Apple Working With TSMC to Develop MicroLED Panels for Future Apple Watch and Augmented Reality Wearable Device

[mtneer]

I think one needs to look at the TSMC component here as “near term AW display.” I think JD will be a supplier down the road. At least I’m hoping. Apple and JD have been working on this for over 5 years. It’s simply about how much Apple will continue to invest. Which is more beneficial to margins. Building up JD’s Fab or funding LG to do it.

I can’t see TSMC doing much more for the near term.

I wonder why would TSMC do anything for Apple under such circumstances. Having some experience with external vendors, they wouldn't do jack if they did not expect a big juicy production order at the end. And TSMC are'nt noobs, they would see through any such intentions through Apple's supply chain.

 

[Mansu944]

Since oled has burn-in issue...on glasses any tiny issue of that matter is seen..so microLED is the future for this and for anything, at least for the upcoming 20 years
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it has no cons from oled or lcd...only pros

$$$=con

 

[mazz0]

400 to 600% more? Apple needs to control this desire to become focused on being a luxury goods provider. I am starting to become concerned that Apple management is making a classic mistake. You look at YOUR paycheck and decide that everyone's looks like yours. This is a form of selection bias, where you become to believe that everyone is just like you. An Apple watch at +600% would be pushing $3000.00. For a smart watch that they expect you to replace every year? I don't see much of a market for that.

According to a quick Google, the current Apple Watch's display costs around $20, so you're only looking at a cost increase of $60-$100 to Apple. I suspect when they say top end they mean not the Sport.

 

[bunnicula]

Is this the same company that can’t come up with a new Mac mini?

It's not that they can't, obviously.
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They aren't talking about the entire cost of the watch increasing by 400-600%, just the display.

Inevitably this would likely be seen by the customer, but it would not be anywhere near as dramatic as you are saying. And that is assuming they aren't able to reduce cost elsewhere through manufacturing efficiencies.

I assume they would put it on the SS and leave the Sport alone at first, just to see if people are willing to pay more. If the SS sales slump and people jump on the Sport, they'll have their answer. Sport drives the sales, anyway.

 

[tipoo]

Probably going to follow their OLED ramp.

Smallest screen first, ship an apple watch with it, test how it ages etc. Then larger like the Touchbar, then iPhone and larger and larger.

Question is if Macbooks and iPads get OLEDs before the switch to microLED.

 

[deanthedev]

it has no cons from oled or lcd...only pros

Well, except for the difficulty to manufacture and the increased cost.

 

[citysnaps]

Is this the same company that can’t come up with a new Mac mini?

Can't? No.

It is the same company who chooses to not make an upgraded Mac Mini a priority - for a variety of reasons.

 

[harriska2]

This sounds pretty exciting, especially if, as I understand it, this could save battery power?

 

[Glideslope]

I wonder why would TSMC do anything for Apple under such circumstances. Having some experience with external vendors, they wouldn't do jack if they did not expect a big juicy production order at the end. And TSMC are'nt noobs, they would see through any such intentions through Apple's supply chain.

My thought would leans toward the old “All your eggs in one basket.” Apple is simoultaneously reduicing it’s dependence on singular vendors while developing proprietary hardware. TSMC will have enough business from the A, T, and S series of silicon. However, one can never be certain. I have a soft spot for Japan Display, and Apple has invested billions in them. Just hoping. Earthquakes in Japan don’t help JD either.

 

[RobertMartens]

"are said to be 400-600 percent higher than OLED panels"

You know, I'm sure they actually say "5-7 times" and not this pointless 400-600 percent. Or maybe you mean 4-6 times but just said it wrong.

 

[Kabeyun]

Please Apple, just don’t make glasses. It’s embarassing. No one wants glasses. You won’t be able to make one or even dozens of designs that everyone wants. People who wear glasses love their particular frames, and people who don’t wear glasses won’t start wearing them because there’s a screen in front of one eye. Maybe you can make something that attaches to glasses, and it might succeed if it’s subtle enough (glwt), but your Apple Glass will fail just like all others have and will.

 

[mazz0]

"are said to be 400-600 percent higher than OLED panels"

You know, I'm sure they actually say "5-7 times" and not this pointless 400-600 percent. Or maybe you mean 4-6 times but just said it wrong.

That's a good point: I assumed they meant 4-6 times, but yeah, technically they mean 5-7 don't they. Would have been much clearer if they'd just written that.

 

[Moonjumper]

Probably going to follow their OLED ramp.

Smallest screen first, ship an apple watch with it, test how it ages etc. Then larger like the Touchbar, then iPhone and larger and larger.

Question is if Macbooks and iPads get OLEDs before the switch to microLED.

It seems microLED is actually easier to make at large sizes as you don't have the pixel density issues. That is why the only product on the market (although extremely expensive and for commercial use) is the Sony CELDIS 16' (yes feet, not inches) screen. And why Samsung showed their prototype microLED screen at 146".

 

[BitsnPieces]

IMHO, Apple just needs to build a versatile 'screen' - something of an object that blends into my home neatly like a piece of furniture and not scream 'tech-appliance'. I don't need a TV with a tuner and half-smart features and most computer monitors a too bulky for a flush wall mount ... all I need is an oversized 30-40inch iPad thing I could prop up on my desk to work, hang on a wall for the family to watch TV or enjoy a photo slideshow, and just be overall much more elegant and less intrusive (Samsungs the Frame was a good idea, but technically not sufficiently solved and looked unconvincing). Sure they would make it wireless or something and they could and lock you into their content eco system ... but that's the sort of gap that no product on the market yet has filled well, a larger than laptop type of surface I can project my content on for collaborative viewing but designed well enough that it 'disappears' when not in use.

I see zero benefit from apple rolling out an actual Television set at this point. I think the market has changed enough, that instead of supplying a device like a TV, they're better off providing content.

Margins on TVs are razor thin, and Apple has a reputation of being over-priced, so its to see them making a dent in that product category.

 

[ChrisCW11]

They have worked, often, with TSMC in the past and it usually never works out for some reason often due to quantity or quality issues, neither Apple can afford to have problems with.

Gook luck to them, but I think Apple will still be using Samsung or LG parts in the future. I mean they don't even use Sharp which is owned by Foxconn, their manufacturing partner.

 

[tipoo]

It seems microLED is actually easier to make at large sizes as you don't have the pixel density issues. That is why the only product on the market (although extremely expensive and for commercial use) is the Sony CELDIS 16' (yes feet, not inches) screen. And why Samsung showed their prototype microLED screen at 146".

That's if the pixel density was lower.

The base iPhone 8 for instance has the same pixel density of the Watch, while being larger, so it would be no easier for being larger. The iPads do have a bit lower PPI though. Where it would fall on the difficulty of size vs difficulty of PPI curve for microLED I don't know.

 

[shansoft]

It just won't die, the hoary "we cracked it" TV rumor appears yet again, taking its place right next to the car and the transdermal glucose sensor rumors.
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Yes, and so does any LED driven as hard as these tiny microleds. LEDs of all types age much faster at high temperature and the consequence is their light output decreases -- aka "burn in". The smaller the LED, the hotter it becomes because heat cannot be easily dissipated.

I have not seen a single proper LED panel have burn-in issue, except image retention that will goes away on its own, and ONLY on LG IPS Panels.

 

[Piggie]

They aren't talking about the entire cost of the watch increasing by 400-600%, just the display.

Inevitably this would likely be seen by the customer, but it would not be anywhere near as dramatic as you are saying. And that is assuming they aren't able to reduce cost elsewhere through manufacturing efficiencies.

Seems like you misunderstood my post.

If you look, I quoted someone who WAS saying the device would cost that much more.
I was pointing out exactly what you said. It's just one item, and nothing to do with the overall cost of the final device

 

[Eric5h5]

I have not seen a single proper LED panel have burn-in issue, except image retention that will goes away on its own, and ONLY on LG IPS Panels.

No, that's an entirely different thing. Those are LCD screens, not LED. The LEDs in that case are for the backlighting only (as opposed to the CFL backlighting that LCD panels used to have). With microLED and OLED, the pixels themselves are made from tiny LEDs, so there is no backlighting.

--Eric

 

[grkm3]

Samsung is already ahead of both of them and showed off a working huge micro led screen at ces.

 

[Baymowe335]

I see zero benefit from apple rolling out an actual Television set at this point. I think the market has changed enough, that instead of supplying a device like a TV, they're better off providing content.

Margins on TVs are razor thin, and Apple has a reputation of being over-priced, so its to see them making a dent in that product category.

Apple also has a reputation for quality products, support, and customer loyalty. Meaning - you get something for your money and people keep confirming it by buying another Apple device. "Overpriced" products don't sell almost 300M units annually. People see value in them.

I'd say Samsung makes "overpriced" products more so than Apple. The Note is close to $1,000 and runs Android.

 

[Moonjumper]

That's if the pixel density was lower.

The base iPhone 8 for instance has the same pixel density of the Watch, while being larger, so it would be no easier for being larger. The iPads do have a bit lower PPI though. Where it would fall on the difficulty of size vs difficulty of PPI curve for microLED I don't know.

I was thinking they might jump to MBP, iMac, or standalone monitors. All of which are likely to have much lower PPI.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Samsung is already ahead of both of them and showed off a working huge micro led screen at ces.

MicroLED on a $20,000 150” TV is a completely different product from a high resolution $150 Apple Watch screen at 300ppi. The VR screen will have to be much higher resolution, 1,000ppi or so.

 

[harriska2]

Please Apple, just don’t make glasses. It’s embarassing. No one wants glasses. You won’t be able to make one or even dozens of designs that everyone wants. People who wear glasses love their particular frames, and people who don’t wear glasses won’t start wearing them because there’s a screen in front of one eye. Maybe you can make something that attaches to glasses, and it might succeed if it’s subtle enough (glwt), but your Apple Glass will fail just like all others have and will.

If done well I would definitely consider the glasses, especially if it can replace the watch, they don’t look horrid, have reasonable 1-2 day easy wireless charging, come with a prescription option, and don’t cost more than $400.

 

[kdarling]

This sounds pretty exciting, especially if, as I understand it, this could save battery power?

A lot of comparison articles haven't been updated in a while.

The difference between OLED and IOLED (inorganic, aka micro) was much larger a few years ago.

Since then OLED has continued to advance in both its brightness and lower power consumption. Not to mention constantly lowering cost.