Apple Watch Series 3 Facing LTE Setbacks in China, Likely Due to Government 'Security Concerns'

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. solipsism macrumors 6502a

    solipsism

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    #26
    That's literally impossible with so much of the technology coming from around the world. You couldn't even bring assembly back to the US today, but let's say that in a decade automation is at a point that you could for just the US market you still have a pointlessly excessive price compared to China.
     
  2. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #27
    Sure they could. Motorola proved that with the X assembly in Texas.

    Apple already assembles Mac Pros there.

    LOL at worrying about "pointlessly excessive price" when talking about Apple :D
     
  3. citysnaps, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017

    citysnaps macrumors 68030

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    #28
    But Chinese-based manufacturing is not what's in jeopardy. They love the $$$ from building 200million+ iPhones and loads of other devices per year. The issue is selling Apple devices in China that meet Chinese govt approval.

    With respect to bringing that manufacturing to the US, that super-efficient, flexible, and turn-on-a-dime (when needed) manufacturing infrastructure simply does not exist in the US, and will likely never will.
     
  4. GrumpyMom macrumors 603

    GrumpyMom

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    #29
    Well the prices are already getting so far up there...sigh, you make a good point but the status quo is so unpalatable.

    I read an interesting article yesterday about the Chinese police having cell phones with facial recognition capabilities that they are deploying on citizens in a Muslim enclave for the purpose of tracking and controlling their activities. I wonder if the phones have tech similar to what Apple is putting into the iPhone X. The article didn’t say what kind of phone or software they were using.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/meghara/th...s-already-here?utm_term=.rv6oDOmxb#.djKXyg8E6

    If you all don’t like Buzzfeed as a news source just look up terms relating to the surveillance of the Uyghur in China.

    When I read more and more about the Orwellian surveillance state China imposes on its people, I am aghast that someone who is so vehement as Tim Cook about progressive views and human rights is as visibly enthusiastic as he is to be doing business in China and promoting Apple so heavily to China. Their money and power have too many “progressives” in their thrall. It’s shocking how much of our entertainment industry, so vocally leftist as it is, is gradually becoming owned by Chinese business interests and becoming self censoring. It’s not blatant yet, but if you start reading up on the subject, it’s a bit concerning about how far things might go.
     
  5. Jetfire macrumors 6502

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    #30
    No the problem is carriers don't want esims (US carriers mostly) Apple has been trying for years to get rid of sim cards. I think the main problem is Verizon. Everyone else uses Apple's sim card but if I'm on Verizon networks I have to use their sim card.

    As for China's problem with esim I believe the esim card number can be changed. Ran into when I went to activate mine on launch day. Verizon need the sim number but the Apple watch doesn't come with one. I think it's generated at activation.
     
  6. SeminalSage macrumors member

    SeminalSage

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    #31
    Yes, as in the Government can't track the users well enough and guarantee it's security. ;)
    --- Post Merged, Oct 19, 2017 ---
    That's because it's not about 'standing up', it's about following the law of the land, whichever land that is. TC has said that Apple will follow the law in which ever country they operate. And, surprise, the laws in China are different than in the USA.
     
  7. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #32
    Tim Cook serves up a lot of Kool Aid when it comes to this topic.

    What a lot of companies have found out, is that bringing back assembly to the US has resulted in more efficiency and a lot more worker collaboration with figuring out ways to optimize assembly and even design.

    True, you can't go around waking up American workers at midnight when Apple can't seem to get their design finished in time. But that's a rare occurrence. What's more important is being able to ramp up production at a sales launch each year. This kind of seasonal work is already quite common in the US, with hundreds of thousands of workers especially moving around the Christmas season to work at places like Amazon and UPS.
    --
    Back to Tim, he once made that famous statement that all the tool and die makers in the US would fit in the meeting room (which held about 5,000). The naive assumed this meant there were not enough to go around. Which is of course what he wanted people to think.

    What he meant was that there's now about 5,000 COMPANIES in the US, not just that many machinists. Moreover, you likely need only need one company to create what's needed for a factory.

    Again, Motorola via Flextronics already proved you could make phones (and customized ones at that!!!) in the US, for only about $10 more per phone.

    Interestingly, Apple also uses Flextronics for their US Mac assembly plant.
     
  8. nwcs macrumors 65816

    nwcs

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    #33
    I knew my comment would bring a rise out of a lot of people. But it’s interesting that when it is a US policy he “stands up for the right thing” as he defines it but when it’s another country he remains silent. That shows his character is not about “doing the right thing” but whatever benefits him in the context.
     
  9. solipsism, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017

    solipsism macrumors 6502a

    solipsism

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    #34
    1) Those are examples… that prove my point. You have one of the worst assembled products which is an abject failure on many levels, and very low yield product. What is brilliant model you have that says you can get final assembly of a quarter billion iPhones a year in the US?

    2) That's not manufacturing of all the components , that's only final assembly.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 19, 2017 ---
    We may perceive the price as high compared to cheap devices but the price is low compared to what it would cost to have all the manufacturing in the US.

    And that doesn't even consider getting all the patent holders to be US owned or limitations with even building a product if we can't certain components manufactured in the US. That also doesn't even consider the cost or availability of having all materials, like Al, Si, or Li, sourced in the US. I think the battery is manufactured in Thailand, but the Lithium probably comes from China.
     
  10. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #35
    You talking about the Mac Pro?

    Or the Moto X, which was built very nicely. I have had two, one custom made, and one stock (which is STILL my reliable daily driver, in fact).

    Yes, they could ramp up production here. It's just a matter of not wanting to wring every penny out for profit.

    Freaking automobiles are built in the US, and they're infinitely harder to assemble than a simple phone.

    Already pointed out that Flextronics said it only cost about another $10 to make phones in the US, and that was with lower quantities and no robotics.

    That's the same as Foxconn. Parts have to be shipped in from all over.

    Heck, the iPhone CPU is made in Texas, the glass in Kentucky, and other chips here as well.
     
  11. citysnaps macrumors 68030

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    #36
    Yes some companies have brought manufacturing back. But with volumes (and quality expectations) nowhere near Apples'. The infrastructure simply does not exist here in the US. I suspect you are not aware of the immense physical size of Hon Hai (Foxxconn) and others' operations in China. If the US government made contract manufacturing a national priority, I suspect it could be done. Over many years and substantial investment and subsidies.

    How many of that particular spec-your-own Moto phone were made? Tens of thousands at best, I suspect. Geez, I've used Flextronics in the past, and what I was doing was vey small potatoes. They're not who you use for huge volumes. Thus the Mac Pro being ideal for being assembled by them.

    "Tim Cook serves up a lot of Kool Aid when it comes to this topic."

    Not Tim's. The opinions of experts in large Apple-like scale contract manufacturing.
     
  12. jujufreeze macrumors 6502

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    #37
    China can do no wrong in Tim Cook's eyes. Ever obsequious and eager to please, TC doesn't care about China's shady practices or the long term repercussions for a bit more market share.
     
  13. Allyance macrumors regular

    Allyance

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    #38
    The government in China controls all SIMS for traditional phones, since the eSIM is built in, they figure they can't control it. Has nothing to do with Tim Cook.

    "Series 3 devices are paired with a mobile device on an existing plan and use their embedded eSIM to connect to wireless service when the mobile phone isn't nearby or is turned off. China regulates SIM cards used in mobile phones and requires those who get one to register with their real name. Since the eSIMs in Apple Watches aren't given out by the Chinese government, it likely doesn't know how to regulate the eSIMs yet, nor does it know how to validate the identity of the Apple Watch user."
     
  14. lazard macrumors 65816

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    #39
    Because it would be career suicide for him to piss off a country that accounts for ~25% of Apple's annual revenue.
     
  15. DotCom2 macrumors 68040

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    #40
    I just know that I am ONE LUCKY person that I DON'T live in China!
    I do live in California though, so......
     
  16. kemal macrumors 65816

    kemal

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    #41
    When the iPhone doesn't answer, your cell company will ring the watch. The watch is actually a phone in itself on a special plan coordinated by your carrier.
     
  17. Tech198 macrumors G4

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    Australia, Perth
    #42
    Seems China has all sorts of issues. I would of thought since you have an eSim in the watch it would work the same as a direct connection from the phone to the carrier... I guess anything *new* is gotta cause grief at first.
     
  18. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #43
    Even Google has shown more courage.

    For years China censored their search results. At first, Google figured that it was better to at least be partly available than not available at all.

    But in early 2010, they finally couldn't excuse the Chinese government censorship any more and redirected Google China queries to Hong Kong where responses were not censored. A couple of months later China banned almost all access to Google and many of their products.

    Because of that, Google went from having around 36% of Chinese searches and growing, down to only 1%.
     
  19. Kaibelf macrumors 68000

    Kaibelf

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    #44
    I don't get people like you. If by "getting a backbone" you mean telling China to change THEIR laws to match what you inexplicably think you're in a position to decide, and therefore get the products shut out of that country, no Tim won't. And no one with a lick of business sense would do such a stupid thing. If you want him to go all Trump and make a fool of Apple, then perhaps you're backing the wrong company.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 19, 2017 ---
    You'd bring the manufacturing back to the US, and then the price point would be so far above market that no consumers would buy it (which is why Apple moved manufacturing to China in the first place). Also, yes, US CITIZENS STAND UP TO THE US GOVERNMENT. It's kind of part of what we call civic duty.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 19, 2017 ---
    1. The Moto X is a dud and that company is a zombie being subsidized by Lenovo at this point.
    2. The Mac Pro, to start, is so much more expensive than the competition that it's virtually impossible to move. Also, the ONLY reason they assemble in Texas is for TAA compliance.
     
  20. nwcs macrumors 65816

    nwcs

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    #45
    I explained my statement already. That you disagree is your choice. Tim is in a position to affect positive change in a country known for repression of those they disagree with but refuses. He uses his bully pulpit in the US but refuses anywhere else. It has nothing to do with laws but everything to do with influence. That there were laws Tim disagreed with in the US is known. It didn’t stop him from trying to influence the government. How is that different?
     
  21. fairuz, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017

    fairuz macrumors 6502

    fairuz

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    #46
    Keeps on giving me headaches trying to read through the standard. And then implementing it. Haha
    Not saying it's a bad standard. It's just a big one.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 19, 2017 ---
    Sad story, like with Google. China's government again proves to be difficult to deal with.
     
  22. T.j.p. macrumors newbie

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    #47
    delete this please --- accidentally posted to the wrong thread.
     
  23. Robert.Walter macrumors 65816

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    Jul 10, 2012
    #48
    Apple stood up to the USG because it was violating the Constitution and what it was asking of Apple would endanger the security and privacy of all users in the USA world wide.

    The Chinese govt is also beholden to Apple to keep those jobs. It’s a mutually beneficial and codependent arrangement.

    I suspect that the subtiles of such topics are lost on you though.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 20, 2017 ---
    Could totally bring assy to the USA. The finished product would have significantly different quality, prices and profit though.
     
  24. airrodgers, Oct 20, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017

    airrodgers macrumors newbie

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    Oct 20, 2017
    #49
    This is a compliance issue in which an apple product doesn't meet the regulation requirement of a country in which it want to sell its smart watch in...This issue would have been avoided if Apple have a good compliance officer a position that understand the law of the country where they are operating in
     
  25. nicho, Oct 21, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017

    nicho macrumors 68000

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    #50
    It can hardly have come as a surprise to them. LTE iPads sold in China don't come with an Apple Sim for the same reasons as this.
     

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