Apple 'Working Rapidly' to Bring Apple Pay to More Countries

[American Hero]

Now, I used to think like you for credit card payments back when I was young and poor, but once I realized that I was always going to pay them off in full each month, because I don't ever spend more than I have, then automatic was the way to go for them as well.

Automatic for credit is one thing. Depending on the card--- if you have a Visa Siggy, you can go over the limit. If you use a checking account directly, it's overdraft city with one or more $35 fees you owe.

I do agree with having auto credit card payments for bills. Unless you're talking about automatic payment to your credit card to make the monthly payment from your checking account?

 

[SactoGuy18]

日本

Lots of contactless payment terminals; but given Japan loves its own standards they might not be compatible.

A HUGE problem here is that NFC payments in Japan use an older NFC system that is not compatible with Apple Pay currently. It'll be interesting to see if Apple unveils an Apple Pay SDK at WWDC in a few weeks so it could make the iPhone compatible with IC card payment systems used in Japan such as the JR East Mobile Suica, Seven and i Nanaco, or Rakuten Edy NFC payment systems. I'd love to be able to use an iPhone to make mobile payments or get onto transit systems in Japan like you can with the Japanese domestic market garakei phones.

 

[RedOrchestra]

I'd love to be able to use an iPhone to make mobile payments or get onto transit systems in Japan like you can with the Japanese domestic market garakei phones.

Seldom do I learn anything on the MR forums, today was that rare exception - I learned both about garakei phones and the "Galapagos Syndrome" - thanks for your post.

 

[maxsix]

Apple needs to hurry before other competing systems prevail. Apple Pay isn't special, just a great way for Apple to grow its bottom line.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple needs to hurry before other competing systems prevail. Apple Pay isn't special, just a great way for Apple to grow its bottom line.

Or people will what?

People can only use Apple Pay on iPhones. There really isn't any competition from Android Pay or any other competing standard, and I don't see people ditching their phones just so they can use a mobile payment service.

 

[rohitp]

Its actually scary how many people nowadays use their phones to make purchases. I would never think about using my phone to make payments. Who is liable when your phone gets hacked and you lose money. It has been proved that phones (and tablets, laptops, etc.) can easily be hacked when connected to a public network (such as in a restaurant).
I still prefer my credit card or cash. At least when you get robbed your lose is limited to what you actually had in your pocket.

Most credit/debit cards carry the same protection on ApplePay.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/onlinebanking/mobile-wallet.go

Your credit and debit card information in Apple Pay is stored with enhanced security. And, if your iPhone is ever lost or stolen, you can use Apple’s Find My iPhone to quickly put your device in Lost Mode to lock or erase the device.

Plus, all Bank of America consumer credit and debit cards and small business debit cards are protected by our $0 Liability Guarantee and fraud monitoring.​

 

[maxsix]

Or people will what?

People can only use Apple Pay on iPhones.

Apple Pay being limited to iPhones reduces it's influence.

However that's the advantage other services have... that are well established in countries like China.

The broad consumer friendly nature of Android with smartphones ranging from modestly priced to high end flagships provide consumers with many very nice choices.


http://www.chinainternetwatch.com/9067/online-payment-mobile-apps/

 

[tmiw]

Or people will what?

People can only use Apple Pay on iPhones. There really isn't any competition from Android Pay or any other competing standard, and I don't see people ditching their phones just so they can use a mobile payment service.

I could see people maybe jumping to Samsung for the MST feature. That assumes people outside of MR and the other Apple/Android websites actually want to pay for stuff with a phone though, which doesn't seem to be the case thus far.

 

[kdarling]

Its actually scary how many people nowadays use their phones to make purchases. I would never think about using my phone to make payments. Who is liable when your phone gets hacked and you lose money. It has been proved that phones (and tablets, laptops, etc.) can easily be hacked when connected to a public network (such as in a restaurant).

If you're making a web based payment, then yes it's valid to worry about using a public network.

If you're using an actual payment app onboard the device, especially an NFC one that doesn't use the internet at all, then there's very little reason to worry. And you'd be covered if it ever got hacked, anyway.

I still prefer my credit card or cash. At least when you get robbed your lose is limited to what you actually had in your pocket.

As anyone with a credit card number that's been stolen knows, you're covered for everything as long as you report it promptly.

 

[TerrellAmerica]

Apple this morning elaborated on its plans to expand Apple Pay coverage and achieve its goal to deliver the mobile payment service to "every significant market" the company is involved in.

Currently Apple Pay is available in six countries, including the U.S., Canada, the U.K., Australia, and China, with plans already underway to bring the platform to Hong Kong and Spain. Earlier this week the service expanded its presence in Singapore to support five major banks and cover over 80 percent of cards, and VP of Apple Pay Jennifer Bailey says many more rollouts are on the way.

Speaking to TechCrunch, Bailey said that Apple is "working rapidly" in Asia and Europe to extend the service, stopping short of revealing which country would be next. But she did share some insight into what Apple is seeking when it assesses potential expansions.

"First, we look at the size of the market for Apple products," she said. "We also look at credit and debit card penetration, and [existing] contactless payment coverage.

"[But] when we bring Apple Pay to market even when contactless is low, it will grow -- it was 4 percent in the U.S. but is now 20 percent. We also work with our network partners, where we can utilize integration with Amex and Visa, to go to market quickly."

Commenting on China, Bailey said that the service's launch in February had been "really successful" and Apple was "seeing incredible user and developer reception", with a number of prominent consumer tech companies integrating the service into their apps to enable digital payments.

In March, it was reported that the service hit three million provisions inside the country in its first three days. The launch initially covered 12 bank locations across China and that number has now risen to 19. In the U.S., Apple Pay began in October 2014 with support across six bank locations. It now covers 2,500, and the company reportedly has designs on bringing the service to ATMs in the near future.

Apple is also focused on introducing loyalty programs to other markets, having completed its first rollouts in the U.S. Similarly, Apple is working to expand support for online and in-app payments in all markets.

Back in February, leaks suggested that France, Hong Kong, and Brazil are on Apple's expansion list for this year, while CEO Tim Cook hinted this week that India could also be set to get the mobile payment service soon.

Article Link: Apple 'Working Rapidly' to Bring Apple Pay to More Countries

[doublepost=1464535504][/doublepost]I wish Apple would bring Apple pay to more merchants I actually shop at, if they did id use it way more than I do.

 

[RedOrchestra]

[doublepost=1464535504][/doublepost]I wish Apple would bring Apple pay to more merchants I actually shop at, if they did id use it way more than I do.

Apple Pay is ready to go ... it's the merchants who are lagging in upgrading their terminals to contactless pay terminals.

 

[TerrellAmerica]

Apple Pay is ready to go ... it's the merchants who are lagging in upgrading their terminals to contactless pay terminals.

 

[visionar007]

The moment you realize you are in the minority it will become readily apparent why the uptake isn't as much as some would like. The majority of people don't have iPhones. A significant portion of those who do, can't use the feature. A lot of retailers don't want to invest in new terminals because their customers continue to buy anyway. A huge swath of the population is just getting used to chipped cards.

I'd love for both APays (Apple and Android) to be more accepted but beyond early adopters, nobody really cares that much. Neither retailers nor customers.
[doublepost=1464354668][/doublepost]


Yes it is. Here's some info on both that may help you get rid of some misconceptions you seem to have.
https://www.android.com/pay/

http://www.apple.com/apple-pay/

No, Android Pay is not as secure, because the card data (the key that is used to generate one time payment number and security code) is not stored in separate walled-off memory, at least they don't advertise it.

 

[AsherN]

Apple went about the release of Apple Pay incorrectly, in my opinion. They should've released it pretty quickly to countries that already have the widespread infrastructure in place to support NFC payments.

I think Apple thought they would be able to jumpstart a dramatic shift in the way businesses accept payments in the U.S. Unfortunately, that simply hasn't panned out yet. The infrastructure simply isn't in place for the vast majority of merchants and so many of them are dragging their feet on implementation.

It has nothing to do with Apple. Apple does not "release" Apple Pay in a country. They have to work with the banks. The banks need to modify the back end to accept the token.

The Catch-22 is that countries that have the NFC infrastructure ready already use secure NFC and Chip-an-PIN. There is less incentive to give Apple a cut. In the uS, fraud is much more of a problem, the price paid to Apple is offset by reduction in fraud. But the infrastructure is not there. Partly due to the shear number of independent banks, but also because in the US, the payment system is more often tied to the POS. Whereas in Canada for example, the payment terminals don't communicate much with the POS. Mostly they receive an amount and transmit back the approval. Those terminals are usually rented from the payment processors. There is no cost incurred by the merchant to change the terminal.

 

[RedOrchestra]

There is less incentive to give Apple a cut.

I'm betting Canadian banks negotiated a significantly lower transaction fee from Apple, than their US counterparts did, because of their years-ago rollout of Chip credit cards and Chip Debit cards.

 

[AsherN]

I'm sure of that.

 

[69Mustang]

No, Android Pay is not as secure, because the card data (the key that is used to generate one time payment number and security code) is not stored in separate walled-off memory, at least they don't advertise it.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Neither system uses your actual account information in a transaction. The tokens are, as you stated, one time use. Those tokens aren't stored by either system. Why would they be stored? 1 time use remember. Can't be used again. I think you may be thinking of the secure enclave (SE). If you are, you're thinking about it incorrectly. Afaik, the SE has nothing to do with CC info or Apple Pay beyond the fact that's it verifies your fingerprint from the Touch ID sensor. That verification allows access to the phone, or in the case of Apple Pay, allows purchases. In the off chance you were referring to the other SE - Secure Element, both systems use secure elements for their payment processes.

 

[macsmurf]

I still haven't figured out what makes Apple Pay useful. If the country does not have NFC terminals it's useless. If the country has an existing NFC infrastructure it seems like less of a hassle to use a contactless card which also happens to be cheap to replace and waterproof, so in that case it's pretty useless as well.

If you insist on using your phone, glue an NFC chip to it and you're done.

 

[kdarling]

No, Android Pay is not as secure, because the card data (the key that is used to generate one time payment number and security code) is not stored in separate walled-off memory, at least they don't advertise it.

Android Pay can use either a physical Secure Element (same as Google Wallet did back in 2011, or Apple Pay does now) or HCE (Host Card Emulation) with time limited tokens.

Either method is considered "secure enough" for payments by credit card companies, just as Apple Pay is considered "secure enough" even though it can be faked out with a copied fingerprint. And both can be defeated by someone shoulder surfing a PIN.

 

[RedOrchestra]

even though it can be faked out with a copied fingerprint

Worse than far-fetched, I dare say.

And as far as PINs go - hardly ever use mine anymore because, in Canada, we've had contactless pay for years and it's Tap & Go.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple went about the release of Apple Pay incorrectly, in my opinion. They should've released it pretty quickly to countries that already have the widespread infrastructure in place to support NFC payments.

I think Apple thought they would be able to jumpstart a dramatic shift in the way businesses accept payments in the U.S. Unfortunately, that simply hasn't panned out yet. The infrastructure simply isn't in place for the vast majority of merchants and so many of them are dragging their feet on implementation.

The way I see it, Apple is taking its own time to negotiate deals with the banks to ensure they get their own cut of the transaction fee. In the short run, this means a slower rollout, which can be frustrating for us users. In the long run, this means Apple profits more as the proper deals and agreements are in place.

Apple can probably afford to wait, see as to how the Android community is generally too disorganised to negotiate similar deals.

 

[kdarling]

I did not say that the Metric system equates intelligence; it is easier, and therefore will not scare kids away from STEM at the early ages of 7-14, as happens here even with very smart kids!

Easier, sure, but I don't recall being scared away by the English measurement system as a student. Why would I? You learn what you grow up with.

The way I see it, Apple is taking its own time to negotiate deals with the banks to ensure they get their own cut of the transaction fee. In the short run, this means a slower rollout, which can be frustrating for us users. In the long run, this means Apple profits more as the proper deals and agreements are in place.

I think in the long run, banks will be far more wary about any dealings with Apple.

The first US contracts supposedly run out in 2017, so it'll be interesting to hear what gets renegotiated.

Apple can probably afford to wait, see as to how the Android community is generally too disorganised to negotiate similar deals.

That's why I liked the original 2011 Google Wallet. It didn't require deals with banks. Any US based card worked.

 

[Abazigal]

That's why I liked the original 2011 Google Wallet. It didn't require deals with banks. Any US based card worked.

Except that carriers could, and did in fact block said feature, IIRC. I think that in the end, if you want this sort of features to work well, you have to be prepared to play nice with all the stakeholders involved. Trying to cut them out of the loop will just incentivise them to want to block your features or prioritise their own alternatives.

I think in the long run, banks will be far more wary about any dealings with Apple.

The first US contracts supposedly run out in 2017, so it'll be interesting to hear what gets renegotiated.

Well, short of a coordinated industry-wide boycott, the bank who opts not to support Apple Pay in the future may just find itself at a disadvantage compared to its competitors who still do. So nobody will dare make the first step, and in the end, nobody will.

That's the whole beauty here. Initially, Apple just needs to find one bank willing to accept Apple Pay, out of all the banks available. Competition is tough, and you know there will be at least 1 company ready to break ranks in a bid to gain an advantage of any sort. The rest will inevitably follow because they don't want to lose out in any way.

Here in Singapore, that was Amex. You had full page newspaper advertisements explaining what Apple Pay was and how it worked and how Amex was the only company supporting it at the time. Even the news covered this event, and there were in fact people willing to sign up for an Amex card just to be able to use Apple Pay. I think that got the other banks' attention, and now, my 5 local banks have all hopped on board, and I am a happy Apple Pay user myself.

I only have 1 debit card, but I resolve to use Apple Pay whenever possible. Whenever I want to pay for anything, the first thing I always ask is "Do you accept Apple Pay?". If anything, it helps proves the popularity and viability of such a service, which in turn encourages banks to continue to support the feature longer.

 

[kdarling]

Except that carriers could, and did in fact block said feature, IIRC.

Durn. You're right. Many of the US carriers were into Isis (Softpay), and blocked access to the Secure Element just like Apple does now to third parties.

I was actually thinking of the early 2014 version, which moved to HCE. Thanks!

I think that in the end, if you want this sort of features to work well, you have to be prepared to play nice with all the stakeholders involved. Trying to cut them out of the loop will just incentivise them to want to block your features or prioritise their own alternatives.

Yeah, it's like there's no perfect solution.

The main reason seems to be that everyone wants access to at least some purchase information. The merchants, the banks, even the phone manufacturers. Data is money these days.

Now, I don't see Apple Pay and Android Pay as competitors. Neither one runs on the other's OS, so there's no choice there. However, if either catches on in a region, it helps the other because of more publicity.

Samsung Pay for online purchases, though, I can see taking hold on iPhones in Korea, simply because more people are used to using a Samsung based solution.

 

[Abazigal]

Now, I don't see Apple Pay and Android Pay as competitors. Neither one runs on the other's OS, so there's no choice there. However, if either catches on in a region, it helps the other because of more publicity.

Am I right to assume that any terminal which accepts Apple pay will work with Android Pay as well? Or is there some tweaking that needs to be done on the side of the banks or businesses? If it's the former, then yeah, Apple Pay and Android Pay really have no reason to oppose each other.