Apple Would Rather Pay Up to €50 Million in Fines Than Address 'Gatekeeper' App Store Behavior, Says EU Chief

[bwillwall]

I don't get it.

They made it so ONLY dating apps are able to circumvent in-app-purchase exclusivity AND Apple still gets their cut either way. There is no universe this regulation makes any sense and it really does absolutely nothing for addressing Apple as a "gatekeeper".

 

[BaldiMac]

Why does Apple have to spend a ton of money to just not reject apps that allow other payment methods? They could start doing that literally right now if they wanted to.

Apple needs to either spend money to collect their commission on third-party IAPs or forgo that commission. Either choice is costing Apple money.

 

[turbineseaplane]

But either way, I really don't get why a company has to change the thing that they built and developed and grew to such a high standard.

Because all companies have to operate within the rules of the jurisdictions.
Those rules can always change.

Folks -- Companies are not "above the law".

If you are in favor of that - be really darned careful, because it's not long before they start doing stuff that doesn't suit you, even if they haven't yet.

 

[siddavis]

I think apple will soon find out that they can’t ignore the law for too long, and that if the EU intervenes they’ll have to do a lot more than the Dutch government is asking. Some food for thought: the EU is the largest single market in the world, and the scope of the EU investigation is the whole App Store and not just dating apps. Furthermore, the fines EU can apply are far higher, and they can be more than monetary. In extreme cases apple could be banned from operating.

Pretty sure it’s China.

Pretty sure it's the United States. And it's not even close.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Pretty sure it's the United States. And it's not even close.

Do you have any good links on that?

Everything I can find seems to group "the Americas" (as in, North, Central and South) as one entity.

 

[BaldiMac]

Do you have a link on that?

Everything I can find seems to group "the Americas" as one entity.

Pretty sure it's the United States. And it's not even close.

Yep!

List of largest consumer markets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[usagora]

No, that is the actions of someone who believes they are above the law.

No, if they thought they were above the law, they would refuse to pay the fine.

 

[CWallace]

Monetary fines are chump change for Apple.

If the Dutch want to get serious, they can ban sales.

That's the best for both sides. Dutch government ban Apple sales. And Apple makes a complete exit from the Dutch market, period. A complete divorce, as they obviously cannot come to terms.

As I have heard it explained on a podcast ( so take it with as many grains of salt as you would like ), that should Apple unilaterally withdraw from the Dutch market, it would trigger EU clauses that would effectively result in them being compelled to withdraw from the entire EU market.

 

[I7guy]

Because all companies have to operate within the rules of the jurisdictions.
Those rules can always change.

Folks -- Companies are not "above the law".

If you are in favor of that - be really darned careful, because it's not long before they start doing stuff that doesn't suit you, even if they haven't yet.

Companies have to follow the law, but when the laws blow like sand in the wind it’s not so easy to do… and that’s what is going on here….imo.

 

[boss.king]

Except the law we are talking about only applies to corporations with dominant market power. Not too many poor people getting targeted for prosecution under that one.

It wasn't my bad analogy.

There is a legitimate business reason. Apple doesn't want to distribute a app with third-party payment code outside the country where it is required.

Isn't the app store region locked?

Conversely, there is no reason for the ACM to force Apple to distribute the third-party payment code outside their jurisdiction.

There are reasons. It's a less confusing experience for users and less burdensome on developers (by which I mean the whole company, not literally just the people coding the app).

Is it a significant burden to compile an app and upload it twice? I'd say no. Developers do it all the time.

Do you think you just hit compile and the rest happens by magic? There are other steps involved in dealing with the App Store, and even more so under Apple's proposed implementation of this system.

 

[usagora]

If the only thing stopping you from breaking a law is whether you can afford the penalty, then yes, that is thinking you're above that law.

Again, no. The law states that if you speed, you owe a certain fine. If you submit to that fine, then you are submitting to the law, not thinking you're above it. If you thought you were above it, you'd refuse to pay the fine.

 

[CWallace]

Isn't the app store region locked?

Even if it is, if the binary in every App Store has Third Party In-App Purchase payment processing functionality, then it makes it easier for other countries to force Apple to turn that functionality on at a future date.

Apple does not want to make it easy, so they are requiring a separate binary for the Dutch App Store that has that functionality and one for every other App Store that does not.

Yes, one imagines that it would be easy enough to just offer the "Dutch binary" in other App Stores where the law allows TPIAPP, but I expect Apple has a plan there, as well, to require a separate binary in every App Store that allows TPIAPP to make it as inconvenient as they can for developers so developers will not push for TPIAPP.

 

[Bodhitree]

You have to see this as the authorities testing the waters. Im sure we will see EU and US legislation on this eventually.

 

[usagora]

I think you overestimate people’s attachment to iPhones. People in Europe have little sympathy for greedy corporations that try to circumvent the law. You might find that owning an iPhone might become very low on most people priority list if apple’s bad behaviour continues.

I don't think the average American or European consumer gives a rat's behind about these matters. They just want the tech.

 

[BaldiMac]

Isn't the app store region locked?

That's the point. Apple wants the version with third-party payments as a separate app that is only available in the Netherlands. You and the ACM were arguing that Apple cannot require a separate version.

There are reasons. It's a less confusing experience for users

What consumer confusion? They download or update the app. It now has third-party payments. Just like the developer intended.

and less burdensome on developers (by which I mean the whole company, not literally just the people coding the app).

What burden? It's literally just an extra compile and upload. A few minutes of developer time (plus CPU time to compile the app in the background) every few weeks when you update the app.

Do you think you just hit compile and the rest happens by magic? There are other steps involved in dealing with the App Store, and even more so under Apple's proposed implementation of this system.

Pretty much. You compile the app. You upload it for review.

 

[usagora]

Public opinion of the ACM also drops lower and lower.

And I'd imagine much more so.

 

[siddavis]

Seems like there’s an opening here for an enterprising consortium of member states to band together and create an innovation zone specifically for the creation of a Europhone reference platform. Heavily subsidize is so that EU citizens buy fewer iPhones (I mean, the actual market for iPhones in the EU is incredibly tiny, but anyway), and they can direct it and it’s store just like any other government run entity.

It’s either that or continue this quest to firm up the prominence of the Google and Apple as the only solutions EVER possible in the EU.

Cool, you could call it RIM or Nokia or something like that.

 

[siddavis]

If Apple has to charge a fee per transaction it should be the lowest viable amount possible, a maintenance fee. Lower than 3rd parties. This would remove the stench of monopolistic behaviour. 30% per transaction is ridiculous.

Why?

 

[boss.king]

That's the point. Apple wants the version with third-party payments as a separate app that is only available in the Netherlands. You and the ACM were arguing that Apple cannot require a separate version.

I'm pretty sure Apple wants it as a second version of that app within that region (i.e. in the Netherlands store, you would have an Apple-payment version of Tinder and a non-Apple-payment version of Tinder).

What consumer confusion? They download or update the app. It now has third-party payments. Just like the developer intended.

See the above.

What burden? It's literally just an extra compile and upload. A few minutes of developer time (plus CPU time to compile the app in the background) every few weeks when you update the app.

See the above.

Pretty much. You compile the app. You upload it for review.

A lot of prominent devs tell a very different story.

 

[BaldiMac]

Why?

Exactly. And why do people always neglect to mention that 98% of developers pay 15% (not 30%).

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Wealth breeds arrogance behaviour.

Is that arrogant behavior though? I mean, he’s doing his civic duty and paying the fines and I would imagine the local authorities quite like the money coming in. They allow him to continue doing it rather than impounding the car, yes?

To me, arrogant would be more like not paying the fine and assuming nothing will be done.

 

[BaldiMac]

I'm pretty sure Apple wants it as a second version of that app within that region (i.e. in the Netherlands store, you would have an Apple-payment version of Tinder and a non-Apple-payment version of Tinder).

Nope. Apple's proposal was that you have to choose between Apple's IAP, third-party IAP, or outside links for payment.

A lot of prominent devs tell a very different story.

Feel free to link. You certainly have to do more work to submit a new app or update. But you are doing that work anyway. I'm talking about the extra work required to upload a separate binary to the Dutch App Store which is negligible.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The ACM has added an arbitrary element on top of the original issue: requiring a single SKU. Can the ACM really make much of an argument that multiple SKUs are harmful to developers or consumers? It's standard practice in the business.

From my reading, even this part appeared to be a way to implement the change “now-ish” since the App Store isn’t configured to work the way the ACM wants it to work (not surprising, they’ve never ran a digital storefront) In the future it’s possible that they COULD have one app with the Netherlands getting their version automatically (Apple’s bitcode is a powerful technology) but, ACM wanted changes NOW and any app changes that include worldwide “legal” or “financial” ramifications are never done quickly.

 

[siddavis]

Do you have any good links on that?

Everything I can find seems to group "the Americas" (as in, North, Central and South) as one entity.

BaldiMac provided a link.
A market is not defined by land mass, or sheer population, but by buying power and willingness. Again, it's not even close.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Have fun being re-elected if you're the person stopping people from getting an iPhone.

iPhone sales there are so low, it wouldn’t matter. It really makes you wonder why they’re going after a bit player in the market.