Apple Watch Import Ban Now Official, Apple Appeals Decision

[paul4339]

….They can afford to pay. So what if Apple looses a couple of billion dollars? Who would care?

…

Consumers would care… all prices flow back to the consumer… if Masimo is ask for $100 per device plus rights to future competing Apple patents, your Apple Watch will probably increase by $300.

General and legal counsel and senior advisors (for all major companies, not just Apple) are used to handling these claims and probably advised to take their chances in Appeals court. Masimo already had a loss back in April.

From Masimo perspective, their legal counsel probably advised asking (aka extending an ‘olive branch’) for the maximum amount (by doing the math for a sales ban impact) to put pressure to settle … the gamble here would be that if Masimo loses, they may get very little compensation, and it opens the door for other device makers to leverage the case. (If indeed you can buy a $5 device with similar function, it may be deemed as a worthwhile risk to take for Apple)

On top that, the Masimo CEO is trouble by its own board and shareholders for tanking the stock from 16B to 6B for shifting away from the medical industry .. with another loss Masimo can tank even more.

Apple is just calling their bluff and saying we are going to disable the function to get around the ITC sales ban, and deal with it in court.

 

[Goodeye]

Still for sale on Amazon and Best Buy.

Get yours, while supplies last.

I think that is somewhat the workaround (though I could be wrong) as Retailers would have already paid Apple for the stock and therefore are not under the ban as Apple is.

Again could be wrong. Probably am.

 

[MarkNewton2023]

Apple is now officially unable to sell the Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch Ultra 2 in the United States as the International Trade Commission's import ban has become final. This morning, the Biden administration announced that it would not veto the ban.

The Office of the United States Trade Representative said that after "careful consultations" it was opting not to reverse the ITC's decision.Apple in a statement to Reuters said that it is "taking all measures" to get the Apple Watch Ultra 2 and Apple Watch Series 9 back on store shelves as soon as possible.

Apple has filed an appeal with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington, and it has been working on a software solution that it hopes will allow it to resume sales.

The Apple Watch Series 9 and the Apple Watch Ultra 2 are not able to be sold by Apple in the United States at this time because the ITC ruled that the devices violate blood oxygen monitoring technology owned by medical device company Masimo.

The ban is limited to Apple Watch models that have a blood oxygen sensor, so the Apple Watch SE is still on sale. It also only applies to Apple retail stores in the United States, so all Apple Watch models are still available in other countries. Stores like Target, Best Buy, and Walmart are able to continue Apple Watch sales as long as supplies hold out, but Apple is not able to bring more units into the United States from overseas.

Apple will not be able to sell the Apple Watch Series 9 or the Apple Watch Ultra 2 unless the appeal is successful, it settles with Masimo, or it finds a way to change the blood oxygen sensor so it is not using Masimo's patented technology.

Article Link: Apple Watch Import Ban Now Official, Apple Appeals Decision

I suggest Apple remove oxygen sensor technology belong to Maximo, acquire Masimo or develop their own oxygen sensor technology to resolve this situation if not wanting paying Masimo license fee. It is not Tim’s fault this happening but people under him who supposedly paying attention for patent right should be responsible for. Tim is not an attorney but Chief Executive. Keeping appealing this law suit to get away from the ban is tedious and inefficient. Keep calm, find the most efficient way to resolve this legal issue, move on, make Apple Watch consumer happy and be happy😊 Life is too short for any inefficiency and unhappiness on the company and their customers/product consumers.

 

[ZZ9pluralZalpha]

Judging by the impressive and consistent amount of significant Apple Watch Series 8, 9, and Ultra 1 & 2 discounts over the past few months, I suspect Apple leadership is actually relieved by this—“sales dropped because of a patent battle” is a much more palatable report for shareholders than “sales appear to have plateaued”.

 

[raythompsontn]

You cannot have a legal protection without a way to enforce said protection, otherwise the protection would be moot

No dissenting discourse on that.

without patents would you even have the technology in question available? It might not even exist without a way for companies to protect their investment in the research required to discover it

Absolutely agree. A company that discovers something, invents something, has to have some way to recover their expenses and be rewarded for the effort. I would go so far as to say the iPhone would not exist if Apple did not have the protection of the patent system.

My point was that in patent battles the consumer almost always loses. Such battles are needed by the offending parties. One company will win, the other lose, or in some cases both lose. The expense of the battle bankrupts a company. The consumer impact is not even a consideration in such battles. I suspect that some technology has been lost due a patent argument with the winning company drained and unable to financially bring the product to market. Or just in spite keeps the product, or technique, off the market.

I think that any patent on life saving medicine should not exist. A pill that cost $100.00 a pill in the U.S. can be had in another country as a generic for $0.50. Something is wrong with that system. Our cost is too much, the other country not enough? Who knows. On the other hand, without a patent to guarantee exclusive rights to a profit would any company spend the money to develop new drugs?

I am also bitter in my attempt to get a patent and being hosed by another company. Left a very bad taste in my mouth. The expense to acquire the patent just made the process impractical. When another company developed the same process, I had prior art and use of the product, I was told to pound sand. Legally I was correct. Financially I did not stand a chance. And I lost. Well, actually I barely started.

I cannot imagine Apple intentionally infringing on a patent. According others (hearsay) five out of six people agreed.

I don't hold a lot of faith in the judges, juries, whatever, in the legal system to really understand technological patents. Several members of jury probably still have a VCR flashing 12:00 yet are asked to rule on a complicated patent.

Patents are necessary, a necessary evil in many cases. Do I have an answer? Nope, just opinion.

 

[HiVolt]

(2) Apple did not infringe the patent of a third party, but Masimo managed to get a ruling based off of a form of abusive patent litigation where they seek to enforce broad patents that shouldn’t be ordinarily enforced. In this eventuality, Apple should win on appeal.

This isn't a patent troll Apple is dealing with here. They make legitimate products in the medical industry.

 

[jz0309]

Not at all. I’ve never used mine once. I’ve talked to other Apple Watch users and prospective buyers countless times and never once heard someone mention blood ox. Anecdotal, sure, but I doubt most users know it’s there, let alone buy for that feature.

mine is on, I check it daily, everyone I know who has an AW 6 or later does the same, I've heard people in the Apple Store asking about it ... also anecdotal, sure, and I am sure most users not only know it's there ...

Let's just see what comes out of this, as of this point consumers are getting hurt, not because they cannot buy the watch from Apple (they can go to other retailers) but because Apple cannot repair out of warranty S6 and later anymore. Because apple's "repair" is a refurb

 

[Muzzakus]

Tim Crook

 

[MRxROBOT]

Read the patient. It is very obvious what is covered and the language is not very technical. Masimo seems to have invented something basic and new and has a fundamental patent. It is as if they came up with the idea that round objects can be used as "wheels". There is no way to make not-round wheels. roundness is not just a detail that could be done with some other shape. Masim's patent is kind of like roundness. They invented the idea of using coloreed LEDs that are held in place in the skin, even the idea that there needs to be a "bump" on the device to force the LED into skin contact. There is no "software fix" for this. Look it up. The patent is online

This is MacRumors.... Nearly nobody dives deeper than the title of an article.

 

[hans1972]

Read the patient. It is very obvious what is covered and the language is not very technical. Masimo seems to have invented something basic and new and has a fundamental patent. It is as if they came up with the idea that round objects can be used as "wheels". There is no way to make not-round wheels. roundness is not just a detail that could be done with some other shape. Masim's patent is kind of like roundness. They invented the idea of using coloreed LEDs that are held in place in the skin, even the idea that there needs to be a "bump" on the device to force the LED into skin contact. There is no "software fix" for this. Look it up. The patent is online

There are five claims spread across two patents.

Maybe you could point to those five claims or at least the two patents?

I have read one of the patents with three of the claims and I don't find it clear at all.

 

[eifelbube]

I'm going to bet your opinion would be different if this was about a Masimo watch import ban because they were found to have infringed on 2 patents owned by Apple.

Very sad when people blindly defend Apple no matter what.

Agreed. That is another ill effect of Apple’s ecosystem monopoly … the lemming effect

 

[JapanApple]

.............and the hate-mongering lives another day. Good Greif!

 

[skitidetdu]

If this continues I’m willing to export from Europe, only taking Apple tax as to cover expenses. 😏.

Jokingly aside this could cause trouble if they can’t solve it.

 

[robd003]

Apple should buy Masimo, keep the patent portfolio and then spin out the business and force them to license the patents from Apple.

 

[Someyoungguy]

No dissenting discourse on that.

Absolutely agree. A company that discovers something, invents something, has to have some way to recover their expenses and be rewarded for the effort. I would go so far as to say the iPhone would not exist if Apple did not have the protection of the patent system.

My point was that in patent battles the consumer almost always loses. Such battles are needed by the offending parties. One company will win, the other lose, or in some cases both lose. The expense of the battle bankrupts a company. The consumer impact is not even a consideration in such battles. I suspect that some technology has been lost due a patent argument with the winning company drained and unable to financially bring the product to market. Or just in spite keeps the product, or technique, off the market.

I think that any patent on life saving medicine should not exist. A pill that cost $100.00 a pill in the U.S. can be had in another country as a generic for $0.50. Something is wrong with that system. Our cost is too much, the other country not enough? Who knows. On the other hand, without a patent to guarantee exclusive rights to a profit would any company spend the money to develop new drugs?

I am also bitter in my attempt to get a patent and being hosed by another company. Left a very bad taste in my mouth. The expense to acquire the patent just made the process impractical. When another company developed the same process, I had prior art and use of the product, I was told to pound sand. Legally I was correct. Financially I did not stand a chance. And I lost. Well, actually I barely started.

I cannot imagine Apple intentionally infringing on a patent. According others (hearsay) five out of six people agreed.

I don't hold a lot of faith in the judges, juries, whatever, in the legal system to really understand technological patents. Several members of jury probably still have a VCR flashing 12:00 yet are asked to rule on a complicated patent.

Patents are necessary, a necessary evil in many cases. Do I have an answer? Nope, just opinion.

Licensing fees will not necessarily change the watch price if consumers are unable/unwilling to pay such an increase. Apple still has to set prices that the market will bear. Incidentally, my AW4 doesn't have this feature, but my Garmin does. Assuming Garmin has a deal with Massimo, I'm not sure why anyone would apologize for Apple.

 

[jonblatho]

require Apple to disable the blood ox by software

This might be a viable solution only if it strictly impacted watches that people don't already own and use. Otherwise, making hardware that tens of millions of people own less useful — to the extent that people find the Blood Oxygen app useful — than it was yesterday would be terrible PR for Apple.

 

[bizzle]

It gives me so much joy that Apple is getting a taste of their own medicine.

 

[flofixer]

Read the patient. It is very obvious what is covered and the language is not very technical. Masimo seems to have invented something basic and new and has a fundamental patent. It is as if they came up with the idea that round objects can be used as "wheels". There is no way to make not-round wheels. roundness is not just a detail that could be done with some other shape. Masim's patent is kind of like roundness. They invented the idea of using coloreed LEDs that are held in place in the skin, even the idea that there needs to be a "bump" on the device to force the LED into skin contact. There is no "software fix" for this. Look it up. The patent is online

I haven't read the patent since it appears to be several that were contested, but your description sound like an ordinary pulse oximeter that has been available for decades.

 

[ChrisA]

This might be a viable solution only if it strictly impacted watches that people don't already own and use. Otherwise, making hardware that people own less useful — to the extent that people find the Blood Oxygen app useful — than it was yesterday would be terrible PR for Apple.

It would likely be cheaper for Apple to pay the license fee for the patents than the class action lawsuit for disabling a feature their customers paid for.

 

[Scoob Redux]

This is what happens when you have a leader that only understands money and not technology.

I mean, when is the board going to stand up and say, "You mean we can't sell a product that you spent $100 million developing because you forgot to check the patents?"

"Forgot"? What makes you think that? Apple stole the technology with full knowledge that it was illegal. That was the business decision. This isn't some "mistake".

 

[ChrisA]

I haven't read the patent since it appears to be several that were contested, but your description sound like an ordinary pulse oximeter that has been available for decades.

I was wrong, what Masimo invented was the modern method of analyzing the data that allows measurement while the person is active and in motion. Before this, the person had to be inactive and stable.

It seems simply reading a patent is not enough, you have to know what is new and what is not in the patent.

 

[MallardDuck]

This seems like a classic case of ‘big tech interviews little company in the guise of a partnership/acquisition and steals ideas/ip/tech’.

Apple is losing both the PR and legal battle here…they look like a bully.

 

[jamesnajera]

May want to mention that Apple will not be able to service certain watches either.

“In a potential headache for owners of the Apple Watch Series 6, 7 and 8 — all of which include the blood-oxygen feature — out-of-warranty watches won’t be eligible for hardware repairs until the ban is lifted.”

Apple to Fight Watch Ban in Court After White House Declines to Act

Apple Inc., seeking to defend a business that generates roughly $17 billion a year, is appealing a US sales ban of its smartwatches after the White House refused to overturn the measure.

www.msn.com

 

[jaw04005]

This seems like a classic case of ‘big tech interviews little company in the guise of a partnership/acquisition and steals ideas/ip/tech’.

Masimo is a major player in healthcare technology and earns revenue of over $1 billion per year.

Let's keep this in perspective.

It's not a mom and pop.

 

[Born Again]

This is an insane response to a finding of infringement for some minimally important feature that most users probably don’t even know exists. Require a royalty, require Apple to disable the blood ox by software, but don’t ban sales of the entire device. IP law run complexly amok.

How dare you. This is the most American thing you need to support Massimo. Kiss their feet.

Masimo is a major player in healthcare technology and earns revenue of over $1 billion per year.

Let's keep this in perspective.

It's not a mom and pop.

lol - 😂 my friend. Oh my friend. Are you looking for sympathy for Apple who is clearly in the wrong here?

Apple loses my friend. I hope mosimo gets their fair share.