Apple Watch Burn

[xraydoc]

Thanks for your detail. Much appreciated and a summation I failed to achieve originally.

Yes, it’s not a burn as such, but a skin reaction that looks like a burn, hence it is easy to so define it. It is not like psoriasis. The skin is just reacting to what the sensor is doing every so often. The mark on the wrist being directly under the sensor. There are many creams for the skin. Last time, a few years ago, I tried a prescribed one, but it did nothing. The “burn” just went away when I stopped wearing it on that wrist. But appeared one the other wrist in just the same manner. As in the past my suspicions point to software changes in the operation of the sensor software. Perhaps increasing its intensity. I don’t know. This then with some creates a reaction. It was cured a few years ago with a quick release of an update. No doubt the same will apply today with the latest update issued on the 25th July. Certainly since then, the problem has not appeared again on my right wrist where the watch has been temporarily relocated. I have no doubt Apple know what the issue is.

Not a thermal burn. Not from the light sensors being triggered by software. Almost certainly from common fungus or bacteria on your skin getting trapped under the watch and irritating the skin.

Could low-grade warmth caused by the watch's CPU & battery working harder periodically from a software issue cause it? Potentially a few extra degrees of warmth could aid in the overgrowth of bacteria and/or fungal irritants already present on your skin, but such heat is certainly not enough to cause thermal or electromagnetic burning of the skin on your wrist (yet when taken off somehow doesn't also cause your fingers to burn right away).

If there were that much thermal runaway from the battery, it would likely damage the watch to the point of no longer functioning. If it were from the sensors being triggered by a software bug, than thousands of people would have reported the same issue.

 

[Digital Dude]

I gave up on the beta program years ago. There was a time when Apple did their own in-house testing before farming it out to customers. Tim Cook is still a CFO at heart. 🤑

 

[HDFan]

A extremely small proportion of the population has extreme sensitivities to things like cellular signals, light. It might be that your are reacting to the sensor emissions. It would be very, very rare but is possible. Haven't heard of any such cases among the extremely sensitive as yet.

 

[G4RHL]

A extremely small proportion of the population has extreme sensitivities to things like cellular signals, light. It might be that your are reacting to the sensor emissions. It would be very, very rare but is possible. Haven't heard of any such cases among the extremely sensitive as yet.

Thanks. Yes, this may be a possibility. However, I would expect it by now to be showing on my right wrist as it did before. I swapped the watch to my right wrist the day the IOS was updated. Nothing appeared in this forum about the update. It just happened on its own. Clearly an issue had been found but it is too easy to jump to conclusions and assume it was this one. So far though it has not returned since the update. As only a few get the problem it is likely to be a degree of sensitivity to the sensor and how strong that might be. But then “strong” is not the right word to describe it! Its intensity though could have been enhanced when watchOS 11 was first released, particularly as it adds a chunk more to what the watch does. Time will tell.

 

[BenGoren]

A extremely small proportion of the population has extreme sensitivities to things like cellular signals, light. It might be that your are reacting to the sensor emissions. It would be very, very rare but is possible. Haven't heard of any such cases among the extremely sensitive as yet.

That “extremely small proportion of the population” is so small that it is exactly zero. Not approximately zero; not “within rounding,” but actually exactly zero.

… with the caveat, of course, that there are certainly people who believe that they are, and that their beliefs cause non-trivial stress and anxiety, which in turn causes various physical symptoms. But those symptoms are the typical symptoms of stress and anxiety, including general malaise, upset digestion, difficulty sleeping, high blood pressure, and so on. They can also suffer from weakened immune systems that leave them more vulnerable to infection. And more.

Again: demonstrate otherwise and you’ll rival Madame Curie in the Nobel Prize count.

b&

 

[Howard2k]

That “extremely small proportion of the population” is so small that it is exactly zero. Not approximately zero; not “within rounding,” but actually exactly zero.

… with the caveat, of course, that there are certainly people who believe that they are, and that their beliefs cause non-trivial stress and anxiety, which in turn causes various physical symptoms. But those symptoms are the typical symptoms of stress and anxiety, including general malaise, upset digestion, difficulty sleeping, high blood pressure, and so on. They can also suffer from weakened immune systems that leave them more vulnerable to infection. And more.

Again: demonstrate otherwise and you’ll rival Madame Curie in the Nobel Prize count.

b&

“Cellular allergy” is not real.
Dermatitis caused by exposure to sunlight is real, but exceptionally rare.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

Sensors don't cause that... Devices like the AW and generally all mobile devices are tweaked to have minimal possible energy consumption to maximize battery life. Every milli-Watt counts. So the sensors are tweaked to operate at minimum necessary power and are often inactive (measurement of heart frequency for example is depending on motion... if no motion I believe the sensor measures once a minute or even less - in fact that is visible in a dark room, so you would notice at night).

The most likely explanation is temperature. Currently it's summer and heat might require to loosen the strap a little. => What can thin out the skin is high pressure of the watch to the skin. This will take the form a circle when using an AW.
With beta versions there may also be bugs. Bugs may cause higher CPU usage increasing the temperate of the watch which might just be the threshold of sweating of the skin, which then may get trapped under watch. Now again with the increased temperature, bacteria in that biofilm of sweat getting active may in return trigger reactions of the skin. @xraydoc already mentioned that anyway...
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/sweat-eczema is good reference on a similar issue and very well explaining that various skin reaction are all but trivial...

 

[JCCL]

This thread reminds me of Better Call Saul…..there are millions of watches out there. Do you think if they were burning people it wouldn’t be known?

 

[goldmac2006]

Thanks for your rapid rush to defend Apple! It is caused by the watch. It is not painful or even uncomfortable. All the aspects you outline have been checked before. Put the watch on the other wrist and it begins to appear there. But it is not some allergic reaction. I have worn an Apple Watch now for about 9 years. No problems at all until a few years ago as outlined in my post. Same issue. As said it went after an upgrade that came out quite quickly after I reported it with photos. At that time after the usual initial “it’s not us” Apple did ask for a lot more detail. Others had the same issue. That was a few years ago. Now an update and it happens. The watch is washed every day. It is nothing to do with anything between the rear and my wrist. It is a sort of burn mark that directly relates in shape and size to the sensor on the back. However, I note that since my report to them Apple have now rushed out an update to the software for the watch. Just a little unusual as watch updates don’t often come out on their own. I suspect I will find the issue will disappear.

Don’t you loosen your Apple Watch band instead of wearing it super tightly? You can also use Aquaphor and pre-moisturize your wrists and arms after washing up, and once the skin is dry put on your Apple Watch as long it is clean.

Regarding heat issues, my Apple Watch in stainless steel never gets super hot after doing watchOS 11 beta updates, only a tad warm which is normal for these updates and after a charge all the way to full. But with the summer air conditioning on a lot, my Apple Watch does get cold to the touch after I take it off the charger if it is not updating or only doing a short charge on the dock, which because stainless steel is a more hardened type of metal than aluminum, it can experience more heat and cold than the aluminum.

 

[G4RHL]

Don’t you loosen your Apple Watch band instead of wearing it super tightly? You can also use Aquaphor and pre-moisturize your wrists and arms after washing up, and once the skin is dry put on your Apple Watch as long it is clean.

Regarding heat issues, my Apple Watch in stainless steel never gets super hot after doing watchOS 11 beta updates, only a tad warm which is normal for these updates and after a charge all the way to full. But with the summer air conditioning on a lot, my Apple Watch does get cold to the touch after I take it off the charger if it is not updating or only doing a short charge on the dock, which because stainless steel is a more hardened type of metal than aluminum, it can experience more heat and cold than the aluminum.

Thanks.helpful information but stuff I have tried. I should not call it a “burn” but it gets Apple’s attention. It’s a skin reaction to the operation of the sensor. It can get warm but never hot enough to burn. I have mentioned that I expect this go following an OS update. They did rush one out a few days ago. The watch is on my right wrist whilst the other “heals” and since the update no reaction as yet. Exactly the same as happened a few years ago. As usual time will tell, but thanks for the response.

 

[goldmac2006]

Thanks.helpful information but stuff I have tried. I should not call it a “burn” but it gets Apple’s attention. It’s a skin reaction to the operation of the sensor. It can get warm but never hot enough to burn. I have mentioned that I expect this go following an OS update. They did rush one out a few days ago. The watch is on my right wrist whilst the other “heals” and since the update no reaction as yet. Exactly the same as happened a few years ago. As usual time will tell, but thanks for the response.

No problem, sir. It’s rare to see such an allergic reaction to the heart rate and blood oxygen /temperature sensor on the Apple Watch versus when it comes to the casing materials or band material.

My Apple Watch does get warm during updates but I heard some people say that when you use cellular it happens as well, never tried it before as I never set up cellular on my SS S6 gold. Btw man which type of Apple Watch did you buy?

 

[HDFan]

That “extremely small proportion of the population” is so small that it is exactly zero. Not approximately zero; not “within rounding,” but actually exactly zero.

I have met some of them at a clinic which specializes in treating the extraordinarily sensitive. The number is certainly close to 0 but it is still positive.

 

[G4RHL]

I have met some of them at a clinic which specializes in treating the extraordinarily sensitive. The number is certainly close to 0 but it is still positive.

Nice to know I am rare! Perhaps a better description is “an odd ball”!! However, since the last watchOS update the issue has gone.

 

[BenGoren]

I have met some of them at a clinic which specializes in treating the extraordinarily sensitive. The number is certainly close to 0 but it is still positive.

Would you be so kind as to share the name / Web site / contact information of the clinic? I’m sure they’ll have references to the peer-reviewed literature describing this extraordinary (your term is apt) phenomenon you describe.

b&

 

[Pierre535]

I would think the easiest method to prove one way or another would be, next time it occurs, change wrist and turn off the watch and see if it continues to happen. This was done on another post.

 

[G4RHL]

I would think the easiest method to prove one way or another would be, next time it occurs, change wrist and turn off the watch and see if it continues to happen. This was done on another post.

I did that this last time.

 

[Pierre535]

I did that this last time.

Several times you mentioned putting it on your right wrist with no reaction. ITS NOT THE WATCH!

 

[G4RHL]

I don’t think you have properly read what I have reported. It is the watch. The first time, a few tears back, I changed wrists and got exactly the same reaction. The watch! This time I changed wrists at the same time as the update in the software and I expected there to be no reaction. There was not and still isn’t. The watch creates, well now created since the update, the problem. Apple have addressed it.

 

[HDFan]

Would you be so kind as to share the name / Web site / contact information of the clinic? I’m sure they’ll have references to the peer-reviewed literature describing this extraordinary (your term is apt) phenomenon you describe.

b&

I can supply it but it you aren't going to find the "peer-reviewed" literature which you want. Given the very small number of people who have these sensitivities (EMF, chemical, cellular, environmental, etc.) there likely are few if any published studies. Up to now it falls into the category of alternative medicine.

On positive thing that happened with long term Covid is that there are now a lot of people that are reporting symptoms that have been an issue with the "sensitives" for years.

EMF sensitivity may be even rarer. Tools to measure and analyze the effects on the nervous system may take a decade or more to develop. The work to make this happen evidently has begun:

Electromagnetic hypersensitivity

Over 1.4 million base stations exist worldwide and the number is increasing significantly with the introduction of third generation technology.

www.who.int

 

[BenGoren]

I can supply it but it you aren't going to find the "peer-reviewed" literature which you want. Given the very small number of people who have these sensitivities (EMF, chemical, cellular, environmental, etc.) there likely are few if any published studies. Up to now it falls into the category of alternative medicine.

On positive thing that happened with long term Covid is that there are now a lot of people that are reporting symptoms that have been an issue with the "sensitives" for years.

EMF sensitivity may be even rarer. Tools to measure and analyze the effects on the nervous system may take a decade or more to develop. The work to make this happen evidently has begun:

Electromagnetic hypersensitivity

Over 1.4 million base stations exist worldwide and the number is increasing significantly with the introduction of third generation technology.

www.who.int

Your own link puts it better than I could:

“A number of studies have been conducted where EHS individuals were exposed to EMF similar to those that they attributed to the cause of their symptoms. The aim was to elicit symptoms under controlled laboratory conditions.

The majority of studies indicate that EHS individuals cannot detect EMF exposure any more accurately than non-EHS individuals. Well controlled and conducted double-blind studies have shown that symptoms were not correlated with EMF exposure.”

… and:

“The symptoms are certainly real and can vary widely in their severity. Whatever its cause, EHS can be a disabling problem for the affected individual. EHS has no clear diagnostic criteria and there is no scientific basis to link EHS symptoms to EMF exposure.”

That’s exactly what I’ve been repeating: G4RHL’s rash is real, and it’s caused by the watch, but it is *NOT* caused by the sensors nor any other “active” component of the wash.

And the WHO’s recommendation?

“Treatment of affected individuals should focus on the health symptoms and the clinical picture, and not on the person's perceived need for reducing or eliminating EMF in the workplace or home.”

Or, as I keep pleading: go see a dermatologist. Because insisting that a software update will somehow heal the wounds … is just going to prolong the suffering.

b&

 

[reig3]

If you are swimming in a pool, is it possible that pool chemicals behind the watch are causing the irritation?

 

[G4RHL]

No. If this were the case it would be a constant problem. Or at least occur more frequently.

i have had an Apple Watch since Watch 0. In October 2018 I bought a series 4. I swim every day. No problems. In April 2019 there was a software upgrade and the issue appeared. I changed the watch to my other wrist (my right wrist) and it appeared there as well. After reporting to Apple there was an upgrade to the watch OS. The problem quickly went and I have worn my watch on the same wrist (left) since. My Ultra was acquired last year. No problems. As reported there was a recent upgrade to the watchOS and the same mark appeared. Apple quickly produced another update on the same day I moved the watch to my right wrist to give time for my left to “repair”. No problems since. The issue ties in with software upgrades on two occasions and remedied with a further update shortly after. This second time the update came out with exceptional alacrity.

It’s not really a burn, it does not itch or hurt, just a round red mark directly under the watch. I have no idea what would have happened if I had ignored it and no way of knowing at present. Cleaning and washing has always been thorough. The watch is removed as soon my swimming session has finished and washed and dried and put back on after I have showered. The connection to software changes is exceptionally strong and I have no doubt Apple are aware of it. I know I am not alone as it was indicated to me by Apple 5 years ago when it first happened there had been other sudden reports of the issue surfacing. Now all appears to be good again.

 

[goldmac2006]

If you are swimming in a pool, is it possible that pool chemicals behind the watch are causing the irritation?

Depends on the type of purification the pool water is being treated. I did swim with Apple Watch Series 6 gold stainless steel a few times and I only got a more prominent mark of my Sport Band buckle after I took it off to eject the water via Water Lock, and dry it out.

The pool I swam in was a saltwater treated pool so with chlorine it is more likely that the chemicals may cause irritation if you do not dry it off and wash up after you swim.

 

[BenGoren]

The connection to software changes is exceptionally strong

No.

Indeed, the exact opposite: the data says amazingly overwhelmingly powerfully that software updates do not cause rashes.

I am a statistician. With an advanced degree and everything.

Apple releases software updates all the time.

Rashes — in the population in general, and for you in particular — are pretty rare events.

But … even though rashes are rare, there’s a mind-bogglingly huge number of people wearing Apple Watches; at least 100,000,000, from some very cursory research. Let me lowball the figure and say that one in ten thousand watch owners will experience a rash once per year (from any cause); that still leaves ten thousand rashes per year. So, even assuming a 0.01% annual rash rate, we still get an awful lot of rashes.

Apple releases updates about once per month. Let’s make the math easy and call it ten per year, which means, if there’s no correlation, we’d expect, with every release, a thousand people to develop a rash the same month as an update. Divide by 30 and we’ve got about 30 people developing a rash the same day.

Scale that back up, and we’ve got over 300 people per year developing a rash the same day as an update.

Since 2019, that’d be over 1500 people developing a rash the same day as an update.

From here, two conclusions are obvious.

First, there are at least thousands of other people who had the exact same experience as you, just as a result of randomness. Pardon me if I’m not going to get excited at one of thousands of people noticing what happens to be a pretty common occurrence and mistrakenly thinking it’s exceptional.

Second, if updates did cause rashes, we’d have significantly more than thousands of people getting a rash the same day as an update. (How many more is “significant” depends on much, much more advanced statistics than is suitable for this forum, including a lot of real data that doesn’t come from the back of an envelope.) But, I can assure you, if such were the case, it’d stick out like a sore … wrist.

Now will you please see a dermatologist already!?

b&

 

[G4RHL]

Apple Watch wearers report ‘burn marks and blisters’

Users claim they have been rebuffed by the US tech giant or told it was an allergy problem

www.thetimes.com