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you pay for the end product and not for the µIC - knowing what's inside does not give you any insight in the performance since this is the fest ever product. For me it makes no difference whether it has M1, M2 or M3 and at 3.5 GHz the M3 in base configuration is potentially more power efficient but in 4.1 GHz it iss marginally faster and potentially equally or more electrical power draining.
I guess we can call it most probably a tie between the M2 and M3 for the AVP use case and the price iss probably still a steal for what we get - I'd be willing to pay more to get one today and not in a few months when the initial demand in the US is satisfied.
Perception wise, it feels terrible to pay a premium for a product with outdated parts. Plus in terms of efficiency, the argument falls flat - as I said, metrics say the base M3 is more efficient, so that's not the reason Apple picked the M2 - they're cutting cost where they can, there are supplies of it more readily available.

Or perhaps the M2 works better underclocked / without active cooling. Who knows.

It does not ruin the AVP in any way, I'm talking about perception only.
 
can you do more than one screen mirroring today? There is no standard for that. It's probably something for the future VisionOS generation on existing hardware and I would bet a ( put in here your most beloved APPLE accessorie )

Apple is being carefully releasing step boy step improvements. The current status is VisionOS 1.x and not the final status.
By 2027 we'll see AVP 2 and until then we have been using VisionOS 1, 2 and probably 3 too
I agree - I don;t remember arguing with this.

I am just saying that my ideal use case is to open apps from Mac and put them in the AR environment as separate windows rather than in 1 mirror window.
This would be ideal for me.

And I also gree, next iterations will improve. I ain't complaining here - on the contrary, cheering that the tech has strong potential and Apple did a good job.
All I hope is the reviews will be great once it's in the hands of end users.
 
Perception wise, it feels terrible to pay a premium for a product with outdated parts. Plus in terms of efficiency, the argument falls flat - as I said, metrics say the base M3 is more efficient, so that's not the reason Apple picked the M2 - they're cutting cost where they can, there are supplies of it more readily available.

It does not ruin the AVP in any way, I'm talking about perception only.
you should work on enhancing your perception.😅 In case facts do not convince you - you're driven by sentiment - that's a rather bad advice - believe me. I am trying to be guided by facts and not by perception.
The M2 is most probably virtually identical to the M3 in the use case for the AVP and € 4 or 5 k just feels o.k.ish for such a 1st gen device for me - I spent € 7 k for a new lens coming in February for my Sony camera and since there was a rebate on their G 20 .. 70 last week I ordered that on top for € 1 k and I love it.
So in total double the price and worth every penny.

Get a life where you see options and not limitations. The AVP will be a bad product measured against it's future 4th of 5th generation - but you'll have gained a lot of insights before others will jump on this bandwagon.

For most tasks M2 or M3 does probably not change anything tangible in usability. People will moan about it since they always moan about things.

I'd be more interested in R1 benchmarks and what it does and how t does things - the CPU will be doing mainly housekeeping - as said before. Couple the ACP with good APPs and you'll be amazed by the results. The next gen will have an M4 or even an M5 - and it'll be smaller, lighter and have better displays - as always with Apple.
 
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you should work on enhancing your perception. In case facts do not convince you - you're driven bye sentiment - that's a bad advice - believe me. I am trying to be guided by facts and not by perception.
The M2 is most probably virtually identical to the M3 in the use case for the AVP and € 4 or 5 k just feels o.k.ish for such a 11st gen device for me - I spent € 7 k for a new lens coming in February for my Sony camera and since there was a rebate on their G 20 .. 70 last week I ordered that on top for € 1 k and I love it.
So in total double the price and worth every penny.

Get a life where you see options and not limitations. The AVP will be a bad product measured against it's future 4th of 5th generation - but you'll have gained a lot of insights before others will jump on this bandwagon.

For most tasks M2 or M3 does probably not change anything tangible in usability. People will moan about it since they always moan about things.

I'd be more interested in R1 benchmarks and what it does and how t does things - the CPU will be doing mainly housekeeping - as said before. Couple the ACP with good APPs and you'll be amazed by the results. The next gen will have an M4 or even an M5 - and it'll be smaller, lighter and have better displays - as always with Apple.
Nevermind.
 
Who is going spend $3500 on a 1st gen product? Too much risk for that type of money.

I'm skipping this one and see how the 1st gen pans out. And then I may or may not buy the 2nd gen for $3500.
If the product takes off, eventually I may buy one. The problem is I’ll have to buy two so me and my wife can watch movies together, which would be our main use. There’s no way I would spend $7K just for us watch 3D or “spatial” movies.

I think it will be at least three or four years before the device’s price comes down meaningfully and its utility goes up.
 
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If the product takes off, eventually I may buy one. The problem is I’ll have to buy two so me and my wife can watch movies together, which would be our main use. There’s no way I would spend $7K just for us watch 3D or “spatial” movies.

I think it will be at least three or four years before the device’s price comes down meaningfully and its utility goes up.

If this is the main use, put a fraction of the price of two towards a good TV or two. For mobile watching, get a nice, bigger mobile screen device and share audio between the two of you for movie watching.

I do NOT see Vpro replacing devices already set up well for social (group) watching/consumption. Those devices already exist. Most probably already have them in place. Etc. Use what you already have.

IMO, Vpro is scratching itches for screens not as readily available, such as delivering a gigantic laptop screen when one needs more space than 16" to get their own work done (solo). There's no practical way to lug- say- a 50" screen onto the airplane and then trying to use it with a laptop in cramped seating. Or if it's just you or just your wife wanting to watch an inflight movie on a bigger (than iDevice or laptop screen) while flying, Vpro could scratch that itch too.

I don't really envision families sharing the same physical space, all wearing Vpros for purposes that are likely better served with a big television and/or a bigger mobile screen device to watch on airplanes. Even in money to burn scenarios where that's affordable, 2+ people trying to watch the same movie in multiple Vpros are going to be watching out of sync, which means those behind whoever is furthest along is going to be hearing/feeling their reactions BEFORE others get to the point where they too will react.

I lean quite positive on this product... but I do NOT see it being preferable to the "as is" for group experiences where the group is sharing the same room. Gather around the television for that. Gather around the big desktop screen. Etc. I "THINK" this is a solo user device in situations where one person wants/needs a big mobile screen. Or, via other uses, one person is wanting to do things better suited to a 3-dimensional view (for VR) or for various AR uses where holding up an iDevice to create the overlays is less desirable (recall the pokeman go game, where one had to hold up an iPhone to see the virtual characters in your local area. Instead of looking through a phone, you just look- no holding a frame up in front of your face and moving it around to find them).

In about all uses though, I foresee solo user benefits- not group... UNLESS the group is not sharing the same physical space and wants to create a good illusion of coming together in the same virtual space and/or virtually attending the "big game" (or show) together as if they have flown to where it is being played and are actually going to be sitting there side by side.

I'm open to being completely wrong about that and- just like with iDevices & computers- there may be many uses where everyone in a household can benefit from having a Vpro of their own, I just don't foresee much of that now. Someone will need to show me some applications where that will be better in group scenarios than leaning on existing tech already in place.
 
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just have a look at the base line M3 with 8 CPU and 10 GPU cores - it is barely faster than the iPad PRO with the identical CPU and GPU configuration - so you would have gained basically nothing

  • iPad PRO with M2 ( 3.5 GHz ) 8x CPU and 10x GPU Geekbench results:
    • single core: 2527
    • multi core: 9578
    • metal: 45392
  • MacBook PRO with M3 ( 4.1 GHz ) 8x CPU and 10x GPU Geekbench results:
    • single core: 3084
    • multi core: 11578
    • metal: 47386
That does not sound like a solid improvement over the M2 with identical configuration. Plus the M3 is running 17 % faster clock speed at potentially +5 .. 10 % more energy consumption ). The multi core performance is just a a tiny bit better and the GPU performance is virtually identical. I see no real pressing need for an M3 - mind you - real world gains would be limited if not indistinguishable.

But in case it helps - every not in the US bought AVP will make it more likely that I can get mine in Europe faster - can't wait to get mine and it's going to be a day to celebrate.

What we don't know at all is the contribution of the R1 - this will be the most interesting part to analyze once the first AVPs have been delivered.
Why are you comparing an iPad to a MacBook?
 
If this is the main use, put a fraction of the price of two towards a good TV or two. For mobile watching, get a nice, bigger mobile screen device and share audio between the two of you for movie watching.

I agree with this. We have a two 65” TVs at home and a 12.9” iPad Pro for travel.

I don't really envision families sharing the same physical space, all wearing Vpros for purposes that are likely better served with a big television and/or a bigger mobile screen device to watch on airplanes. Even in money to burn scenarios where that's affordable, 2+ people trying to watch the same movie in multiple Vpros are going to be watching out of sync, which means those behind whoever is furthest along is going to be hearing/feeling their reactions BEFORE others get to the point where they too will react.

I’m assuming SharePlay will be supported at some point, if not at launch, since it’s already available on Apple TV to view content in sync with others during FaceTime calls. It’s also available on iPadOS which is the basis for visionOS.

From Apple: SharePlay helps multiple people share activities — like viewing a movie, listening to music, playing a game, or sketching ideas on a whiteboard — while they’re in a FaceTime call or Messages conversation.

Apple even had a Design spatial SharePlay experiences video at WWDC.

So it won’t be a problem for a family of four to watch a movie together. The issue would be that family justifying the $14,000 price tag for four units unless the price drops substantially. That’s why utility will need to go up while the price goes down before it becomes mainstream.
 
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Might this M2 be 3nm? Apple announced improved battery life from 2 hours to 2.5. That’s 25% better power efficiency, about what moving from 5nm to 3nm process could provide.
 
Everyone who wants to use one until gen 2 comes out, silly.
Very true. I’m surprised we don’t see that sentiment more frequently about all new products from Apple.

I’m not the audience for AVP, but Apple Watch, for example, felt like they had me in mind, so I ”voted early“ with my pre-order and haven’t heard a notification or vibration from my iPhone since.

Apple Watch is a good comparison because so many MR members have no interest in one, or have tried it and didn’t find it useful, but some have made it an integral part of their life workflow.

I look forward to articles, videos, and comments about how MVP evolves.
 
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Why are you comparing an iPad to a MacBook?
well - the iPad PRO M2 16 GB RAM is most probably the configuration we're going to see in the AVP and there is no M3 iPad PRO yet - thus I am using the MB with similar CPU and GPU configuration for comparison.

We don't know many things but from the given data it can be assumed that a M3 would not have any significant speed advantages.

I am using this comparison to get an idea about the potential gain when using an M3 instead of the M2 - my interpretation is it would be virtually indistinguishable in performance.
 
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Surprised they're using a two year old chip in this. I am guessing this is to give the extra headroom for V2 of the product to show significant speed gain. Set a low bar first, in other words.
 
well - the iPad PRO M2 16 GB RAM is most probably the configuration we're going to see in the AVP and there is no M3 iPad PRO yet - thus I am using the MB with similar CPU and GPU configuration for comparison.

We don't know many things but from the given data it can be assumed that a M3 would not have any significant speed advantages.

I am using this comparison to get an idea about the potential gain when using an M3 instead of the M2 - my interpretation is it would be virtually indistinguishable in performance.
If only Apple made an 13“ M2 MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM. That would be more useful for comparing chip generations instead of a thermally restricted iPad.
 
I agree with this. We have a two 65” TVs at home and a 12.9” iPad Pro for travel.



I’m assuming SharePlay will be supported at some point, if not at launch, since it’s already available on Apple TV to view content in sync with others during FaceTime calls. It’s also available on iPadOS which is the basis for visionOS.

From Apple: SharePlay helps multiple people share activities — like viewing a movie, listening to music, playing a game, or sketching ideas on a whiteboard — while they’re in a FaceTime call or Messages conversation.

Apple even had a Design spatial SharePlay experiences video at WWDC.

So it won’t be a problem for a family of four to watch a movie together. The issue would be that family justifying the $14,000 price tag for four units unless the price drops substantially. That’s why utility will need to go up while the price goes down before it becomes mainstream.

I hadn't seen that SharePlay bit yet. Thanks for sharing.

I could further correct my previous post by thinking about advanced classroom settings wherein- say- med school students could practice life-endangering surgeries on virtual patients together and not sweat permanent damage to a live volunteer (patient): the ultimately version of the classic Operation game. That could extend to various kinds of engineering teams too.

So there are certainly application concepts where people in the same physical room could be wearing Vpros together... but I didn't imagine much obvious opportunity for several people mostly interested in pure consumption activities vs. the good old big TV, etc. SharePlay ideas offers some alternative imagination where that could be interesting for families.
 
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Where are all the Studio and Mini evangelists stomping their feet that Apple, yet again, built another AIO device where they, as supposed earth-friendly consumers, will have to throw away a perfectly good display because they can't just purchase a new stand-alone processor for their iGoggles?! Anybody seen them? LOL
 
Surprised they're using a two year old chip in this. I am guessing this is to give the extra headroom for V2 of the product to show significant speed gain. Set a low bar first, in other words.

Doubt it's about speed- see AppleTV guts- but margin and that M2 does the Vpro job good enough for the full experience. Almost all AppleTV uses would NOT benefit at all from even M3-MAX- the old A-whatever is good enough for most of the AppleTV functionality.

That's shared though: it is a psychological downer to think about spending $3500 for "old tech" even if newer won't necessarily add something to the intended mix of uses.
 
If only Apple made an 13“ M2 MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM. That would be more useful for comparing chip generations instead of a thermally restricted iPad.
your wish is my command :cool:

  • iPad PRO with M2 ( 3.5 GHz ) 8x CPU and 10x GPU Geekbench results:
    • single core: 2527
    • multi core: 9578
    • metal: 45392
  • MacBook Air M2 ( 3.5 GHz ) 8x CPU and 10x GPU Geekbench results:
    • single core: 2594
    • multi core: 9754
    • metal: 45613
  • MacBook PRO with M3 ( 4.1 GHz ) 8x CPU and 10x GPU Geekbench results:
    • single core: 3084
    • multi core: 11578
    • metal: 47386
Can't see much difference - it's within the mating of error IMHO - the tests of Geekbench are so short that thermal aspects should be marginally.
The jump from M2 to M3 in the base configurations is marginally - where the M3 shines is the M3 Max and I guess this would not have been an option for an ultra mobile device like the AVP to start with.

I guess the AVP will be mainly restricted by the APPs and it's basically an iPad with two high resolution displays to wear.

One could call it an Eye-Pad 🤣
( got patent pending for that ) 😎
 
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All these high-end specs in an AR headset, and I still can't see regular people buying them in large numbers. 😵

(I'm sure there are plenty of wealthy tech workers and several oil princes who'll snap them up though? 🤔)
 
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Doubt it's about speed- see AppleTV guts- but margin and that M2 does the Vpro job good enough for the full experience. Almost all AppleTV uses would NOT benefit at all from even M3-MAX- the old A-whatever is good enough for most of the AppleTV functionality.

That's shared though: it is a psychological downer to think about spending $3500 for "old tech" even if newer won't necessarily add something to the intended mix of uses.

And at some point in time Apple needed to freeze the AVP design to hit their targeted release date. That point in time was likely before when the M3 was released into production.

Imagine a situation where the M3 turned out to be flawed in some manner, and that caused a delay in AVP being released. Not a good situation to be in.
 
The material used on this device is going to get so dirty. I think this is a grave misstep.
Stop wearing makeup and hair product and it wont rub off on the AVP.

Don't let social construct influences make you feel bad about your natural beauty.

Now that I've saved you years of therapy and money with my brilliant insight into the pitfalls of emotional capitalism, you can thank me by buying me an AVP. ;)
 
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