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grimmwit

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 14, 2004
18
1
Rio Rancho, NM
So, I've been dutifully walking the same path daily. I always have my watch on, and manually set it to "Outdoor walk". I also have my iPhone X with me, but just shove it my pocket, "just in case".

One day, I forgot my phone. My active calories, as logged by my watch, were considerably higher. So the next day, I left the phone home again. Same result. Next day, took the phone, and my active calories went down again.

7/10/18 (With phone)
377 active calories

7/12/18 (Without phone)
618 active calories

7/13/18 (Without phone)
743 active calories

7/14/18 (With phone)
432 active calories

Any thoughts on why this is occurring? Big question to me, is which set of data is correct?

Tried searching the forum, but didn't see this discussed previously.

Thanks,

Grimmwit
 
That's really interesting results, especially since I would've thought the calories would be higher with the phone with a potential of double counting but guess it's the opposite.

Assuming you're doing the same amount of effort overall, the calorie difference is so extreme that even rules out potential whether condition being a factor as well.

Are the distances walked the same on the phone and watch?
Are you using different apps on the devices?
Are your health info synched?
 
That's really interesting results, especially since I would've thought the calories would be higher with the phone with a potential of double counting but guess it's the opposite.

Assuming you're doing the same amount of effort overall, the calorie difference is so extreme that even rules out potential whether condition being a factor as well.

Are the distances walked the same on the phone and watch?
Are you using different apps on the devices?
Are your health info synched?


Thanks for the response.

Distance should be the same, though there is some variance day to day as logged by my watch. I walk the same path every day.
The stats I provided are all from the Apple Watch application on my phone.
Not sure about your third question. The info is synced from my watch to my phone, if that's what you mean....

When I look in the Apple Health application on my phone, I see the data recorded from my watch in there. Not sure if that's relevant or useful, but figured I'd mention it.

I agree it seems squirrelly. For now, just keeping my phone off while walking. But still leaves me wondering which data is correct.

Thanks again,

Grimmwit
 
Thanks for the response.

Distance should be the same, though there is some variance day to day as logged by my watch. I walk the same path every day.
The stats I provided are all from the Apple Watch application on my phone.
Not sure about your third question. The info is synced from my watch to my phone, if that's what you mean....

When I look in the Apple Health application on my phone, I see the data recorded from my watch in there. Not sure if that's relevant or useful, but figured I'd mention it.

I agree it seems squirrelly. For now, just keeping my phone off while walking. But still leaves me wondering which data is correct.

Thanks again,

Grimmwit

Did you go through this https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht207941

Did you calibrate the watch recently? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516

I would trust the watch data more than the phone IMHO.
 
Assuming you have good gps reception I don’t think the calibration should matter. As stated in the link, it is for when you have limited reception.
 
Assuming you have good gps reception I don’t think the calibration should matter. As stated in the link, it is for when you have limited reception.

Good point - and if I'm reading the article correctly, I'm basically doing the calibration daily, except for 70 minutes (the duration of my walk) instead of 20 called for the instructions.

I'm now living in New Mexico. The trail I'm walking is in the open with plenty of visible sky, so don't think GPS visibility would be a problem. And it still begs the question why having my phone with me skews the results to much.....

Thanks all for the input. I'll keep watching for any other suggestions.

Grimmwit
 
This is interesting. It shouldn’t be that much difference even if it’s using your phone when you brought it along.

Could you check your data source on Steps in Health. What’s the data source for it looks like?
 
I just checked mine. I walk the dogs every evening for about 2.47 miles (love the accuracy of GPS!), and probably 2 evenings a week I leave my personal iPhone at home and just take the work one as i am on call (my watch is paired to my personal).

Looking back, it seems I get 30% more calories and exercise minutes without the phone!

iPhone 8+ AWS3 LTE.

Going to look into this further.
 
7/10/18 (With phone)
377 active calories

7/12/18 (Without phone)
618 active calories

7/13/18 (Without phone)
743 active calories

7/14/18 (With phone)
432 active calories
Are you sure that this is always the same walk? Is the distance the same? Is the pace/time you spent walking roughly the same? Avg Heart Rate?
Yes, there are significantly more calories detected when you leav your phone at home. But the thing which seems really odd to me is, that the variance between the walks (comparing the two walks with/without phone against each other) is huge.

I normally do the same walk every evening (3.2km in total or 2miles) and my burned calories are always roughly within 15 calories. Pace/time is also roughly the same (+/- 1 or 2 minutes) and distances varies by about 100m. I always take the phone with me.
I've never seen such a huge varancie in my walks under the same conditions (377 vs. 432 in your case).

It could well be that having the phone with you or not is a factor but my first assumption seeing the data is, that the total time of your walk is different in all 4 cases.
 
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I've just did some testing on this.

I have a standard loop around the office that I have walked for years. Depending on GPS signal, it tracks between 0.99 to 1.05 miles.

I typically walk with my phone in my hand or in my pocket (usually in my hand so that I can read stuff).

Today, I left my phone on my desk on purpose to test.

Monday - walk with phone - 1.02 miles; 113 bpm; 71 active calories; 103 total calories; 17'21" avg pace
Wednesday - walk with phone - 1.06 miles; 103 bpm; 73 active calories; 108 total calories; 18'25" avg pace
Today - walk without phone - 1.01 miles; 113 bpm; 126 active calories; 156 total calories; 17'03" avg pace

So it looks like I get about 75% extra credit without the phone. This seems in line with results posted above.

Ideas ...

1. When I walked without the phone, I walk a little faster because I'm not reading my screen. Maybe my arms swing more (and more naturally too). ---- I don't think this would (or should) affect the data that much.

2. When I walk on the treadmill (indoor walk), I usually get between 95 to 105 active calories per mile.

3. I noticed that on the three walks above, VO2max was only recorded on the walk that I had the phone with me. Perhaps that's the difference. With the phone, the VO2max is used for the calorie count, and without the phone, the algorithm used is a basic MET*HR method.
 
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This is interesting. It shouldn’t be that much difference even if it’s using your phone when you brought it along.

Could you check your data source on Steps in Health. What’s the data source for it looks like?

For devices, it shows my watch & iPhone. Is there more information in the drill-down menu's you were interested in seeing?
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Is the watch registering the swinging of the arm it's on, while the phone is just registering the forward movement?

I make a point to walk with nothing in my left hand, allowing it to swing freely as I walk (arm with watch on it).
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Are you sure that this is always the same walk? Is the distance the same? Is the pace/time you spent walking roughly the same? Avg Heart Rate?
Yes, there are significantly more calories detected when you leav your phone at home. But the thing which seems really odd to me is, that the variance between the walks (comparing the two walks with/without phone against each other) is huge.

I normally do the same walk every evening (3.2km in total or 2miles) and my burned calories are always roughly within 15 calories. Pace/time is also roughly the same (+/- 1 or 2 minutes) and distances varies by about 100m. I always take the phone with me.
I've never seen such a huge varancie in my walks under the same conditions (377 vs. 432 in your case).

It could well be that having the phone with you or not is a factor but my first assumption seeing the data is, that the total time of your walk is different in all 4 cases.

Yes, the walk is always the same. I walk a sidewalk from my home, to a paved walking trail. I take the same path every time.

I am in my 50s and overweight, and not in the best shape. My walk time varies some depending on how rested I am, and frankly, how strong I'm feeling that morning. I also am walking my dog, so there are sometimes delays to clean up after him, or sometimes chat with another dog owner along the way. He also wanders side to side, so I'm not always in the center of the path. But I would not expect that to contribute to any significant variation in distance or effort.

The path follows an arroyo both directions, so it's a gradual decline going down, and incline going back. But nothing crazy.

My times in the sample provided were 67:41, 66:17, 71:16, 81:23 minutes respectively. I recall stopping to chat with another dog owner on the last day. The last day was a couple hours later in the morning, so would have been warmer outside. The others are all between roughly 6am & 7am.

Average heart rate is generally getting lower each day (I've been at this for a few weeks now).

Interesting observations in the replies. I appreciate the feedback.
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What model Apple Watch do you have? Series 0, 1, 2, or 3?

It is a Series 2.
 
For devices, it shows my watch & iPhone. Is there more information in the drill-down menu's you were interested in seeing?

Can you dive down to see the walks on those days with your phone using what devices?
 
And it’s not only a run with phone & without. My Indoor Runs on Tuesday & Thursday are also different. I ran both with iPhone to listen to Podcast. Set the machine the same. Time, distance & pace are almost identical. Only difference is heartbeat but can a 4 BPM difference in 50 mins run results in 80 cal apart?
 

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Dumb question here, as I am not an AW owner.

Does Health App treat AW similar to other Health sources in that everything has a priority? Could be phone is #1 and AW #2, so when phone and AW on the walk/hike, phone is under recording and taking precedence vs. AW-only will be the only data set to get recorded and used.
 
Dumb question here, as I am not an AW owner.

Does Health App treat AW similar to other Health sources in that everything has a priority? Could be phone is #1 and AW #2, so when phone and AW on the walk/hike, phone is under recording and taking precedence vs. AW-only will be the only data set to get recorded and used.
This discussion is pretty technical, so I'll risk making it more so.

The AW/Activity/Health app system is a little confusing because data populates in multiple areas without much explanation.

For instance, there is a difference between the Red Move Ring and Active Calories. Both are measured in units of "calories" and if you stay entirely with Apple apps, they are equal. However, if you use 3rd party apps, these two categories will likely not be equal. This is because Apple probably uses a different algorithm to calculate calorie burn than the 3rd party app vendors.

OK, another issue is that the Red Move Ring only uses the AW as a source device. Active Calories can use 3rd party apps and even iPhone apps. So if you leave your AW at home and go for a run just using your iPhone and a 3rd party app, you will get Active Calorie credit, but you won't get credit on either the Red or Green (exercise) rings.

Anyway, for the OP's issue (and others on this thread), the sorting order for devices is irrelevant for the Move Ring as the AW is the only source allowed.
 
This discussion is pretty technical, so I'll risk making it more so.

The AW/Activity/Health app system is a little confusing because data populates in multiple areas without much explanation.

For instance, there is a difference between the Red Move Ring and Active Calories. Both are measured in units of "calories" and if you stay entirely with Apple apps, they are equal. However, if you use 3rd party apps, these two categories will likely not be equal. This is because Apple probably uses a different algorithm to calculate calorie burn than the 3rd party app vendors.

OK, another issue is that the Red Move Ring only uses the AW as a source device. Active Calories can use 3rd party apps and even iPhone apps. So if you leave your AW at home and go for a run just using your iPhone and a 3rd party app, you will get Active Calorie credit, but you won't get credit on either the Red or Green (exercise) rings.

Anyway, for the OP's issue (and others on this thread), the sorting order for devices is irrelevant for the Move Ring as the AW is the only source allowed.
This isn’t true. I use a third party app all the time at the gym on my phone and it gives me credit on the red and green rings.
 
This isn’t true. I use a third party app all the time at the gym on my phone and it gives me credit on the red and green rings.
Which apps? And are you wearing the AW when using these iPhone apps?

EDIT - I stand corrected. I just did an experiment using Endomondo where I walked for a 1/2 mile without wearing the AW. After the walk, it took a few minutes for the data to show up in the Activity Rings, but it did show up. Both the Move and Exercise rings updated with the Endomondo workout.

I wonder why NRC didn't work, but I'm not surprised since the NRC app is pretty garbage.
 
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I wonder why NRC didn't work, but I'm not surprised since the NRC app is pretty garbage.

NRC, and Nike Training app, does work for me. I know it because it’s the only app I’m using for outdoor running & I wouldn’t complete my ring if it doesn’t fill mine.
 
In my experience, it's not unusual to see wild variation. at least from time to time. I walk for 3 miles (at one time) almost every day. Sometimes 4 miles, sometimes 2.5. Usually on the street but sometimes on a path and occasionally on sand. Results for Move and Exercise rings can vary. It's my understanding that a well-defined measure is it's 100 calories per mile, walk or run. With phone and watch, I never get close to that.
Eh - it gets me moving.
 
In my experience, it's not unusual to see wild variation. at least from time to time. I walk for 3 miles (at one time) almost every day. Sometimes 4 miles, sometimes 2.5. Usually on the street but sometimes on a path and occasionally on sand. Results for Move and Exercise rings can vary. It's my understanding that a well-defined measure is it's 100 calories per mile, walk or run. With phone and watch, I never get close to that.
Eh - it gets me moving.
There are so many factors that go into how many calories you burn I am not sure how you can say 1 mile equals 100 calories. I ran just over 3 the other day and it was 482 total calories.
 
you are going to have to test using only the phone in your pocket and NOT doing any arm swing.
yes , I am semi-kidding.

I did test once using 2 apple watches (one on each arm) to see if the newer GPS watch gave different numbers.
Was testing the new version of the Nike-run club app

The watch is a good tool just to get me outside to walk.

---Now if the watch would just tell me to sit down so I can get the 12 stand up rings closed ---
 
There are so many factors that go into how many calories you burn
You are quite right. I had relied on some cursory searching of web links, but more authoritative sites show that there are many factors in determining calorie burn rate.
 
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