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Apple With Modest Expectations for 'iTV' and TV Show Rentals?
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As long as we're streaming from a Mac this won't be a mainstream product. This thing needs to get everyone on board. I need True Blood, Mad Men, Dexter, and also have some sort of way to "surf" or discover new shows. I can't do all these things without Cable right now. Rentals are the way to go because I don't want to buy a show I'll only watch once. iOS would be really nice along with a way to subscribe to podasts. Also, include a FaceTime compatible camera. Id like to be able to control this is the Magic Trackpad and ipad (and iphone/touch). Everything subsidized somewhat by iAds. I would pay $400 for all of this.
As long as we're streaming from a Mac this won't be a mainstream product. This thing needs to get everyone on board. I need True Blood, Mad Men, Dexter, and also have some sort of way to "surf" or discover new shows. I can't do all these things without Cable right now. Rentals are the way to go because I don't want to buy a show I'll only watch once. iOS would be really nice along with a way to subscribe to podasts. Also, include a FaceTime compatible camera. Id like to be able to control this is the Magic Trackpad and ipad (and iphone/touch). Everything subsidized somewhat by iAds. I would pay $400 for all of this.
Going in with that attitude, of course it's not going to be a hit.
Attitude?
LOL. Dude, these ain't kids sitting in the playground. This is a multibillion company that turned complete markets upside down and have essentially shaped the future of technology. Multiple times. If they think there is still no market, then there is still no market. An "attitude" wouldn't make any difference.
Seriously. A college football app, watching live games or games you missed from earlier in the season, plus one for the NFL, in-app purchasing for Fantasy content?
You'd have to unify content between providers, or have it re-broadcast the actual content (your "NFL app" only plays live games from CBS affiliates if you also have the "CBS app" subscription).
It seems like iOS 4 is nearly ideal for monetizing this type of content.
I'd much prefer 720p with decent compression rates over 1080p at crappy rates.
720p with MP4 AVC at 16Mb please! This is comparable to TV broadcast HD.
16Mb still looks crap compared to Bluray though.
Then why bother with a product at all ? Seems counter productive to put effort into something you don't think will be all that big a success. And it really doesn't put a positive mindset out there for your customers if you're like "well we have this thing, we don't think it's going to be a success, but buy it anyway".
Really, attitude is important.
Or 1080p with decent compression rates would be even better. Why limit what the hardware can output ?
Apple's just saying that because they don't wanna look like failures if it doesn't succeed. But if if surpasses the low expectations, they will be the new heroes of the TV industry.
When the iPhone was introduced, the expectations were "low" as well. Steve knows what he was doing. Although, that was more of a sure thing, as far as a success.
When the iPhone was introduced, the expectations were "low" as well. Steve knows what he was doing. Although, that was more of a sure thing, as far as a success.
As a current Apple TV owner, I'm looking forward to 99 cent rentals for the simple reason that the re-watch value of most TV is about zero. Plus, you buy an episode to watch on your Apple TV and your linked Mac/PC then proceeds to start trying to either sync or redownload multiple GB that you a) don't want on your PC and b) aren't going to watch again.
I would really love Netflix app (and maybe Hulu). But I'm doubtful that apps will be supported on legacy hardware such as mine.
For the people complaining that the rental model doesn't make sense for folks with kids, hey you're right. But it's just a buck more to buy it (and stream from iTunes).
And to the 1080P or die folk: if the content is gonna be streamed over your broadband connection, 90% of the people don't have a connection capable of that. The sole remaining use is as a head-end for ripped BlueRay content or illegal torrents, and Apple is never going to go there.
I would really love Netflix app (and maybe Hulu). But I'm doubtful that apps will be supported on legacy hardware such as mine.
For the people complaining that the rental model doesn't make sense for folks with kids, hey you're right. But it's just a buck more to buy it (and stream from iTunes).
And to the 1080P or die folk: if the content is gonna be streamed over your broadband connection, 90% of the people don't have a connection capable of that. The sole remaining use is as a head-end for ripped BlueRay content or illegal torrents, and Apple is never going to go there.
Compression rate for 1080p would need to be 45% greater to have similar quality to 720p at x rate.
I don't think the average Internet connection in countries such as the USA or the UK would play nicely with such huge files.
People want streaming HD video. If the average is Internet connection is 3Mb/s, I'd much prefer 2.5Mb/s at 720p over 1080p if it is streamed.
And again, why limit the hardware ? Just stream 720p content all you want while the infrastructure isn't there, but ship 1080p capable hardware.
If this is true, I am glad to see that Apple is taking (what I think) a realistic view on it. It will be a great device to get what you have in your iTunes library on your TV, plus all those iOS apps that fit a TV interactive experience. However, overall, I think it is going to be crippled, because I believe Apple is trying to create a new "Matrix/Construct/Reality" inside the Internet, a world where the Internet is not complete anarchy, and a way for Music/TV Industries, and others of the sort to have new business models allowing them to make money in this fast paced evolving Internet. Old business models of the 80s and 90s for these industries are pretty much gone, something new has to come, and Apple, Google, Verizon know this.
I think the iTV can evolve into a lot more, and this new version is to keep the foot in the door that was started with Apple TV.
I also think the current Apple TV is probably better (in hardware) than what the new one is going to be, it is a shame that iOS will not be ported to it (maybe I am wrong and iOS will be ported to it).
I think Kevin Rose was way off on this, and I am glad Apple is not going to pitch it as revolutionary. Apple does have to continue to do something though, because VOD from cable providers is getting better and better.
I think the iTV can evolve into a lot more, and this new version is to keep the foot in the door that was started with Apple TV.
I also think the current Apple TV is probably better (in hardware) than what the new one is going to be, it is a shame that iOS will not be ported to it (maybe I am wrong and iOS will be ported to it).
I think Kevin Rose was way off on this, and I am glad Apple is not going to pitch it as revolutionary. Apple does have to continue to do something though, because VOD from cable providers is getting better and better.
And again, why limit the hardware ? Just stream 720p content all you want while the infrastructure isn't there, but ship 1080p capable hardware.
ISP's in the UK are pissy with BBC iPlayer streaming 800kb/s video to millions of people. If Apple came along and streamed a high rates, I'm sure the ISP's would be quick to traffic shape Apple's services. They do this to many other streaming services at peak hours already.
You're again talking about content. I don't give a hoot about the content, make that 720p if you want.
But don't limit the hardware to 720p. Ship 1080p capable hardware. Are you even reading my posts ?
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Launching it with 1080p hardware doesn't mean we're forced to download 1080p content. Those happy with 720p "as is" would still get their "good enough" or "right size for various bandwidth constraints" 720p and be able to enjoy it at it's fullest glory (because, just like in Macs, hardware overkill doesn't lesson the experience of software that doesn't push that hardware's limits).
But, it doesn't work the other way. You can't roll out 720p hardware and max out any 1080p software from any source. Instead, that means tradeoffs for those that care about such stuff.
Lastly, 1080p doesn't involve solely BD rips or Torrent content. I have shot very precious (to me & mine) home movies on 1080HD camcorders for 4 years now- just no
TV way to pump that content to the 1080HDTV. Youtube, etc. and Vodcasts could be a source of 1080p content until some Studio is tempted to test the profitability of selling/renting a movie/show in 1080p. Etc.
If I was Apple (#1 interest in selling lots of hardware), I would build in 1080p, and launch software tools that would help owners make their own 1080p content until the Studios and broadband infrastructure gets their acts together. I'd also either create or facilitate an add-on option so that it can also be a HD DVR. If Apple can't do it per existing arrangement with Studios (or the conspiracy theory that says all Apple cares about is selling iTunes content), leave that to someone like Elgato (and make the new iTV open enough to allow such add-ons). The ability to capture your own 1080i/p content will pressure the Studios to offer that option in the iTunes store, rather than lose such revenue opportunity to those that capture and store it via some kind of DVR-like solution.
The broadband constraint problem is unlikely to get addressed on any major scale until the pressure for more broadband starts cutting into revenue from broadband subscribers. In other words, the big corps that feed us broadband don't have huge incentive to expand the pipes, but they have legal responsibility to maximize profitability. You don't maximize profitability by sinking tons of cost into building bigger pipes. However, if customers get unhappy enough with your limited broadband solution to start quitting you for other options, incentive to compete grows. I know the problem is that for many here in the U.S., we have about 1 choice for broadband, but still, only real need (real opportunity for profit) motivates action on this front. If we accept the 720p argument based on it's ability to work with existing broadband infrastructure, there is basically NO incentive for the broadband piece of this to expand the pipe.
Note that absolutely NONE of this adversely affects the "720p is good enough" crowd, as they can continue to enjoy the smaller files sizes and lower resolution exactly as they do now. 1080p hardware would just invite the other camp- those desiring "1080p or bust"- to also buy and enjoy a next-genTV. You (720p-ers) win. They (1080p-ers) win. Apple wins, by selling more hardware than if they catered it only to the 720p group.
Nobody loses.
But, it doesn't work the other way. You can't roll out 720p hardware and max out any 1080p software from any source. Instead, that means tradeoffs for those that care about such stuff.
Lastly, 1080p doesn't involve solely BD rips or Torrent content. I have shot very precious (to me & mine) home movies on 1080HD camcorders for 4 years now- just no
TV way to pump that content to the 1080HDTV. Youtube, etc. and Vodcasts could be a source of 1080p content until some Studio is tempted to test the profitability of selling/renting a movie/show in 1080p. Etc. If I was Apple (#1 interest in selling lots of hardware), I would build in 1080p, and launch software tools that would help owners make their own 1080p content until the Studios and broadband infrastructure gets their acts together. I'd also either create or facilitate an add-on option so that it can also be a HD DVR. If Apple can't do it per existing arrangement with Studios (or the conspiracy theory that says all Apple cares about is selling iTunes content), leave that to someone like Elgato (and make the new iTV open enough to allow such add-ons). The ability to capture your own 1080i/p content will pressure the Studios to offer that option in the iTunes store, rather than lose such revenue opportunity to those that capture and store it via some kind of DVR-like solution.
The broadband constraint problem is unlikely to get addressed on any major scale until the pressure for more broadband starts cutting into revenue from broadband subscribers. In other words, the big corps that feed us broadband don't have huge incentive to expand the pipes, but they have legal responsibility to maximize profitability. You don't maximize profitability by sinking tons of cost into building bigger pipes. However, if customers get unhappy enough with your limited broadband solution to start quitting you for other options, incentive to compete grows. I know the problem is that for many here in the U.S., we have about 1 choice for broadband, but still, only real need (real opportunity for profit) motivates action on this front. If we accept the 720p argument based on it's ability to work with existing broadband infrastructure, there is basically NO incentive for the broadband piece of this to expand the pipe.
Note that absolutely NONE of this adversely affects the "720p is good enough" crowd, as they can continue to enjoy the smaller files sizes and lower resolution exactly as they do now. 1080p hardware would just invite the other camp- those desiring "1080p or bust"- to also buy and enjoy a next-gen
TV. You (720p-ers) win. They (1080p-ers) win. Apple wins, by selling more hardware than if they catered it only to the 720p group. Nobody loses.
Note that absolutely NONE of this adversely affects the "720p is good enough" crowd, as they can continue to enjoy the smaller files sizes and lower resolution exactly as they do now. This would just invite the other camp- those desiring "1080p or bust"- to also buy and enjoy a next-gen
No, it does affect the "720p is good enough" crowd, it means their hero Steve Jobs was wrong and as such, they all suffer deep physical pain lasting for a few days.
Multiple studies show that quality of the content takes over the quality of delivery system. IF what people se is good (they like it and they are into it) 720p or 1080p at whatever bitrate won't matter most likely.
The point when this really becomes interesting is going to be when the TV companies can no longer generate significant revenue from ads. Right now everyone in the industry knows that the data about audiences watching any show is extremely inaccurate. That Nielsen stuff is awful data compared to what the online companies know about their customers. The technology to track every single TV watcher is available in the current set top boxes (with a little software coding) but everyone is afraid to turn over that rock and find out what is really going on. The TV companies are also afraid to find out how many of those ads are being skipped by DVRs, but obviously that data could be collected as well. Eventually the ad buyers are going to put their collective feet down and say, "I'm not paying unless you can tell me who is actually going to watch my ad." The cable companies will have to supply that information and there is going to be a big shake up in the market to reflect the new facts.
If ads and a broad cable subscription are still a good source of revenue, the TV companies won't shift to anything new. But as the work arounds for the broad subscription (see BitTorrent and Netflix) and the ads (see DVRs) get more and more mainstream, the two main revenue sources are going to increasingly dry up. I'm not sure if this is a two year thing or a ten years from now thing, but I think everyone understands that it is inevitable.
If ads and a broad cable subscription are still a good source of revenue, the TV companies won't shift to anything new. But as the work arounds for the broad subscription (see BitTorrent and Netflix) and the ads (see DVRs) get more and more mainstream, the two main revenue sources are going to increasingly dry up. I'm not sure if this is a two year thing or a ten years from now thing, but I think everyone understands that it is inevitable.
Again talking about the content. I'm talking about hardware. Ship 1080p capable hardware. So that people who want and enjoy 1080p. It futureproofs the device and opens it up to more buyers.
Limiting to 720p based on the fact that "we will only stream 720p content" is retarded.
iTV isn't just used for TV. It's also used for movies. And again, why limit the hardware based on one category of content ? Just ship the most capable hardware.
1080p hardware can playback 720p content.
And where did you just get that TV isn't even shot in 1080p ?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/canon-5d-mark-ii-used-to-shoot-entire-house-season-finale-direc/
The Canon 5D Mark II captures at 1920x1080...