ApplePay, London Tube & Contactless payments

0970373

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Just wondering if any US folks who travel to London have tried to use ApplePay for the tube? I'm heading over for work next month so I was going to top up my Oyster when I noticed that I could add a contactless card now. Nice! A little further digging led me to read this:

Other contactless payment methods
Currently, some mobile payment applications, key fobs, wristbands, payment stickers and tags are accepted:

Mobile phones with an American Express, Maestro, MasterCard or Visa contactless payment application
I do have my AMEX set up as my contactless card on the TFL site now but I'd really love to use ApplePay if that's at all possible. Let me know if you've tried and the results!
 

Hustler1337

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Dec 23, 2010
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I didn't even know Apple Pay works on the tube or buses. I hope TFL are quick to implement :apple: Pay on their transport network once it goes live in the UK, it would save carrying around that pesky Oyster Card in addition to your other essentials.
 

john500y2k

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Feb 28, 2013
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I hope TFL are quick to implement :apple: Pay on their transport network once it goes live in the UK,

I don't think tfl will have to do anything as they have contactless all set up. Even when they just said Oyster cards would be accepted contactless cards still worked as there where a huge number of complaints about being double charged when someone had both cards next to each other.

I really think it is just a case of Apple flipping the switch on for the uk. And obviously U.K. Banks singing up to be included.
 

JayLenochiniMac

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I really think it is just a case of Apple flipping the switch on for the uk. And obviously U.K. Banks singing up to be included.
No, I don't think that's correct as you still need a U.S.-based card from a supported bank. It should in theory work with any NFC as long as it supports tokenization so it's not a case of Apple flipping the switch.
 

Menel

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Aug 4, 2011
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Just wondering if any US folks who travel to London have tried to use ApplePay for the tube? I'm heading over for work next month so I was going to top up my Oyster when I noticed that I could add a contactless card now. Nice! A little further digging led me to read this:



I do have my AMEX set up as my contactless card on the TFL site now but I'd really love to use ApplePay if that's at all possible. Let me know if you've tried and the results!
Here:

Contactless Cards issued outside the UK
Most contactless payment cards issued outside the UK can be used to buy tickets or top up an Oyster card at touchscreen ticket machines at Tube, DLR and London Overground stations, at ticket offices, and Travel Information Centres, even if they can't be used for contactless travel.
You can use here, at ticket machines.

You can't use ApplyPay as your Oyster card, but you can use it to buy and reload your oyster card at ticket machines.

Or at least that's how I ready it. Subscribing for curiosity sake.
 

Menel

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Aug 4, 2011
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googled, found this

was pretty optimistic that it would Just Work however a tweet from Amy Worrall dampened my enthusiasm. When you use a PAYG (pay-as-you-go) Oyster card on the TFL network, it has daily spending caps that ensures you never spend more than an equivalent daily travelcard. TFL also implements this same cap if you use a contactless payment card which raises the question - how do TFL know how much you've spent?

The only obvious answer is - they know enough about the card you paid with to track your spending. There is further evidence of this - if you sign up for an online account and register your payment card, you can track your journey history just like you can with an Oyster card. Also, ticket inspectors can ask you to touch your payment card against their reader to check that you've paid for your journey.

In all likelihood, TFL use your credit card number to link your purchases although it could be some other kind of unique, yet constant value associated with your card. This makes it fundamentally incompatible with the way Apple Pay works - Apple Pay uses secure, one-time only payment tokens that are generated by a secure chip on the device in conjunction with TouchID for authorization. Apple made a big deal about the security of the system and the fact that neither Apple or retailers will be able to track who you are and what you've purchased.
Sounds like ApplePay's security makes it incompatible with the Tube.
 

john500y2k

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Feb 28, 2013
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Good find Menel. Didn't think about the ticket inspector can see that one causing some issues.
 

Arran

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Mar 7, 2008
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Just wondering if any US folks who travel to London have tried to use ApplePay for the tube? I'm heading over for work next month so I was going to top up my Oyster when I noticed that I could add a contactless card now. Nice! A little further digging led me to read this:



I do have my AMEX set up as my contactless card on the TFL site now but I'd really love to use ApplePay if that's at all possible. Let me know if you've tried and the results!
The Tube can be a nightmarish crush. I'm not sure I'd want to have my $900 phone out in hand going through the gates. I prefer the indestructibility and lower value of an Oyster.
 

iGeek2014

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The Tube can be a nightmarish crush. I'm not sure I'd want to have my $900 phone out in hand going through the gates. I prefer the indestructibility and lower value of an Oyster.
Same here.

Not only that but if the finger print sensor was acting up you'd be there a while at the gates trying to tap in and out of your journey.

And given the impatience of some people you wouldn't go too well, haha!!
 

0970373

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The Tube can be a nightmarish crush. I'm not sure I'd want to have my $900 phone out in hand going through the gates. I prefer the indestructibility and lower value of an Oyster.
I've thought about this. If I do try it out there on my next trip, it would be during non-peak hours when there aren't many people around. I'm curious, not stupid. lol. Also, I'm a New Yorker so I know all about that subway rush. ;)

Thanks for all your responses. Doesn't look like anyone has tried this yet. I'll try if I can when I'm there just to see what happens either way.

----------

Here:

You can use here, at ticket machines.

You can't use ApplyPay as your Oyster card, but you can use it to buy and reload your oyster card at ticket machines.

Or at least that's how I ready it. Subscribing for curiosity sake.
You can use AMEX cards with a chip in it:

The table below shows which cards issued outside the UK are accepted for contactless travel on bus, Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and most National Rail services in London.


American Express (AMEX)
All American Express contactless payment cards.


----------

googled, found this



Sounds like ApplePay's security makes it incompatible with the Tube.
That explanation does make sense. While it wouldn't do you much good for daily/weekly caps, I'm still just curious if it would work.
 

JayLenochiniMac

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Nov 7, 2007
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googled, found this



Sounds like ApplePay's security makes it incompatible with the Tube.
There's still a unique yet constant number when using Apple Pay in the form of Device Account Number. The DAN doesn't change each time you use a particular credit card so I wonder if it'll still work?
 

Menel

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Aug 4, 2011
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There's still a unique yet constant number when using Apple Pay in the form of Device Account Number. The DAN doesn't change each time you use a particular credit card so I wonder if it'll still work?
The DAN isnt transmitted.

The DAN is used as the basis to form the time based one time tokens.
 
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0970373

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Resurrecting this old thread to see if anyone had any updates. That work trip to London ended up not happening (we went to Dublin instead). But I am going next month for sure for vacation so curious if any US travelers have tried it yet.

In any case, I hope my very old Oyster card still works so I can use up the balance on it. :)
 

tmiw

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Jun 26, 2007
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On the FlyerTalk forums we concluded that Apple Pay will work for the turnstiles on the Underground but only if you use a MasterCard. Apparently that's the only card type that will transmit the necessary information to make those work. If you authenticate with Touch ID as you're walking towards them (open Passbook, bring up the card and put finger/thumb on button) it will keep the line moving and you won't inconvenience the people behind you.

Hope this helps! :)
 
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0970373

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On the FlyerTalk forums we concluded that Apple Pay will work for the turnstiles on the Underground but only if you use a MasterCard. Apparently that's the only card type that will transmit the necessary information to make those work. If you authenticate with Touch ID as you're walking towards them (open Passbook, bring up the card and put finger/thumb on button) it will keep the line moving and you won't inconvenience the people behind you.

Hope this helps! :)
I found my Oyster card and there was still quite a bit on it so I didn't try ApplePay on this trip but I will add my MasterCard to my Contactless Cards list for next time! Or do you not even need to bother since it's in ApplePay? Just trying to figure out how the daily cap would work on it.

Also, I'm on FT as well and would love the link to this thread if you have it handy. :)
 

tmiw

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I found my Oyster card and there was still quite a bit on it so I didn't try ApplePay on this trip but I will add my MasterCard to my Contactless Cards list for next time! Or do you not even need to bother since it's in ApplePay? Just trying to figure out how the daily cap would work on it.

Also, I'm on FT as well and would love the link to this thread if you have it handy. :)
Relevant FlyerTalk thread (within the last 5-10 pages of it or so IIRC, I forget where exactly)

The daily cap is based on the DAN/PAN of the card so as long as you tap in/out with the same device you should be good.
 
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kdarling

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The Device Account Number is static. It's the other authentication codes that go with it, that are dynamic.

According to a recent TfL news release, Americans have been using Apple Pay on the transport system for some time now.

As others have noted though, make sure you're ready to go fast if it's rush hour. And try not to damage your new Watch tapping it in a hurry :)
 
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0970373

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It was just a matter of time, I guess. So Oyster support is becoming "official" which is super exciting. Hoping US transit follows. I travel to Chicago and have a Ventra card and hope they implement it there in the future. Also, hopefully within the next millennia, the NY MTA will move to contactless cards as well and utilize NFC tech.