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ipedro

macrumors 603
Original poster
Nov 30, 2004
6,284
8,646
Toronto, ON
watchOS makes AppleWatch's NFC chip compatible with Student ID Cards.

418e4624def835a17e13e8412cca2a43.png


I really hope that this gets expanded to general RFID tags like condo or office access fobs.

I can see the security issue with allowing AppleWatch to copy fobs. So instead, Apple could act as a fob in itself. AppleWatch would only have to make itself available as a unique ID number and access managers in your building would be able to tap your watch on their terminal and then give that number appropriate permissions/access like any other fob.

I stopped carrying keys after converting my condo locks to August smart locks but I still have to carry the fob to gain access to the building. This isn't a high level task and can be easily solved.
 

Ivanovitchk

macrumors regular
Sep 9, 2010
115
156
Paris, FR
I believe the ONLY car right now with RDIF or BT is Tesla M3. Car Fobs use a radio at 315MHz (not in the Watch). Don't think the OP was talking about cars anyway.

Far from only tesla, RFID/NFC, BT/BLE are standard on a shitton of cars for quite a few years now. Be it in the keyfob or in the car itself. Also 315M is far from the only frequency used for the so called RKE (Remote Keyless Entry) function. Plus there is LF (100kHz range) for the Passive Entry / Passive Start pings, key localization, anti relay attack, etc...
 
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Aston441

macrumors 68030
Sep 16, 2014
2,606
3,938
I HATE keyless cars. When I get stuck with them as rentals they make my (and my dog's) life miserable.

The last two times I bought a new car I had to go to the bottom package level to get an actual key. Even then, my most recent car I had to hack the ECU to turn off the damn NFC detecting module in the driver's door.

There is way too much BS electronic crap in cars these days, money wasted when it could have been utilized in tires and suspension and brakes. Don't even get me started on the horror of electric steering that is killing people, and causing the uptick in highway deaths.

Self driving cars are definitely coming. The majority today would rather play with electronic toys than actually freaking drive.
 
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Jimpilot

macrumors 68000
Sep 11, 2014
1,533
1,257
No
watchOS makes AppleWatch's NFC chip compatible with Student ID Cards.

418e4624def835a17e13e8412cca2a43.png


I really hope that this gets expanded to general RFID tags like condo or office access fobs.

I can see the security issue with allowing AppleWatch to copy fobs. So instead, Apple could act as a fob in itself. AppleWatch would only have to make itself available as a unique ID number and access managers in your building would be able to tap your watch on their terminal and then give that number appropriate permissions/access like any other fob.

I stopped carrying keys after converting my condo locks to August smart locks but I still have to carry the fob to gain access to the building. This isn't a high level task and can be easily solved.

Some cars can be unlocked and started via watch, seems a natural next step.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,492
I HATE keyless cars. When I get stuck with them as rentals they make my (and my dog's) life miserable.

money wasted when it could have been utilized in tires and suspension and brakes.

Don't even get me started on the horror of electric steering that is killing people, and causing the uptick in highway deaths..

So, what’s the relation to any of this and the OP’s thread regarding Apple Watch supporting key fobs? Seems your own tangents Derailed the Actual thread topic over nothing.
[doublepost=1528614219][/doublepost]
Some cars can be unlocked and started via watch, seems a natural next step.

The Bentley Bentayga actually had WatchOS Support where it could Control the functionality of the heating, ventilation and massaging seats.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/05/bentley-apple-watch-app-controls-passengers-wrist/amp/
 

kjmff5

macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2011
225
40
watchOS makes AppleWatch's NFC chip compatible with Student ID Cards.

418e4624def835a17e13e8412cca2a43.png


I really hope that this gets expanded to general RFID tags like condo or office access fobs.

I can see the security issue with allowing AppleWatch to copy fobs. So instead, Apple could act as a fob in itself. AppleWatch would only have to make itself available as a unique ID number and access managers in your building would be able to tap your watch on their terminal and then give that number appropriate permissions/access like any other fob.

I stopped carrying keys after converting my condo locks to August smart locks but I still have to carry the fob to gain access to the building. This isn't a high level task and can be easily solved.

What’s the process, let’s say if Apple goes for this, to get the watch to become a “key fob”?
 

bbednarz

macrumors 65816
Nov 16, 2017
1,412
3,740
Chicago
I HATE keyless cars. When I get stuck with them as rentals they make my (and my dog's) life miserable.

The last two times I bought a new car I had to go to the bottom package level to get an actual key. Even then, my most recent car I had to hack the ECU to turn off the damn NFC detecting module in the driver's door.

There is way too much BS electronic crap in cars these days, money wasted when it could have been utilized in tires and suspension and brakes. Don't even get me started on the horror of electric steering that is killing people, and causing the uptick in highway deaths.

Self driving cars are definitely coming. The majority today would rather play with electronic toys than actually freaking drive.
Why do you dislike keyless cars?
 

ipedro

macrumors 603
Original poster
Nov 30, 2004
6,284
8,646
Toronto, ON
What’s the process, let’s say if Apple goes for this, to get the watch to become a “key fob”?

A key fob is nothing but a dumb number transmitter. When you touch your fob to the pad, it powers the fob which uses that power to transmit the number which the pad captures then checks to see if that number has permission to unlock that door.

An iPhone would only have to emulate this by transmitting a number when receiving an RFID power signal from a fob pad. That’s it.

You simply take your phone to the security desk, ask them to validate your phone as a fob, they’d touch your phone to a pad, receive the number then grant that number access.
 

troy14

macrumors 6502a
Mar 25, 2008
773
130
Las Vegas (Summerlin), NV
I HATE keyless cars. When I get stuck with them as rentals they make my (and my dog's) life miserable.

The last two times I bought a new car I had to go to the bottom package level to get an actual key. Even then, my most recent car I had to hack the ECU to turn off the damn NFC detecting module in the driver's door.

There is way too much BS electronic crap in cars these days, money wasted when it could have been utilized in tires and suspension and brakes. Don't even get me started on the horror of electric steering that is killing people, and causing the uptick in highway deaths.

Self driving cars are definitely coming. The majority today would rather play with electronic toys than actually freaking drive.

You have to touch the door handle to open up your car no matter what how does not having to use the fob to unlock make it harder or annoying?! That makes no sense to me...

I also don’t know what you mean by way too much electronic crap?! My car is absolutely loaded with crazy amounts of tech and it’s awesome. Automatic high beams? Adaptive cruise control? Lane keeping assist? Heated/cooled seats / steering wheel? The list goes on and on and every feature I use the crap out of and it makes everything safe and better.

The keyless entry/start really baffles me though on how one thinks that can be a hassle?
 

Newtons Apple

Suspended
Mar 12, 2014
22,757
15,254
Jacksonville, Florida
I HATE keyless cars. When I get stuck with them as rentals they make my (and my dog's) life miserable.

The last two times I bought a new car I had to go to the bottom package level to get an actual key. Even then, my most recent car I had to hack the ECU to turn off the damn NFC detecting module in the driver's door.

There is way too much BS electronic crap in cars these days, money wasted when it could have been utilized in tires and suspension and brakes. Don't even get me started on the horror of electric steering that is killing people, and causing the uptick in highway deaths.

Self driving cars are definitely coming. The majority today would rather play with electronic toys than actually freaking drive.

I would never own another car that uses a key to start it. The keyless system is far to convenient, I love all the "BS electronic crap"!
 
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Endorphine88

macrumors 6502
Feb 12, 2018
263
192
Philadelphia, PA
I HATE keyless cars. When I get stuck with them as rentals they make my (and my dog's) life miserable.

The last two times I bought a new car I had to go to the bottom package level to get an actual key. Even then, my most recent car I had to hack the ECU to turn off the damn NFC detecting module in the driver's door.

There is way too much BS electronic crap in cars these days, money wasted when it could have been utilized in tires and suspension and brakes. Don't even get me started on the horror of electric steering that is killing people, and causing the uptick in highway deaths.

Self driving cars are definitely coming. The majority today would rather play with electronic toys than actually freaking drive.
So you're the one person left in America that Ford is making car keys for ?
 

Ivanovitchk

macrumors regular
Sep 9, 2010
115
156
Paris, FR
A key fob is nothing but a dumb number transmitter. When you touch your fob to the pad, it powers the fob which uses that power to transmit the number which the pad captures then checks to see if that number has permission to unlock that door.

10 years ago, yes.

Nowadays keyfobs do an uber shitton of things. Speaking way more than 10k lines of code in them. They do amongst other, multiple channel rssi measurements, time of flight measurements, anti relay attack strategy enforcement, blacklistings & anti tamper mechanisms, accelerometer handling, ultra-granular battery management and sleep modes, environmental condition monitoring, advanced diagnostics modes, multi layered symetric & asymetric encryption schemes, secure enclave management, etc...

keys cannot be emulated by phones with something as simple as code TX/RX. The phone as a key function takes the form of extensive and complex SDKs given to car Mfg. to embed in their own smartphone apps. Those SDKs replicate a good bit of the functions present on fobs but are still far from the technology freedom that comes with the use of custom radios & hardware present in fobs.
 
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