ApplePay question

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by slenpree, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. slenpree, Nov 24, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014

    slenpree macrumors 6502a

    slenpree

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Location:
    UK
    #1
    Hi,

    This is a question to all those in the US using ApplePay. Can you add a credit/debit card which does not necessarily have NFC already on it ? or does the card being added to passbook need to have NFC already on the physical card? A picture of an american express green card (doesn't have a chip ?) in passbook suggests the former.

    I'm interested because in the UK some banks issue NFC/Contactless credit cards but not NFC/Contactless debit cards and vice versa.

    Jonny
     
  2. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

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    #2
    All you need is a simple credit card that has numbers on the front.
     
  3. inkyoto macrumors regular

    inkyoto

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    #3
    You don't even need that. Chase Sapphire cards have numbers on the back and they work too. OP: you can use it with virtually any supported credit card. It seems to depend on your bank. See here:

    http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT6288
     
  4. slenpree thread starter macrumors 6502a

    slenpree

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
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    UK
    #4
    thanks for the quick replies. Looks like the iPhone is in itself an NFC credit card -just being linked back to the bank - so only minimal support is required from the bank. Kind of makes me wonder why Apple Pay has not launched in the UK yet as we have NFC everywhere!
     
  5. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

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    #5
    The card has to have numbers on it, most commonly they are on the front. The numbers being on the front or back doesn't matter so long as they are a valid credit card number from a supported bank.
     
  6. Chatter macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    inkyoto is correct. If your bank supports it, you can use it. Doesnt matter what the physical card looks like.
     
  7. iapplelove macrumors 68040

    iapplelove

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    Location:
    East Coast USA
    #7
    op to answer your question simply as possible, it does not matter if the physical card is equipt with a chip or not. As long as the bank supports apple pay the card will be compatible.
     
  8. slenpree, Nov 24, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014

    slenpree thread starter macrumors 6502a

    slenpree

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Location:
    UK
    #8
    cool! has anyone from the US tried ApplePay to withdraw cash from a cash machine in spain yet ? (my understanding is that once the card is setup in passbook it can be used with any NFC terminal in the world).

    La Caixa Banko in spain have introduced NFC/Contactless ATM's (especially in mallorca) and Lloyds in the UK are trialling it.
    http://techoven.com/2014/04/lloyds-bank-rolling-out-contactless-atms-in-the-uk-857

    Jonny
     
  9. wxman2003 Suspended

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    #9
    I am hoping that banks will start issuing virtual credit cards that would be used exclusively with NFC capable devices. That way if your wallet was lost or stolen, you still had another form of payment readily available without having to wait for your bank to reissue new credit cards.
     
  10. slenpree thread starter macrumors 6502a

    slenpree

    Joined:
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    #10
    but could you imagine getting it to your iPhone securely, most ordinary people haven't got S/MIME setup for secure e-mail. Besides I believe the way that Apple Pay works is that the phone has it's unique card number and is actually an NFC credit card itself - being linked back to your banks plastic card (NFC or not).

    Jonny
     
  11. Rigby macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    #11
    That's pretty much exactly what Apple Pay does. The Device Account Number is a virtual credit card number that is different from the number of the physical card, but linked to the same account.

    I'm currently in the process of getting one of my Chase cards replaced due to a fraudulent charge. The old card is now blocked and the new one in the mail. Interestingly, the card still works in Apple Pay. The virtual card in Passbook was automatically updated (I can now see the last 4 digits of the new credit card number in Passbook). It's all very seemless. I just wish Apple Pay was more widely accepted in the US ...
     
  12. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #12
    Apple Pay isn't supported for that. Currently it's restricted to in-store and in-app purchases. I'm hoping in the future Apple will open up NFC to third-party bank apps so we can use it to withdraw cash from supported ATMs using TouchID.
     
  13. Rigby macrumors 601

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    #13
    It's completely up to the bank if they want to support ATM withdrawals with the current system. No need for new apps. Remember that a phone with Apple Pay looks no different from a regular contactless RFID credit card to the reader. So if a bank's ATMs support contactless cards, they can also be configured to work with Apple Pay.
     
  14. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #14
    Source? I read that Apple isn't currently allowing NFC to be used for any purposes other than Apple Pay. They get a cut from the bank each time Apple Pay transaction is made. Nothing has been negotiated for ATM withdrawal purposes.
     
  15. Rigby macrumors 601

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    #15
    And Apple Pay means that the phone acts like a standard contactless payment card. That's why it works with the existing payment terminals that were deployed long before Apple Pay came along. There is no technical reason why it wouldn't also work with an contactless-enabled ATM.
    That is not a technical issue.
     
  16. deeddawg macrumors 604

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    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #16
    There's a lot more to it than that, in fact most of the burden falls on the card issuer (bank) in that they have to support EMV Tokenisation at the back end.

    Here's a decent write-up: http://letstalkpayments.com/apple-pay-tokenization-really-emvco-standard/
     
  17. kbutler84 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    #17
    Sorry to hijack the thread, but I also have an apple pay question. I went to a car wash this morning that accepts NFC payments. Held my iphone up and passbook opened and scanned by fingerprint successfully. However, the transactions did not complete (this happened twice) because the system didn't print a receipt or finish the transaction. I had to manually swipe my card for it to do so. But, in passbook it shows a transaction in the location. I checked my bank account and there is only one charge (presumable the one from swiping my card). Did I do something wrong?
     
  18. slenpree thread starter macrumors 6502a

    slenpree

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    #18
    interesting, so with a standard NFC card a cash machine would probably work but the tokenisation of the iPhone's NFC card might through the cash machine off if unsupported.
     
  19. deeddawg macrumors 604

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    US
    #19
    No, seems like you did everything fine. Some POS systems seem to mess things up even when it'd otherwise work fine. Typically if there's a live NFC terminal it should work, but sometimes there's a weirdness in the POS setup that causes it to fail -- which is what it seems you encountered.

    As to the transaction showing up, depends on your institution. Amex for example is popping up transactions made elsewhere, even online payments. Kind of neat actually, seeing an immediate notification when a charge is made to my card.
     
  20. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #20
    I actually found this annoying after a while, enough that I turned it off entirely. I'd prefer pop-up notifications only when I use Apple Pay, but getting pop-ups on my phone every single time I use my Amex is redundant when I get confirmations by other means. I'll turn it back on when a future iOS update enables alerts for Apple Pay and no alerts elsewhere.
     
  21. Rigby macrumors 601

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    #21
    Yes. But the banks that support Apple Pay could easily implement this in their backend for ATM withdrawals. Fundamentally an ATM withdrawal is not much different from a debit card transaction, which already works with Apple Pay today (and you can actually get cash back using Apple Pay with a debit card at supporting stores). You'd have to enter your PIN though just like you would using the physical card.

    BTW, contactless payment cards don't use NFC but RFID. While NFC is backwards compatible with RFID, it's not the same (NFC is a more complex protocol that allows for bidirectional communication, while RFID is one-way only).
     
  22. slenpree thread starter macrumors 6502a

    slenpree

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    Apr 13, 2010
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    #22
    Thanks for confirming, the fact that you can already get cashback with a debit card on ApplePay is really promising. I'm thinking of a situation whereby a POS isn't working with ApplePay but you ask the cashier to hold the items while you get some cash out via a nearby ATM and the ATM supports ApplyPay/NFC. I suppose this should also make ATM's more secure (not having to insert a card with a magnetic strip that can be cloned).

    Jonny
     
  23. JayLenochiniMac macrumors G5

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    #23
    I agree. I was thinking more in terms of financial issue. Apple being Apple, will they want a cut from the ATM fees for using Apple Pay to withdraw cash from ATMs? After all, Apple gets a cut from transaction fees that the bank already charges the merchant for using Apple Pay in stores. Why not ATMs as well given that tokenization/TouchID will reduce the possibility of unauthorized withdrawals and nothing has been negotiated for this yet? Otherwise, I agree the ATM industry should embrace Apple Pay.
     
  24. deeddawg macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    US
    #24
    I can see where that could happen. I use another card more often than either of my amex cards so it hasn't been frequent enough to become annoying.

    What would be neat is the ability to set threshold values for the notification; e.g. don't bother me for stuff under $100 or whatever I set.
     

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