Apple Vision Pro is an appliance not a computer

[ZombiePhysicist]

You're totally mischaracterizing my response by doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. You're not hearing what I'm saying:

I've asked you to show me a list of things you can't code to do on an iPad "due to the closed nature of the OS." Instead, you've given me a list of things that aren't practical given the power of the device. That's a wholly different discussion. For example, it may not be practical or even possible to do 8K video editing on an iPhone. But not because of Apple's walled-garden approach to the OS, rather, solely because of the form factor and the power of the chip inside.

This is evidenced by the fact that you can do everything else you listed above on the Mac, on software contained within the Mac App store.

You're moving the goalposts of the discussion.

If you cant see how basic IT is not allowed on an AVP where i cant even sync my own photos over without iCloud, I can't help you. iPads have many similar restrictions. Just look at the many items rejected from the store. Basic game emulators are not allowed. Mozilla cant even put the firefox engine into an iPad in the US. Many things are not allowed past the mother-may-I and many things will not even be tried because of the mother-may-I. Not my job to educate you when you dont want to understand. We can agree to disagree.

 

[powerslave65]

It’s got a cpu, a gpu, storage media, 2 screens, speakers, microphone, input channels, Bluetooth, and WiFi. Sounds like a computer to me.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple Vision Pro is great for doing power points and excel spreadsheets and watching TV and Movies. Right now Apple Vision Pro is an expensive appliance and not a computer. There is currently no native way to build applications and web apps within the system. A computer on the other hand can build apps and websites natively from the device itself. To me a computer can be used to build programs for itself and other devices.

I feel on some level that Apple was wish casting onto the Apple Vision Pro with terms like "Spacial Computing". The truth is the Apple Vision Pro is not capable of being a computer yet. Apple Vision Pro isn't self sufficient enough to be a computer.

Just because an appliance was built using a computer doesn't make it a computer.

Who in the world would use AVP to work in Excel spreadsheets?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Who in the world would use AVP to work in Excel spreadsheets?

Look, you've made it clear there's nothing you'd like to do on an AVP. So, highlighting one thing of everything you personally don't want to do on an AVP isn't very helpful to the discussion

and btw, I don't use excel. But I use Numbers heavily, and even in the AVP. So when you ask who? I raise my hand.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

If you cant see how basic IT is not allowed on an AVP where i cant even sync my own photos over without iCloud, I can't help you. iPads have many similar restrictions. Just look at the many items rejected from the store. Basic game emulators are not allowed. Mozilla cant even put the firefox engine into an iPad in the US. Many things are not allowed past the mother-may-I and many things will not even be tried because of the mother-may-I. Not my job to educate you when you dont want to understand. We can agree to disagree.

Again, you're moving the goalposts.

You CAN sync your photos to the AVP, you just don't want to use the perfectly capable iCloud service to do it. So, again, the capability is there, just not in the way you want to do it. Which is FINE! You don't have to like the AVP, or Apple, or iCloud. But that doesn't mean the AVP is not a computer just because you don't like how this particular computer and operating system works.

Every single computer ever built has some set of limitations, some specific things it does well, and others it can't do or won't do well. I can't do Spatial computing on a Macintosh. Doesn't mean the Mac is not a computer.

I get that you simply want to rant; but you seem to be confusing your rants for some fact-based discussion about what is and is not a computer.

 

[cnnyy20p]

But what computing applications require an open boot loader? Again, you and others are trying to blur some imaginary line. If "computer" only means a device in which you have access to the boot loader, a definition that is nowhere to be found anywhere, then that means a lot of systems that you'd obviously consider computers are not computers.

And, where exactly is this a problem?

Did you read my original post at all? iPhone iPad APV are computers just like Mac. But they are special type of computers. But you really can't say they are fully specialized type either because they mostly also do general tasks. So they can be called "specialized-general purpose computer🖥️". I did this wishing to stop this "What's a computer?" madness that Apple had created.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Again, you're moving the goalposts.

You CAN sync your photos to the AVP, you just don't want to use the perfectly capable iCloud service to do it. So, again, the capability is there, just not in the way you want to do it. Which is FINE! You don't have to like the AVP, or Apple, or iCloud. But that doesn't mean the AVP is not a computer just because you don't like how this particular computer and operating system works.

Every single computer ever built has some set of limitations, some specific things it does well, and others it can't do or won't do well. I can't do Spatial computing on a Macintosh. Doesn't mean the Mac is not a computer.

I get that you simply want to rant; but you seem to be confusing your rants for some fact-based discussion about what is and is not a computer.

No goalposts were moved, it's just a sign of your losing argument and cognitive dissonance. And an amazing ability repel all understanding. Please dont tell me what I want. You have no idea.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

No goalposts were moved, it's just a sign of your losing argument and cognitive dissidence. And an amazing ability repel all understanding. Please dont tell me what I want. You have no idea.

*dissonance

 

[Rogifan]

Look, you've made it clear there's nothing you'd like to do on an AVP. So, highlighting one thing of everything you personally don't want to do on an AVP isn't very helpful to the discussion

and btw, I don't use excel. But I use Numbers heavily, and even in the AVP. So when you ask who? I raise my hand.

I use Excel every day for my job. There’s no way I’d use it via the AVP interface. I wouldn’t get anything done.

 

[KPOM]

I use Excel every day for my job. There’s no way I’d use it via the AVP interface. I wouldn’t get anything done.

Evidently someone at the WSJ disagrees.

Apple’s New Face Computer Is for Work

The killer apps for Apple’s new Vision Pro will be the same ones we already use every day.

www.wsj.com

The fact that Microsoft released native versions of its 365 apps, including Excel, is telling. Granted, these are modified versions of the iPad apps, but they are still useful, particularly when traveling.

 

[Rogifan]

Evidently someone at the WSJ disagrees.

Apple’s New Face Computer Is for Work

The killer apps for Apple’s new Vision Pro will be the same ones we already use every day.

www.wsj.com

The fact that Microsoft released native versions of its 365 apps, including Excel, is telling. Granted, these are modified versions of the iPad apps, but they are still useful, particularly when traveling.

And Ben Thompson said pretty much the opposite. The only compelling use case (to him) that he had so far was watching movies on an airplane.

 

[Night Spring]

Who in the world would use AVP to work in Excel spreadsheets?

I use Excel every day for my job. There’s no way I’d use it via the AVP interface. I wouldn’t get anything done.

For me, working with a large spreadsheet is one of the first things that comes to mind when I think about what tasks could be easier with the VP. We can size the spreadsheet window much larger than on physical computer monitors, so we can see more of the spreadsheet at once! Now, I haven't had the chance to actually use a VP, so I don't know if the UI/UX is up to the task. When you say you can't get work done with the VP interface, are you talking from personal experience, or just extrapolating from what you've read/heard about it? What in particular about the interface makes it hard for you to do work with it?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

For me, working with a large spreadsheet is one of the first things that comes to mind when I think about what tasks could be easier with the VP. We can size the spreadsheet window much larger than on physical computer monitors, so we can see more of the spreadsheet at once! Now, I haven't had the chance to actually use a VP, so I don't know if the UI/UX is up to the task. When you say you can't get work done with the VP interface, are you talking from personal experience, or just extrapolating from what you've read/heard about it? What in particular about the interface makes it hard for you to do work with it?

Unfortunatly the windows have a max size. You would do better with a massive 8k display. Excel goes to column about AK. My guess is that's much like a 27" cinema display. It's kind of cool how big you can blow it up to be billboard size, but not necessarily more cells visible. Hopefully that makes some sense.

 

[Sami13496]

It’s a new toy for adults.

 

[subjonas]

Times have changed and the word computer by todays standards means a product that you can natively create other software with for the device itself or for another device.

I’m guessing you’re a developer? This sounds like a definition a developer would say. And maybe it’s a definition that works in developer circles. But I’m pretty sure most Mac/PC users don’t think about developing when they say “computer”. As a non-developer, I don’t. And I think I can guarantee you no one in my family does. People define things by thinking of whatever it is they’re used to associating with that thing, or whatever it is they depend on it to do. For developers it makes sense, a computer programs. For office workers, it might be just need to run Microsoft Office apps and have a file system. For a home user, they might consider anything with a screen, keyboard, and web browser a computer.

It’s true though, there are certain types of “computers” without which others couldn’t exist, that is a real distinction. But as far as what to call those and what to call the others, I would say 1) we can only debate academically because common language evolves organically and is somewhat useless to debate, and 2) I think “traditional computer” and “computing device” (respectively) might be better terms to differentiate between them, rather than “computer“ and “appliance”, because appliance implies very limited functionality when actually there is far more overlap in end-user function than differentiation between something like the Mac and the iPad or Vision Pro, or even an iPhone for that matter.
But it’s also sort of odd to separate them into those categories when all it would take is one application to be added for it to jump from one category to the other.

 

[Basic75]

But it’s also sort of odd to separate them into those categories when all it would take is one application to be added for it to jump from one category to the other.

Nobody is calling an Xbox or a PlayStation a computer. But in the bigger picture you are right, endlessly debating the terminology is futile as people constantly abuse language and mislabel things, both on an individual and collective level. At the end of the day it's the Apple Vision Pro, and we should be able to have a conversation about its merits, or lack thereof, without having to a priori agree on calling it a computer. Then again, the point of this post was to recognise that it is not in fact a general purpose computer. Oh dear. Enough internet for today.

 

[Ghost31]

You know what I notice about that ad now? The ridiculous way she closes her keyboard cover. What is that?? She just kinda slams it against the counter and doesn't even cover the front of the iPad.

Everyone dogs that ad (and oddly, I think that’s what Apple wanted. Gets people talking) but I absolutely loved it because it felt like there was a deeper message about how “computing” was a generational thing. Someone born in 2010 will have a different idea of a computer vs a lot of people my age born in the 1980’s