question is, which approach provides the best small group, low cost server solution?
HP Media Server with MS Home Server and 3.5 inch raid drives
or
Apple Mac Mini Server with attached raid FW drives with OS/X Server?
And I disagree they are meant for different markets; I think they are both competing for the same customer space.
I don't need the optical drive. I got a external one already. I also want OS X server. I want it in a small package that can be easily hidden from view. (Like where I hid my external hard drive and Ethernet switch). I could use the dual 500 GB Hd's to back up my PB to and run it as a desktop or plug my external HD into it and back up my PB to it. Then I would just need to upgrade my internet connection so I could run my websites from it.
It also seems like it would be really quiet too.
WHS on a bigger computer with louder fans just won't work. Now I just need to get a miniserve.
It also seems like it would be really quiet too.
WHS on a bigger computer with louder fans just won't work. Now I just need to get a miniserve.
The MacMini Server has the option to buy a MacBook Air external SuperDrive. AFAIK these require an upgraded USB port to work which is why until now they only work on the MBA, so does the MiniServer have upgraded USB ports, or have they changed the external SuperDrive so it'll work on normal USB (presumably with an extra plug on the cable)?
Thanks for the description! When you say it needs a good GPU, is that just for when it is presenting the media itself? If it is just sending out files to another machine for viewing, does the power of the server matter, either CPU or GPU?
The external superdrive does not require any special USB port, or any extra power. It was the IDE to USB bridge which used custom firmware, so it should work fine.
Thanks, I'd read it on a few web pages from Apple, the product page says MBA is the system requirement as does http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2042
MacMini perfect, Server version problematic
I like it that the Mac Mini definitely is not dead after what apple makes out of it. It has a lot of power for the price. Perfect for a group like us which needs specialized external Monitors and a lot of peripherals.
The server version though, I see some problems. According to my experiences, a computer with MacOS X Server running is only needed in groups with more than let's say 10 people. Everything below can be done with a client version, it's more than sufficient in 99.9% of all tasks and it is a LOT easier to configure than the server version, even if you deal with the simple server setup.
How do you replace a HDD on a Mini when it breaks? Send it to the Apple repair center? Not a good idea at all if the company or group has its data on it. Replace it by yourself? As far as I know, the Minis are quite hard to maintain. 5400rpm... That's ok. 1 TB? No problem, 500GB would be more than enough. We got about 15 Macs doing their backups on a server. The drives never even are half full, even with full system backup.
What I don't understand is why they put in such a big graphic card. It's a server, rather use an old Graphiccard and make it 100$ cheaper. And what I also don't like is that the server mini still has this huge power converter as an external box which is almost as big as the computer itself. Remove the headphone, the audio-line-in, 2 USB and one of the display ports and try to fit the electrics in the box. If necessary, make the computer larger, it still will be mini. Right now it is a plain Mini with server capabilities, what I would like is a plain server which is mini.
I think, this server mini is designed only for a very small market. But as it has the name "Server" on it, maybe some companies or groups will buy it.
I like it that the Mac Mini definitely is not dead after what apple makes out of it. It has a lot of power for the price. Perfect for a group like us which needs specialized external Monitors and a lot of peripherals.
The server version though, I see some problems. According to my experiences, a computer with MacOS X Server running is only needed in groups with more than let's say 10 people. Everything below can be done with a client version, it's more than sufficient in 99.9% of all tasks and it is a LOT easier to configure than the server version, even if you deal with the simple server setup.
How do you replace a HDD on a Mini when it breaks? Send it to the Apple repair center? Not a good idea at all if the company or group has its data on it. Replace it by yourself? As far as I know, the Minis are quite hard to maintain. 5400rpm... That's ok. 1 TB? No problem, 500GB would be more than enough. We got about 15 Macs doing their backups on a server. The drives never even are half full, even with full system backup.
What I don't understand is why they put in such a big graphic card. It's a server, rather use an old Graphiccard and make it 100$ cheaper. And what I also don't like is that the server mini still has this huge power converter as an external box which is almost as big as the computer itself. Remove the headphone, the audio-line-in, 2 USB and one of the display ports and try to fit the electrics in the box. If necessary, make the computer larger, it still will be mini. Right now it is a plain Mini with server capabilities, what I would like is a plain server which is mini.
I think, this server mini is designed only for a very small market. But as it has the name "Server" on it, maybe some companies or groups will buy it.
Hum, about those 2 points. That is precisely what OS X Server offers. iCal, Address Book, roaming profiles and centralized login. Those are services offered out of the box (amongst others).
Those features are already offered by other products. Backups of all your Macs is handled by Time Capsule. Why duplicate the functionality and waste the drive space on the Mac Mini Server for backups ?
Back to my Mac is obviously a Mobile Me feature. While it would be nice to have on a local scale, don't expect Apple to give it to you. Either set it up yourself using the included Web Serving capabilities and 3rd party Web apps or just subscribe.
Apple actually offers remote GUI administration. Running iTunes from there is feasible on OS X server, so it can be done. So who cares if it's done from System Preferences or the iTunes GUI ? You have to VNC in anyway to set it up.
Too bad that the Mini doesn't have an eSATA port to connect to the 4TB RAID that Apple resells....
And it's too bad that the Mini Server, like most minis, has to be connected to a bunch of external disks because its internal storage is so limited. The MediaSmart and other WHS servers hit a sweet spot with 4 hot-swap drives in a micro-tower config.
The internal hard drives are in fact "server grade" as I had confirmed by an Apple rep online last night.
1 finger salute
hook in some externals HD's and that in itself is a big 1 finger salute to the esquires (Lawyers) of Redmond.
hook in some externals HD's and that in itself is a big 1 finger salute to the esquires (Lawyers) of Redmond.